Charlene Wittstock Current Events 8 : Jan.2007 - May 2007

[hibou]

you may not have seen the pictures, but caro and pierre look miserable. They invited her because if would have looked rude and not polite for one of them to be in SA and not invite charlene since she lives there. the dress is totally inapropriate for the event and isn't for someone shaped like charlene. To me it looks like a night gown. this spero vilotti is wasting her money.
the sad part is that she doesn't have fashion sense herself, nor sense of ridiculous.
jaya, you had a gemm of a post. Totally agree

I so agree, jaya's first post was brilliant. I thought Caroline looked very poised considering the situation - She has learned from her Mother. it is hard to say why she was there but it totally distracted from the charity Caroline was trying to promote.

 

[pinklady1991]

Spero Villioti undresses the woman and he does not dress her.The green pseudo brocade evening dress worn by Miss Wittstock to the Ball had a slit up the front of the dress{Brooke Astor's worst nightmare}and was halter which again compacts the chest.Lastly I noticed that Miss Wittstock did not wear stockings either to the Ball in Monaco or to the Amade function although I am certain an air conditioner must have been on nonetheless.So much for finishing schools and the rules of attire that are in accordance with propriety.I did not like the Villioti dress on Miss Wittstock but that is I. JMO.

Actually, it's mid summer in SA so I don't blame her for not wearing hosiery...in fact, it's become very common for women not to wear it all. Current styles show too much skin and shoes that are sandals -- hosiery would have been a bigger faux pas. I do admit, however, that the style doesn't really flatter Charlene much. She needs to learn how to balance her broad shoulders with narrow hips and use a fuller cut skirt and strapless (but not tasteless).

I think that women need to rediscover that the secret to dressing "sexy" is to show enough to get a man's attention but cover enough to remain a mystery. (That and make sure the style and fit suit you. It's all about proportion.)

 

[Jaya]

Actually, it's mid summer in SA so I don't blame her for not wearing hosiery...in fact, it's become very common for women not to wear it all. Current styles show too much skin and shoes that are sandals -- hosiery would have been a bigger faux pas. I do admit, however, that the style doesn't really flatter Charlene much. She needs to learn how to balance her broad shoulders with narrow hips and use a fuller cut skirt and strapless (but not tasteless).

I think that women need to rediscover that the secret to dressing "sexy" is to show enough to get a man's attention but cover enough to remain a mystery. (That and make sure the style and fit suit you. It's all about proportion.)

hello pinklady,
Yes Miss Wittstock needs to balance her androgynous anatomy within the concept of attire.Miss Wittstock has left no mystery for me personally. I do not think the lady may lead by example.
As far as hosiery it is within the Savoire Faire and the Savoire Vivre; the rules of good conduct and graduating finishing school to wear hosiery except under very extenuating circumstances.[tropical India or Mauritius] However nowadays young ladies tend not to wear their panties either . Or they place their panties around their shoulders feigning confusion.Happily they do not get past me if I have a function. Hosiery and undergarments are imperatives not only for propriety but not to get a chill.
"Sexy" is for the boudoir and not the salon. It is a feeling more than a particular manner or mode of dressing.Princess Grace taught us that.She was very sexy all covered up and Hitchcock has attested to it. Better yet Cary Grant attested to it too and one never disagress with the impecccably sexy Cary.JMO

It seems that not only albert but the rest of his family like charlene and don't seem to judge her on her fashion sense. They obviously know her better than us who only read about her .
If she beomes engaged they will change her to the perfectly styled princess.

We are not just alluding to Miss Wittstock's "fashion sensibility" . The gown is a para -signifier of other things and attributes the lady displays through her dress sense. If you read Heraclitus the dress is unrelated to fashion... the sun is unrelated to sunniness;it is a giveaway,a harbinger, for other things and while some are striving to evaluate; some are seeking to ascertain... If the Grimaldis choose to be blind to this and blind to lack of academic qualification and blind to correct comportment and blind to undignified postures then they may have Miss Wittstock. What baffles me is the fact that certain individuals believe that a woman who is nearly thirty can and would be metamorphosed by a betrothal and these characteristics of banal exhibitionism would not then be heightened but honed and flattened or cultivated to correctness.JMO

 

[BurberryBrit]

If Charlene is going to be paraded as the official companion of Prince Albert, then she should have received some training on how to dress and act. I'm sorry, but her hair looks aweful. And bravo to pinky for saying she needs to dress for her shape! She could look much more elegant with the right dress, hair and makeup. And what's sad is, I think she's actually trying. Perhaps she should ask Caroline for advice on dressing and whatnot.

