The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Dutch Royals > Current Events Archive

Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #121  
Old 03-06-2007, 09:58 AM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 14,834
I think you misunderstood my post. They want to stop the possibility of dual citizenshiop, for members of parlament and goverment officials at least (note: this still has to be discussed).

Anyway, I highly doubt that Catharina-Amalia will ever claim the Argentinian citizenship. Alexia might do so if she marries an Argentinian for example, but I also do not expect she ever will.
__________________

__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
  #122  
Old 03-06-2007, 12:08 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: -, Spain
Posts: 1,010
Thanks for that information Marengo, holding dual citizenship myself, I'll be interested to see if this debate goes further.

As you said, I doubt Catharina-Amalia will take on Argentinian citizenship as she will be Queen of The Netherlands. Though perhaps Maxima would like her girls to be the same as her
__________________

__________________
  #123  
Old 03-06-2007, 12:20 PM
Henri M.'s Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eindhoven / Maastricht, Netherlands
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by ...sOfIa....
Thanks for that information Marengo, holding dual citizenship myself, I'll be interested to see if this debate goes further.

As you said, I doubt Catharina-Amalia will take on Argentinian citizenship as she will be Queen of The Netherlands. Though perhaps Maxima would like her girls to be the same as her
It is not really about the dual citizenship but simply hidden xenophobism by a small extreme right party. This party protested against the fact that two new state stecretaries, mrs. Nebahat Albayrak (Justice) and mr. Ahmed Aboutaleb (Social Affairs) also do have the Turkish and Morroccoan citizenship.

But the real issue behind this is the fact that there are islamic people in the new Cabinet. This party shouted about 'A tsunami of Islam is engulfing the Netherlands!' and 'The islamists are taking over our country!'. Their leader, mr. Wilders, denied that his action against the two new state-secretaries was islamophobic. He stated: if a minister had the Swedish nationality and a blonde hairdo, I would have protested as well (no one believes this).

Because of all this, suddenly the double nationalities of Queen Beatrix, her sisters and Princess Máxima became topic of a debate in the media.
__________________
  #124  
Old 03-06-2007, 03:20 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: , Canada
Posts: 48
I wasn't aware that the Queen and her sisters had dual citizenship. Do any other members of the royal family have it as well? Thanks.
__________________
  #125  
Old 03-06-2007, 03:32 PM
Henri M.'s Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eindhoven / Maastricht, Netherlands
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gisela
I wasn't aware that the Queen and her sisters had dual citizenship. Do any other members of the royal family have it as well? Thanks.
Only The Queen, Princess Irene, Princess Margriet and Princess Christina: British on base of the Sophia Naturalization Act.

And Princess Máxima: Argentinean on base of the Argentinean civic law.

__________________
  #126  
Old 03-07-2007, 08:39 AM
fee's Avatar
fee fee is offline
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 159
Could they claim british citizenship or do they hold it already?
And why would Beatrix apply for the acknowlegdement of her british citizenship if she is the head of the dutch monarchy.
In case the dutch ever get tired of their royals and force them into exile, I could imagine a second passport comes in handy however, there will certainly be other countries offering asylum
BTW, WA and his brothers are certainly eligible for german citizenship too, as sons of a german father.
But as I wondered, being entitled to and actually holding it are two different things.
__________________
  #127  
Old 03-07-2007, 10:12 AM
Henri M.'s Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eindhoven / Maastricht, Netherlands
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by fee
Could they claim british citizenship or do they hold it already?
No one knows. The Rijksvoorlichtingsdienst (State Information Agency) sees this as private. The Sophia Naturalization Act was repelled in 1948. All four daughters of Queen Juliana were born before 1948.

Do not forget that the Netherlands and Netherlands East Indies were occupied in World War II and that the Dutch royals were in exile in the United Kingdom (Queen Wilhelmina and Prince Bernhard) and in Canada (Princess Juliana, Princess Beatrix, Princess Irene and Princess Margriet).

It is most likely that British passports were obtained in the war years. The Queen and her sisters are daughters of a German. The Prince of Orange and his brothers are sons of a German. Indeed, all of them can apply for German citizenship.
__________________
  #128  
Old 03-07-2007, 04:49 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: san francisco, United States
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
It is not really about the dual citizenship but simply hidden xenophobism by a small extreme right party. This party protested against the fact that two new state stecretaries, mrs. Nebahat Albayrak (Justice) and mr. Ahmed Aboutaleb (Social Affairs) also do have the Turkish and Morroccoan citizenship.

