Charlene Wittstock Current Events 7 : Nov.2006 - Jan.2007

[libra65]

Today I heard on the TV news that according to Novella2000 mag Charlene is in Paris and met Prince Albert soon after Monaco National Day. The reason she wasn't in Monaco, and there is no pics of her and Albert together in Paris, is that he wants to protect her from the press. He also stated that their romance is not over.

I am not familiar with Novella2000. Is this a publication Albert would make a statment to? Or is this just their spin on things?

 

[Tinika]

I'm no fan of Charlene's, but I don't think I'd wish Albert on ANYONE. He has a callousness toward women that's kind of disturbing.

 

[Tosca]

That's what I heard from the TV. I didn't buy the mag, and Novella isn't amongst my favourite mags. It's been a trashy tabloid for a long time, that has improved a bit lately, but I wouldn't swear on the truth of their articles, although they sometimes were proved right.

 

[libra65]

That's what I heard from the TV. I didn't buy the mag, and Novella isn't amongst my favourite mags. It's been a trashy tabloid for a long time, that has improved a bit lately, but I wouldn't swear on the truth of their articles, although they sometimes were proved right.

Thanks Tosca, that tells me a lot. I am going to go with the assumption that HE didn't state anything. This is just their way of selling copies & not admitting that they may have been wrong about any previous statements regarding "engagement announcements". Thanks again.

 

[Tosca]

Please, don't mention it!

 

[MyAdia]

Today I heard on the TV news that according to Novella2000 mag Charlene is in Paris and met Prince Albert soon after Monaco National Day. The reason she wasn't in Monaco, and there is no pics of her and Albert together in Paris, is that he wants to protect her from the press. He also stated that their romance is not over.

This sounds very believable. Prince Albert was in Paris at an event right before the Princess Grace Awards and he attended an event in Paris right after the National Day celebrations. Also, the last public picture of Charlene looking at Prince Albert on the cover with another was very compelling. And if you believe the reports of Charlene being at the PGA, then clearly Prince Albert is keeping her from the public view. Also, maybe Charlene's presence explains the absence of Princess Caroline. One shouldn't assume that Charlene was not there just because another poster is so adamant because of "scheduling" issues. Scheduling issues would have kept Prince Albert from visiting his daughter in California or say having her visit him in New York. But being pressed for time does not prevent him bringing a date. Besides, this awards ceremony was different in that there were NO published pictures of the non-red carpet or award recipients guests as in the past.

So, I think he probably is shielding Charlene now from the press. The bigger issue for me is that there probably is more trouble and scandal for Monaco ahead if Prince Albert's future intention toward Charlene is not honorable. Again, Albert has involved himself with a woman who is more than willing to turn a blind eye to his dalliances with other women. I don't care how big of a fan you are of Charlene, but I would have a BIG problem if I saw similar pictures of my man as the pictures of Albert with the other woman on the boat in August and also the report that was initially posted in this forum from a Monaco resident of seeing Prince Albert kissing a woman in July.

So, if Charlene is living in Paris to be nearer when Albert calls for her, regardless of his summer dalliances, that says something of her determination (or desperation) to remain in Prince Albert's life. And, if Prince Albert has now decided to shield her from the press, I don't know if that is a positive or a negative thing, especially since he changed his tune this summer and stated that he had no intentions of marrying. Maybe that statement was a smokescreen to keep the press away from Charlene because Charlene continued to see him after that statement.

Who knows anymore with this man. Let's just hope two summer announcements in a row of a hidden child is not a trend.

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

If she was in NY during the PGA as my friend Mw stated and the press has later supported she was I would have to say its likely they are still together. Albert dates woman for years and as we all know the relationships haven't lead to marriage. Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't together. As his friend Michael Powers has said Albert's real gf's you don't hear of so perhaps they have shifted the relationship into another gear as occurred with Nicole of five years she wasn't out front Alicia and Angie were to name two. I wouldn't say its over until he says it is or announces another woman as his companion. JMO

 

[MyAdia]

If she was in NY during the PGA as my friend Mw stated and the press has later supported she was I would have to say its likely they are still together. Albert dates woman for years and as we all know the relationships haven't lead to marriage. Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't together. As his friend Michael Powers has said Albert's real gf's you don't hear of so perhaps they have shifted the relationship into another gear as occurred with Nicole of five years she wasn't out front Alicia and Angie were to name two. I wouldn't say its over until he says it is or announces another woman as his companion. JMO