 

[Jaya]

If Charlene is going to be paraded as the official companion of Prince Albert, then she should have received some training on how to dress and act. I'm sorry, but her hair looks aweful. And bravo to pinky for saying she needs to dress for her shape! She could look much more elegant with the right dress, hair and makeup. And what's sad is, I think she's actually trying. Perhaps she should ask Caroline for advice on dressing and whatnot.

Thanks for that insight.
Yes I agree so wholeheartedly that there is a draconian effort on Miss Wittstock's part to surpass herself and dress in an appropriate manner.But having looked at her gowns I do not think that Miss Wittstock will take criticism easily because the nature of her attire does not bespeak one who is told but one who tells others.At the age of thirty what room for training will a lady listen to.? By then one has inevitably developed the definitive nature and proclivity to dress, speak interact etc.And yes the proportions and dress for shape of Pinklady were brilliant points. I maybe wrong. regarding what I now see but time will tell..JMO

 

[seto]

We are not just alluding to Miss Wittstock's "fashion sensibility" . The gown is a para -signifier of other things and attributes the lady displays through her dress sense. If you read Heraclitus the dress is unrelated to fashion... the sun is unrelated to sunniness;it is a giveaway,a harbinger, for other things and while some are striving to evaluate; some are seeking to ascertain... If the Grimaldis choose to be blind to this and blind to lack of academic qualification and blind to correct comportment and blind to undignified postures then they may have Miss Wittstock. What baffles me is the fact that certain individuals believe that a woman who is nearly thirty can and would be metamorphosed by a betrothal and these characteristics of banal exhibitionism would not then be heightened but honed and flattened or cultivated to correctness.JMO

I think that the royals know her better than the people on this board do. I did not say she would be metamorphosed by marriage. I think that she can learn and adapt to the role if need be. To me you are never too old to learn or do anything if you put your mind to it. Life experiences also count as education. I also think there is more to being royal than what you wear and how you sit. For me it is simple if Albert loves her and his family accepts her that is all that matters because no one is going to change that.

 

[Doña Alicia]

For me it is simple if Albert loves her and his family accepts her that is all that matters because no one is going to change that.

That is a fine point. I suppose it is true; it's no one's business but their own. Still, it will pain me to see her as the next princess of Monaco.

 

[hibou]

I think that the royals know her better than the people on this board do. I did not say she would be metamorphosed by marriage. I think that she can learn and adapt to the role if need be. To me you are never too old to learn or do anything if you put your mind to it. Life experiences also count as education. I also think there is more to being royal than what you wear and how you sit. For me it is simple if Albert loves her and his family accepts her that is all that matters because no one is going to change that.

Hi Seto with all due respect, Charlene has had a year to learn to adapt, to learn or at least ask what is appropriate to wear to events, she had access to protocal people if she so desired to learn. She spent time in Paris and could have continued her formal education. She professed to be training which it appears she has not been doing seriously. If this past year is a window into what is to come, it will be one faux pas after another. If they were not royals then you would be correct that if Albert loves her it is all that matters. Unfortunately, there is a job that comes with the marriage and it's a big one! She doesn't seem to grasp what she needs to do. She just strikes me as too self- centered to care. JMO

 

[seto]

I think time will tell as far as charlene is concerned. I also think that with carolines help she will be fine not perfect but fine. I don't know her as none of us do so I can't say what kind of job she will do I also can't say she won't be able to handle it.

 

[Jaya]

That is a fine point. I suppose it is true; it's no one's business but their own. Still, it will pain me to see her as the next princess of Monaco.