Sorry, Lady Mac. I see nothing honorable or respectable about a relationship that Prince Albert had privately with Nicole while he PUBLICLY romanced others. If Albert is privately and EXCLUSIVELY seeing Charlene and is keeping her out of the public then that's a REAL girlfriend. But, if we were to see Albert taking women on his arms to public Monaco events as he did with Tasha and Alicia WHILE still seeing Charlene that to me is NOT a REAL girlfriend. That is a disrespected one. In the real world, can a man get away with that? Would you allow a man to say to you that you are my real girlfriend if he is publicly dating others? I doubt it.

Everybody always quote Mike Powers statement, but I am sure the context was in a mutual exclusive relationship. He dated Stevie Parker for three years and kept her out of the public view. Was she then his real girlfriend? If he is keeping Charlene out of the public view AND he is not dating anyone else publicly, then ok, I'll call her a real girlfriend - as most people would.

Real, respectful and healthy relationships are at the very least monogamous ones.

 

[hibou]

In reading all this I ponder the interpretation of two things 1. What is the difference between a hidden girlfriend and a mistress 2. Is one or two public dates mean he is "dating" these girls exclusively. Many people go on dates but are not the girlfriend or boyfriend of the person they are with so perhaps that is the real problem.

Charlene looked like a girlfriend both public and private then he was photographed with other ladies and then Charlene is supposedly hidden? Does this make sense? He knows all to well the ways of the press but this doesn't make sense? JMO

 

[Zonk]

Sorry, Lady Mac. I see nothing honorable or respectable about a relationship that Prince Albert had privately with Nicole while he PUBLICLY romanced others. If Albert is privately and EXCLUSIVELY seeing Charlene and is keeping her out of the public then that's a REAL girlfriend. But, if we were to see Albert taking women on his arms to public Monaco events as he did with Tasha and Alicia WHILE still seeing Charlene that to me is NOT a REAL girlfriend. That is a disrespected one. In the real world, can a man get away with that? Would you allow a man to say to you that you are my real girlfriend if he is publicly dating others? I doubt it.

Everybody always quote Mike Powers statement, but I am sure the context was in a mutual exclusive relationship. He dated Stevie Parker for three years and kept her out of the public view. Was she then his real girlfriend? If he is keeping Charlene out of the public view AND he is not dating anyone else publicly, then ok, I'll call her a real girlfriend - as most people would.

Real, respectful and healthy relationships are at the very least monogamous ones.

You make some valid points but I must respectfully disagree with some of your statements.

First of all, No two people are the same nor are relationships. What I might find acceptable in a relationship you might not tolerate. And that is your right.

All of the people you mentioned (Albert, Nicole, Charlene, and Alicia) are legal adults. We could debate forever regarding Albert's emotional maturity...but for all intents and purposes...at some point...1) these women should and do know the score while dating Albert. He has said plenty of times that he has no desire to get married. Now he could be telling them something else in private but its up to them to believe him or not; and 2) these women are fairily young (at least in comparison to Albert) and at that age...most women think they can change a man's opinion. "Oh...I am different than these other women...he will want to be with me FOREVER." And its not until you get older and wiser (following a few dating experiences - good and bad) that you realize that you can't change anyone.

And why can't Albert take other women out while he is dating Charlene. Notice I said "take them out" why is always assumed that men and women are sleeping together and it is not possible for men and women to be friends. If your "official companion" is not available for an event and she knows and is okay with you going with a female friend...even one you had a relationship with...then why is that not okay. You need to fully secure with yourself and your relationship with your man...and if that is the case...then I see no problem with it. And to answer your question, YES IN THE REAL WORLD THIS HAPPENS MANY MANY TIMES.

I am totally ambivalent about Charlene....what I know about her I learned on this board. BUT I do know that only she and Albert know the true definition of their relationship. Its future, its limitations, etc. And if they are okay with it...whom am I to judge? People say all the time that Charlene is an awful woman and a bad role model? Well...who appointed her as a role model? No one I know. Would I want my daughter (if I had one) to be like her...probably not...but then again...I really don't know anything about her.

Also this post isn't just directed to MyAdia.

 

[BurberryBrit]

In reading all this I ponder the interpretation of two things 1. What is the difference between a hidden girlfriend and a mistress 2. Is one or two public dates mean he is "dating" these girls exclusively. Many people go on dates but are not the girlfriend or boyfriend of the person they are with so perhaps that is the real problem.

Charlene looked like a girlfriend both public and private then he was photographed with other ladies and then Charlene is supposedly hidden? Does this make sense? He knows all to well the ways of the press but this doesn't make sense? JMO

When I think a hidden girlfriend, I think
1. he is trying to protect that person from the media circus that will surely follow her (like mary and fred)
2. she isn't suitable to be out in public

It's weird that he threw her out there, saw that her behaviour is unsuitable and reigned her in. That's why I'm inclined to believe that it's reason #2.
They could be together simply because they have a sexual relationship. Maybe that's why she's private. I couldn't imagine him not protecting her from the beginning of their relationship if he really had feelings for her. It seems he'd would have wanted to keep her hidden until he was sure.

To be honest, PA is an interesting character! I am watching this unfold but I can't say what will happen. If he marries her. . .

 

[rosana]

Please don't mention that it is OVER!! Every time we do that, SHE REAPPEARS!!!!!!!!!!! Please make it stop.

You were right ,she´s around again

 

[brother]

You were right ,she´s around again

well, get used to it, everytime there is a piece of info about jazmin , the OC shows up again to distract our attention. sorry guys, it's not working. she was the last one he needed to ruin his image right now...His PR is bad as always.

 

[sandsla]

You make some valid points but I must respectfully disagree with some of your statements.

First of all, No two people are the same nor are relationships. What I might find acceptable in a relationship you might not tolerate. And that is your right.

All of the people you mentioned (Albert, Nicole, Charlene, and Alicia) are legal adults. We could debate forever regarding Albert's emotional maturity...but for all intents and purposes...at some point...1) these women should and do know the score while dating Albert. He has said plenty of times that he has no desire to get married. Now he could be telling them something else in private but its up to them to believe him or not; and 2) these women are fairily young (at least in comparison to Albert) and at that age...most women think they can change a man's opinion. "Oh...I am different than these other women...he will want to be with me FOREVER." And its not until you get older and wiser (following a few dating experiences - good and bad) that you realize that you can't change anyone.

And why can't Albert take other women out while he is dating Charlene. Notice I said "take them out" why is always assumed that men and women are sleeping together and it is not possible for men and women to be friends. If your "official companion" is not available for an event and she knows and is okay with you going with a female friend...even one you had a relationship with...then why is that not okay. You need to fully secure with yourself and your relationship with your man...and if that is the case...then I see no problem with it. And to answer your question, YES IN THE REAL WORLD THIS HAPPENS MANY MANY TIMES.

I am totally ambivalent about Charlene....what I know about her I learned on this board. BUT I do know that only she and Albert know the true definition of their relationship. Its future, its limitations, etc. And if they are okay with it...whom am I to judge? People say all the time that Charlene is an awful woman and a bad role model? Well...who appointed her as a role model? No one I know. Would I want my daughter (if I had one) to be like her...probably not...but then again...I really don't know anything about her.

Also this post isn't just directed to MyAdia.

Exactly right, & some of these women from there own account i.e. Stevey Parker? Said when she found out he was in town she had a bouquet of red roses delivered to his hotel room to be placed on his bed. To let him know she was available? If you don't want to be a booty call. It's simple - don't be one. Tamaro Rotolo said in an interview that Albert & her where at it within an hour & she had no problem telling the press about it. As far as Albert involving himself w/women he has to pay for later. I agree that speaks of his emotional maturity or lack of it. Either way they are both consulting adults & have a much better knowledge of the relationship than we do.

 

[PrincessDianafan]

It's probably over. He's always going to be a confirmed bachelor.

 

[MyAdia]

It's probably over. He's always going to be a confirmed bachelor.

It defintely doesn't look like it's over...at least according to Charlene's dad (and I'm sure he knows more than we do right now).

Here’s an excerpt from this week’s Bunte article concerning Charlene. The article is not online yet, but it probably will be today (I got it from a news service). But, below are some excerpts using a translator. It seems that some people owe MW7060a an apology because Charlene’s father told Bunte that she was in New York with Albert two weeks ago (AND in Florida AND in the Bahamas).