Apologies Seto,
I have to agree with the aforementioned statements entirely. of Dona Alicia...
One has to have a natural aptitude to be called to be "purple". One must have a certain spirituality and physicality which touces at the vortex.Otherwise you are just a commoner loved by a royal by birth .You have power by association but you yourself have not.You are forgetting that there is a difference between reading the Bible, Shakespeare and the today's newspaper.
Your syllogism runs like this; because potentially somone loves a newspaper;they will somehow transform it or pass it off or revise the thousands of years of history encircling it and uphold it to "purple"" status. Remember sovereigns were originally able to give catalysis.[the sacrament]
Of all my misgivings regarding Miss Wittstock I would probably be flexible to all except that she is not spiritually inclined because if she was her attire at the function for needy children would have reflected what was in her soul and spirituality.There is a mystifying attachment between the potential position and not much else I perceive.There is a potential bulemia based in vainglory from the last public appearance that is disconcerting.
The duality of Miss Wittstock has worried some of us in that she portrays by her public displays of affection and indiscretions that she is unconcerned with impressions and then the lady wears a very "impressive" gown meant to draw exactly the opposite[could this be disingenuity?] of what she originally seemed not to care about.
Impressions.JMO
You can adapt but if your aptitude is not for the "calling" you are no different than the dentist's wife in the suburbs. And that is the difference we are all looking for and asking for. and have not seen. or felt.the proof after the fact may be too late.And you may know the saying love can cure all but a toothache and poverty.....

 

[Lakshmi]

I don't like this dress at all and not appropriate for the type of function she was attending. Notice how Caroline is dressed. Putting the two side by side would have demonstrated the worst and best fashion statements of the evening!

Hibou, I agree. Contrast couldn't be better. Caroline as example how classy woman should look like and , unfortunatelly Charlene how inappropriatelly dressed woman may look like.

 

[libra65]

I sure hope Charlene is currently training hard in South Africa if she thinks she is going to Bejing. I just heard Olympic medalist Amanda Beard (7 medals in 3 olympiads) in a radio interview. They happened to ask her about the peak age of a competitive swimmer. She said most top out in their early 20s. She swims Breaststroke & is trying to make the US team again. She will be almost 27 at Olympic time. She said she is hours everyday in the pool and the training center. It is harder now that she is older but it can be done. Dara Torres won Gold in Melbourne at the age of 31. Charlene better start buckling down if she really wants to make it.

 

[BurberryBrit]

She is not training seriously. If you look at her body in recent pics, she's not even as bulky as she used to be. Sounds like muscle atrophy (ie muscles not being used).

 

[semisquare]

maybe she is doing the massage training workout. studies have shown that if u get a massage twice a week your muscles will increase in size. so someone in her condition should have a massage twice a day- seven days a week to restore her orignial muscle tone.
now, if u believe me i have some beach front properity to sell u in phonix, az.

 

[sandsla]

Apologies Seto,
I have to agree with the aforementioned statements entirely. of Dona Alicia...
One has to have a natural aptitude to be called to be "purple". One must have a certain spirituality and physicality which touces at the vortex.Otherwise you are just a commoner loved by a royal by birth .You have power by association but you yourself have not.You are forgetting that there is a difference between reading the Bible, Shakespeare and the today's newspaper.
Your syllogism runs like this; because potentially somone loves a newspaper;they will somehow transform it or pass it off or revise the thousands of years of history encircling it and uphold it to "purple"" status. Remember sovereigns were originally able to give catalysis.[the sacrament]
Of all my misgivings regarding Miss Wittstock I would probably be flexible to all except that she is not spiritually inclined because if she was her attire at the function for needy children would have reflected what was in her soul and spirituality.There is a mystifying attachment between the potential position and not much else I perceive.There is a potential bulemia based in vainglory from the last public appearance that is disconcerting.
The duality of Miss Wittstock has worried some of us in that she portrays by her public displays of affection and indiscretions that she is unconcerned with impressions and then the lady wears a very "impressive" gown meant to draw exactly the opposite[could this be disingenuity?] of what she originally seemed not to care about.
Impressions.JMO
You can adapt but if your aptitude is not for the "calling" you are no different than the dentist's wife in the suburbs. And that is the difference we are all looking for and asking for. and have not seen. or felt.the proof after the fact may be too late.And you may know the saying love can cure all but a toothache and poverty.....

Hello Jaya,

I have been out of town & I've not posted on this board for awhile, so I'm catching up here on Miss Wittstock's attendance to events. I have tried to hold back on criticizing Miss Wittstock's appearance in the past, it being obvious her sense of appropriateness or style does not come naturally for her (which I do think is a problem & very telling). You have been spot on in all your posts here & I wanted to pass this on to the people who don't seem to understand the correlation even though you articulated it brilliantly.

There was a reference to this month's Harper's BAZAAR by another poster - I think in the Princess Caroline Thread. I don't usually buy this magazine, but to my surprise I had & came across the article that mentioned how Princess Caroline gets it right all the time & does not make the mistake of trying too hard at being sexy at every opportunity. But I thought most of the article could have been a critique on Miss Wittstock.

The best line was "....eagerness in dress or manner implies that you have a separate agenda from that of your host or spouse, that you want more than you legitimately deserve, and that you are a person of no particular finesse or subtlty".

This article was written by Cathy Horyn, who helped pen or edit (?) Bill Blass's memoir from what I could gather, she won an award the CFDA for it.

Anyway Jaya I really enjoyed all your posts as well as the other ladies who chimed in.

 

[pinklady1991]

The best line was "....eagerness in dress or manner implies that you have a separate agenda from that of your host or spouse, that you want more than you legitimately deserve, and that you are a person of no particular finesse or subtlty".

That could be directed at any one of a particular age group: most notably women from about 18-30. From my personal experience I've seen a lot of women who dress not as to what suits them but to try to fit some kind of ideal created by Hollywood or the fashion magazines. A sense of style comes with maturity.

 

[Jaya]

Counterbalancing style,elegance, glamour

That could be directed at any one of a particular age group: most notably women from about 18-30. From my personal experience I've seen a lot of women who dress not as to what suits them but to try to fit some kind of ideal created by Hollywood or the fashion magazines. A sense of style comes with maturity.

I had style when I was twenty.Style means you know what suits you and you know how to wear it with aplomb. You dress for you and you only.It is a statement to the world that I have found the definitive attire, accessories etc to wear.For instance Lauren Bacall has great "style" because she alone discovered and wore those muted tones.Style is a "second state" that few are able to achieve.A sense of style is lacking today because it deals with continuity;adherence to the adaptation; and the younger crowd want something more disposable and interchangeable to wear nowadays. I am ceratain Diana Vreeland and others had "style " at a young age.Chanel had style at a young age. The person makes the "style" and not the style the person.
Elegance is a combination of the exact aesthetic denominators fitting all cosmopolitan circumstance.So as much as I would like to agree and I do that younger people dress according to fashion magazines;the option is there as to what becomes the wearer.I think the world has become about"labels" and these do not necessarily have to do with style or elegance. Take Rene Zellwegger a couple of years ago at The Oscars she was dressed in a vintage chiffon yellow gown by Jean Desses [the teacher of Valentino] and she is relatively young.Jean Desses also did many of Evita Peron's clothes.Rene Zellwegger showed at that moment that she has style and elegance. The two must appear uncontrived and unlaboured.Evita was flamboyant in her style because it was a reflection of her theatrical personality and it looked good on her.She had style and glamour counterbalancing each other.
Toss the magazine out and go into the imagination..if need be...
The ideal is what becomes you and what is appropriate vis a vis proportion ;time of day etc ...Today the fashion magazines are gran guignol as Charlene was at the Amade reception recently Style, elegance and glamour need counterbalancing.They need to join the dots that signify the equivalences between them.The young lack ingenuity and are a bit complacent but I am hopeful.Style is about"style"

 

[sandsla]

That could be directed at any one of a particular age group: most notably women from about 18-30. From my personal experience I've seen a lot of women who dress not as to what suits them but to try to fit some kind of ideal created by Hollywood or the fashion magazines. A sense of style comes with maturity.