******************************
Bunte 30 November 2006

COLUMN: NOBILITY; Pg. 26
LENGTH: 393 words
HEADING: Their dad still believes in the love
AUTHOR: Anja Daeschler
HIGHLIGHT:
Charlene Wittstock and prince Albert Sie were on vacation, but the engagement is absent

Das ist zu verstehen. Aber von der schoenen Suedafrikanerin war auch sonst nichts zu sehen. Letzter gemeinsamer Auftritt? Ende August - da kommen schnell Trennungsgeruechte auf. BUNTE fragte bei Charlenes Vater nach, Unternehmer Michael Wittstock. Ob er wohl weiss, wie es seiner Tochter und ihrer Liebe geht? Seine Antwort: 'Die beiden waren doch vor zwei Wochen in New York und sind nach Florida und auf die Bahamas geflogen. Mir scheint, dass alles in Ordnung ist.'

This is to be understood. But, otherwise, from the nice South African nothing was also to be seen. The last common appearance? At the end of August - separation rumors arise there fast. Bunte father asked with Charlenes, enterpriser Michael Wittstock. Whether does he probably know, ¡á߬«½ý¬« does it go for his daughter and her love? His answer: " Nevertheless, the both were two weeks ago in New York and have flown to Florida and on the Bahamas. Appears to me that everything is in order. "

…
Einem Grimaldi-Vertrauten imponiert Charlene, aber genau deshalb setzt er nicht mehr auf eine Hochzeit mit Albert: 'Sie ist sehr unabhaengig, lebt ihr eigenes Leben und ist nicht kaeuflich - weder mit Schmuck noch mit Kleidern. Schauen Sie nur, was fuer preiswerte Outfits sie trug, wenn sie ihn begleitete. Selbst gekauft! Diese Frau wird keine Kompromisse eingehen, um Fuerstin zu werden. Es ist kein Geheimnis, dass Albert gern flirtet, und sie moechte, dass er sich nur auf sie konzentriert und ihr das schwoert. Dabei braeuchte Monaco dringend diese Frau. Im Moment ist das Fuerstentum ein Ort ohne Glanz und Glamour.'

Charlene impresses a Confidant to Grimaldi, but exactly, therefore, he places no more on a wedding with Albert: " She is very independent, her own life lives and is not for sale - neither with jewellery nor with clothes. Look only what for inexpensive outfits she carried if it accompanied him. Even bought! This woman will enter no compromises to become a princess. It is no secret that Albert flirts with pleasure, and she might that he concentrates only upon them and you swear this. Besides, Monaco would urgently need this woman. At the moment the principality is a place without shine and glamor. "
…

 

[MyAdia]

Actually, at least two of the gowns that Charlene wore (Red Cross Ball and a dinner in Monaco) were not exactly inexpensive. While shopping for the holiday events season, I ran across a South African designer's website and he posted two of the gowns that Charlene wore of his. They could have been a loaner however for the publicity.

Here's the link. On the catwalk, Charlene wore a green version of the backless black dress. Also, there's the mermaid-looking green dress that she wore to the Red Cross gala. Spiro has magazine clippings of Charlene and Albert under the Press Gallery.
http://www.sperovillioti.co.za/fashiongallery.htm?


Well I think it's honorable that Charlene doesn't want to be bought (although I find NOTHING wrong with a man of means providing a wardrobe for the woman that he loves to attend special functions if she can not afford it). But, where's the larger honor of woman not being with a man who has dalliances with other woman while he is dating her? Who knows, maybe Prince Albert change since the pictures of the yachtwoman surfaced. Maybe their relationship took a different turn.

 

[Tosca]

I seriously doubt this lady may add shine and glamour to the Pincipality. She's a dull person IMHO.
Anyway there's an article on this week's Novella 2000, reading that their relationship is not over. Here it is:
http://www.novella2000.it/archive/new/img_2006/49/alberto.jpg

And here's the cover:
http://www.novella2000.it/archive/new/img_2006/49/cover.jpg

 

[pinklady1991]

When I think a hidden girlfriend, I think
1. he is trying to protect that person from the media circus that will surely follow her (like mary and fred)
2. she isn't suitable to be out in public

It's weird that he threw her out there, saw that her behaviour is unsuitable and reigned her in. That's why I'm inclined to believe that it's reason #2.
They could be together simply because they have a sexual relationship. Maybe that's why she's private. I couldn't imagine him not protecting her from the beginning of their relationship if he really had feelings for her. It seems he'd would have wanted to keep her hidden until he was sure.