I'm sure it was directed at the population at large, but I thought it was a good example of why Charlene draws so much criticism.

I have to disagree some that style comes with maturity. Maybe a sense of appropriateness, but even then I might have to disagree. I know many young people who have a great sense of style at a very young age & older women who just can't get it right, even if you are not talking of age? If you are referring to Charlene's level of maturity or the lack of, I guess I understand...but it's more than that. I think it's exactly as what that phrase implies. Trying to draw attention to oneself when it's inappropriate & when you've done nothing to deserve attention. I think it reveals ones personality type, I think Charlene probably did not think twice (or gave much thought) in regard to Princess Caroline or the cause, I think it's more than being clueless in not knowing how to dress appropriate for the occassion. She obviously doesn't error on the being careful or conscious side. She seems (imo) to see herself as someone more important than she is & sadly telegraphs it in her dress & manner.

I do agree with you many women do not dress for their own body type or personality & hopelessly follow fads. Also, there are not many women who try for elegance in an understated way perhaps?

I worked in the fashion industry for many years. When I placed orders as a buyer I knew which items we would have to teach a customer to wear. They were forever drawn to clothes that looked good on the hanger instead of clothes that made them look good.

When I was still very young, I bought very expensive classic items (that I could not afford, but bought anyway) & paid much less for a few current trendy styles if I thought they worked on me. I still have some of my clothes from the time I was 18 or 19 yrs old. 20+ yrs later I get many compliments on them still. I could sell them for more than I paid for them then, as most of the designers are no longer living & are now sought after items. Also I bought a beautiful Helen Rose gown I found on ebay not too long ago! It's about being smart & knowing who you are & knowing how to portray who you are, imo. And to not look like you are trying to hard!

Jaya, you beat me to it. I was thinking of Lauren Bacall when I was writing this. Who was only 17 in "To Have or Have not" hard to believe. Howard Hawks wife discovered her when she modeled in BAZAAR, I don't know if she modeled herself after Howard Hawks wife or his wife Slim liked her because she remided her of herself. They even called her "Slim" in the movie. I'm not sure who she modeled her role in the film after, but it was said in a special recently that Bogey fell in love with it so she kept playing the role for the rest of her life

 

[Jaya]

I agree . I think we are saying the same thing but in different ways. I find older ladies with impeccable grooming at least nearly always.
My couturier when I was young was a student of Chanel. Helen Rose was a fabulous designer. Much like Jean Desses she did those chiffon numbers that Cyd Charisse wore in "Silk Stockings" . Another elegant lady Cyd and sexy too but not in an overt manner.Totally agree. This also has to do with breeding; the good the bad and the ugly... but another time.

 

[Jaya]

Hello Jaya,

I have been out of town & I've not posted on this board for awhile, so I'm catching up here on Miss Wittstock's attendance to events. I have tried to hold back on criticizing Miss Wittstock's appearance in the past, it being obvious her sense of appropriateness or style does not come naturally for her (which I do think is a problem & very telling). You have been spot on in all your posts here & I wanted to pass this on to the people who don't seem to understand the correlation even though you articulated it brilliantly.

There was a reference to this month's Harper's BAZAAR by another poster - I think in the Princess Caroline Thread. I don't usually buy this magazine, but to my surprise I had & came across the article that mentioned how Princess Caroline gets it right all the time & does not make the mistake of trying too hard at being sexy at every opportunity. But I thought most of the article could have been a critique on Miss Wittstock.

The best line was "....eagerness in dress or manner implies that you have a separate agenda from that of your host or spouse, that you want more than you legitimately deserve, and that you are a person of no particular finesse or subtlty".

This article was written by Cathy Horyn, who helped pen or edit (?) Bill Blass's memoir from what I could gather, she won an award the CFDA for it.

Anyway Jaya I really enjoyed all your posts as well as the other ladies who chimed in.