To be honest, PA is an interesting character! I am watching this unfold but I can't say what will happen. If he marries her. . .

I agree with you Burberry. Part of me wonders if he intended to keep this relationship quiet all along but they got caught by the media at the Olympics and then the frenzy following the Maldives vacation. If this relationship is nothing more than a pleasant distraction, then it does make sense that she would then "disappear" for months at a time. I guess he had to take her to a couple of public events once they were "outed" as a couple.

I wonder if they are an "on again-off again" couple? I knew couples like that and they were on and off more than a lightswitch. They actually like to fight and break up just to get back together much to the horror and amusement of everyone around them.

 

[MyAdia]

Charlene's Olympic Training...

Also, I forgot to mention a rather ironic twist about the Bunte article after mentioning the traveling of Charlene and Albert. Her South African coach stated that Charlene's dream is to be in the 2008 Olympics and she swims 2.5 hours a day in Richards Bay, South Africa but less in Monaco because she has too many obligations. He hopes that she will be in form for qualifiers in April.

 

[pinklady1991]

I seriously doubt this lady may add shine and glamour to the Pincipality. She's a dull person IMHO.

I agree...there might be some interest for a little while after an engagement announcement, wedding, birth of a child but there is nothing there to really captivate international attention. I may get chastised for this, but she lacks the poise and class that demands attention (see: Princess Grace, Jackie Kennedy, Letizia, Mary of Denmark...)

Well, if Papa Wittstock is talking again, it's not so much a secret. Same if there are articles about them. What I'd like to know is, even if Charlene is "not being bought" as her father stated, how real is any relationship that the guy whisks you off on exotic vacations all the time, holes you up in his private apartment in Paris, and brings you to exclusive events???? This is like an extended season of "The Bachelor." The girls provide the clothes (for better or for worse) and somoene else the backdrop. So it may not be long-term personal gain for Charlene (clothes, jewelry), she is getting something out of this.

 

[Tosca]

There's also a video in Italian -http://mediacenter.corriere.it/MediaCenter/action/player?idCanale=Bnovella&filtro=Tutti&pagina=1&passo=5&uuid=657887c2-7fb2-11db-b673-0003ba99c53b&navName=2 -

explaining that, the mag's reporter had it on a good authority, Charlene is currently living, hidden inside the Palace. Besides Prince Albert held a party with 50 guest in her honour the night before the mag came out.

 

[MyAdia]

I seriously doubt this lady may add shine and glamour to the Pincipality. She's a dull person IMHO.

I think that she is crass and likes any kind of style (not to mention education and decorum). Of course Charlene's biggest fans will let you know that obviously Prince Albert doesn't think that she is dull because he is still with her (but to that response I will remind them he was with Tamara, Nicole, Bea-the-porno-star, Stevie Parker, and a slew of other women that I find dull also). But obviously, the media does not think that she is dull; she has graced many of their covers. They started printing marriage stories immediately after her Turin debut. These magazines make money off Albert and a future Princess of Monaco. They only care about what sells - and as long as people buy it, they will continue to print it and sell it.

It's funny how her dad was pretty quite as long as the magazines were printing the Charlene and Albert is getting married stories. But once there was the stories starting changing the last week about the relationship being over - we started getting remarks from dad and a lot of anonymous sources to let everyone know that all is going well in Albert and Charlene world. It seems that if Prince Albert wanted everyone to know that it wasn't over, he would have taken her out in public, but he did not. So, why did daddy Wittstock chirp up now?

 

[hibou]

I'm not sure what to think of all this. To me it sounds like a father trying to protect his daughter's reputation which you can't blame him for doing. However it does make her look a bit foolish - how can one, an older athlete train hard and still be away from her coach for what appears extended periods of time? I see how Harry and Chelsy do it but for what ever reason I have been lead to believe Charlene is away from her coach for longer periods of time ie. reports of her in Paris, PGW, if all that is assumed true that is to say. None of it makes sense. Also the bit about Monaco needing her, again Dad's proud of his daughter and is doing his PR thing again like we saw before. It is interesting that we are hearing from him again after all these months.Wonder what is truly up?