Hello sandsla,
Thank you for your comments and I will try to get my copy of the Bill Blass biography ,for indeed he was a great designer and I loved him much.Just have to look in my downstairs closet.I wish we had the equivalent with which to attire Miss Wittstock in today.

 

[sandsla]

I agree . I think we are saying the same thing but in different ways. I find older ladies with impeccable grooming at least nearly always.
My couturier when I was young was a student of Chanel. Helen Rose was a fabulous designer. Much like Jean Desses she did those chiffon numbers that Cyd Charisse wore in "Silk Stockings" . Another elegant lady Cyd and sexy too but not in an overt manner.Totally agree. This also has to do with breeding; the good the bad and the ugly... but another time.

Yes I think we are. You are right my Helen Rose dress is a chiffon godess style. It's timeless. I love vintage & it fits my body type & style well. It's also constructed very well, which you don't find very often unless you want to mortgage your home. I loved the Jean Desses dress Renee wore. The shop it came from is down the street from me & they have great things. I think the dress Jeniffer Lopez wore last year (olive vintage) was nice as well, I have one very close to it in another color. (People are always stepping on that 50's train, that most of them have). I think Scarlett Johannson is another young women who gets it right also & I like that she does not try to be stick skinny & knows how to wear clothes for her body. Also Cyd was such a great dancer she could make anything look great!

 

[tbhrc]

Okay please remember that this is Charlene's Current Events Thread and NOT her Fashion Thread. So please get back on topic. There is still the 'What is your opinion about Charlene thread' and you could also open a thread in the fashion forum, but this place is JUST for her current events.

Thanks for your cooperation,

tbhrc
Monaco Moderator

 

[LadyS]

I was wondering if Charlene will be attending the Rose Ball? Do they announce who is attending beforehand?

 

[Lillia]

imo its spells looking for attention. its a shame she would a dress in that fashion to a children benefit gala. what in the world was she thinking? oops i guess she wasnt thinking about anything other than herself.
(again people imo)
imo -its like he has no common sense hanging out in public with a girl like her or allowing his family to do things in public with her.
if this is "the one" i hope she is worth it because they are all looking like a bunch of nuts-imo people, so dont get upset

I just saw those pictures too and yep, same thing I was thinking -- she looks like she is trying to transform herself over into a silk purse. Big hair, sequins all over. I guess that's her idea (or somebody's idea) of glamour and sophistication...
But ok, if that's what Albie wants...

It's not so different that the type women he seems to like to have close associations with so CW's 'manner' it should not be a huge surprise to anyone right?

 

[Lillia]

you may not have seen the pictures, but caro and pierre look miserable. They invited her because if would have looked rude and not polite for one of them to be in SA and not invite charlene since she lives there. the dress is totally inapropriate for the event and isn't for someone shaped like charlene. To me it looks like a night gown. this spero vilotti is wasting her money.
the sad part is that she doesn't have fashion sense herself, nor sense of ridiculous.
jaya, you had a gemm of a post. Totally agree

Interesting point, but the Grimaldi's are not obliged to offer CW any kind of invite to anything -- she's not a head of state or anything like that for South Africa.

She's a former member of the South African swim team that participated in the Olympics some time ago and now she's Albert's mistress (lest we forget).

 

[Suonymona]

I wouldn't think they'd want to get to know her unless they were sure she'd be part of the family. Still, they wouldn't be cold...just in case.

Just because Charlene is closer to the Trio's age than Albert's doesn't necessarily mean she'd be interested in the same things. I feel more at home with people older than myself because I have rather 'old' and ecclectic tastes which are very dissimilar to those of "my" age.

 

[MandysRoyalty]

She seems to look quite a bit like Marie-Chantal of Greece, at a certain angle.

 

[Suonymona]

Some of the recent photos of blonde Zara Phillips of the British RF bear a resemblance to her too.

 

[LadyS]

I was wondering if Charlene has been spotted in Monaco yet.

I would imagine that she would be around if she is attending the Rose Ball.

 

[Suonymona]

I expect any appearance by Charlene to be a complete surprise.
IF she shows, I do not think she will walk the press line like last time. Too dangerous!