 

[pinklady1991]

I hope I am wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is an announcement from the Palace after the holidays.

Re: her training. 2 1/2 hours in South Africa and less when in Monaco? Unless she is using the pool in Monaco as her private training ground -- she has no intention in competing in Beijing.

 

[Zonk]

I do wish that father of hers would shut up...he is her own worst enemy!

 

[MyAdia]

I hope I am wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is an announcement from the Palace after the holidays.

Re: her training. 2 1/2 hours in South Africa and less when in Monaco? Unless she is using the pool in Monaco as her private training ground -- she has no intention in competing in Beijing.

Charlene seems to saying all the right things that looks good to a man like Prince Albert. Prince Albert has always stated in an interview this summer that he likes a simple woman and he stated previously that he always wondered if a girl like him for himself. So, the comment that Charlene is very independent, cannot be bought, and her ultimate dream is training for the 2008 Olympics looks very good to a man like Albert. But, how much of it is real? As Pinky mentioned, so what if you supply your own clothes if the man is supplying EVERYTHING else, including where you live. Her own coach does not seem optimistic that she is in serious condition to be competitive to even qualify for the Olympics, but it sounds good and and doesn't look like an opportunist. It just reminds me of the bragging that Nicole did that she never ask Albert for one penny while she was dating. So what. Especially if you have larger goals, why sweat the small stuff.

I'm sorry but I am very cynical when it comes to women who boast about the honor and independence from a man, but are willing to turn a blind eye to his dalliances with other women. It just doesn't add up. But, there is something, just a little something, about Charlene that I like.

 

[hibou]

Charlene seems to saying all the right things that looks good to a man like Prince Albert. Prince Albert has always stated in an interview this summer that he likes a simple woman and he stated previously that he always wondered if a girl like him for himself. So, the comment that Charlene is very independent, cannot be bought, and her ultimate dream is training for the 2008 Olympics looks very good to a man like Albert. But, how much of it is real? As Pinky mentioned, so what if you supply your own clothes if the man is supplying EVERYTHING else, including where you live. Her own coach does not seem optimistic that she is in serious condition to be competitive to even qualify for the Olympics, but it sounds good and and doesn't look like an opportunist. It just reminds me of the bragging that Nicole did that she never ask Albert for one penny while she was dating. So what. Especially if you have larger goals, why sweat the small stuff.

I'm sorry but I am very cynical when it comes to women who boast about the honor and independence from a man, but are willing to turn a blind eye to his dalliances with other women. It just doesn't add up. But, there is something, just a little something, about Charlene that I like.

I'm no fan of CHarlene's by a long shot but you have to admire her olympic determination to become princess of monaco - the heck with pride, and reputation that's what daddy Wittstock is for- to cover. They are quite a team. Pink, I'm fear you may be right about an announcemnt but I hope since Albert has not gotten to the altar yet he will not be pushed by her. He has had so many friends with benefits over the summer that I can't imagine she isn't just a women of convenience (or maybe inconvenience) for the time being.

 

[BurberryBrit]

Her father is obviously trying to clean up her mess: the comment about it being no secret the Albert flirts is to explain the pics of Charlene at the airport looking at the magazine with him and the black woman on the boat. Then he's trying to say, Charlene is not after the crown. Like hell! Charlene is very very good. She's playing the game very well. I can't believe she's still around. When I look at women like her--not exceptionally pretty, boring, manly looking--it makes me wonder how she even got close enough to Albert to make him notice her? I know that sounds horrible, but what's so special about her? Forgive this quote but I was watching Pride and Prejudice 2 nights ago: "Are the shades of [Monaco] to be thus polluted?"

Can Albert be this stupid? I can't believe he waits for all these years for the right woman but he settles for Charlene. What was the point? It's time to start praying to St. Devote again. And I'm not even Catholique.

The only thing I agree with Dad on is Monaco needs a princess. But, Charlene is not the one.

 

[paca]

I do wish that father of hers would shut up...he is her own worst enemy!

She hates to be hidden. She is a headline junky and the fact that people are speculating about a break up must be driving her mad. I knew daddy ad granny would resurface eventually. Yes, those reliable German genes that Bunte doesn't fail to point out.... Sometimes reliability can be a curse....