But the real issue behind this is the fact that there are islamic people in the new Cabinet. This party shouted about 'A tsunami of Islam is engulfing the Netherlands!' and 'The islamists are taking over our country!'. Their leader, mr. Wilders, denied that his action against the two new state-secretaries was islamophobic. He stated: if a minister had the Swedish nationality and a blonde hairdo, I would have protested as well (no one believes this).

Because of all this, suddenly the double nationalities of Queen Beatrix, her sisters and Princess Máxima became topic of a debate in the media.
well explained, Henri M., this is exactly what's going on.
__________________
  #129  
Old 03-07-2007, 04:51 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: san francisco, United States
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Only The Queen, Princess Irene, Princess Margriet and Princess Christina: British on base of the Sophia Naturalization Act.



Beatrix <british>, holy! If anything, the DRF has more german blood running thru its veins than the average German. But waitaminute...now that I think about it, so does the Windsor Clan! They're Germans originally (not to be snide about this, but it's true)

As for Amalia..I'm with the consensus..if she wants to become queen of the netherlands, being <the> nominal representative of that country, it would be a bit strange if she actively pursued getting the citizenship of another nation.
__________________
  #130  
Old 03-07-2007, 08:27 PM
Verde Esmeralda's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Anyway, I highly doubt that Catharina-Amalia will ever claim the Argentinian citizenship. Alexia might do so if she marries an Argentinian for example, but I also do not expect she ever will.
I do not expect it either... jaja why would she? I believe that mastering Spanish would be enough from both of them, if they wanted to honour her mother's roots in some way...

Btw, Henri M., great explanation on the dual citizenship matter!
__________________
  #131  
Old 03-07-2007, 09:37 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ny, United States
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by ...sOfIa....
Thanks for that information Marengo, holding dual citizenship myself, I'll be interested to see if this debate goes further.

As you said, I doubt Catharina-Amalia will take on Argentinian citizenship as she will be Queen of The Netherlands. Though perhaps Maxima would like her girls to be the same as her
That's if the instutition of "Queen" exists in what, 45 or so years from now? The way things are going in Europe, with the decline of the "royal" institution, and the view that "national pride" is somehow sinful rising, I'm not sure there will be such an insitution in the Netherlands as well as in other countries.
__________________
  #132  
Old 03-08-2007, 06:37 AM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 14,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
Beatrix <british>, holy! If anything, the DRF has more german blood running thru its veins than the average German. But waitaminute...now that I think about it, so does the Windsor Clan! They're Germans originally (not to be snide about this, but it's true)
.
Well, the Germans are traditionally the biggest group of immigrants in The Netherlands Olga, over half of the population can trace it's roots back to Germany. Most of them have integrated rather well though, so we won' t call the Brenninckmeijers or Dreesmann's Germans

-
To kaffir: though this might not be the thread to expand on the future of the Dutch monarchy, I am rather certain that they will stay on their place for the next decades. If anything the RF sees to have become more popular and more present in the press the last decade or so. Even the most left socialist party changed their anti-moarchy point of view. So there is no social or political base to change to a republic in the near future. If anything, an integrated Europe makes the need for national symbols like the monarchy larger, so I do not see a republican threat from that either. I do not see the Dutch ryal institution decline, o the contrary (due to Beatrix).
__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
  #133  
Old 03-08-2007, 05:53 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ny, United States
Posts: 311
Yeah probably not the thread, but interesting points Marengo.
__________________
  #134  
Old 03-09-2007, 04:34 PM
CATS's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: swift current, Canada
Posts: 178
Princess Olga; the saying about the Windsors being german is no longer true. True they do still have some, but its very watered down, presay when you get to the Queens grandchildren.

Princess catherina-Amalia is adorable.
__________________
  #135  
Old 03-09-2007, 05:45 PM
Henri M.'s Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eindhoven / Maastricht, Netherlands
Posts: 1,896
All Dutch heirs have been 25% Dutch

Princess Catharina-Amalia, the hereditary Princess of Orange
50% Argentinean, 25% German and 25% Dutch
paternal grandfather: German (Claus von Amsberg jr.)
paternal grandmother: Dutch (Beatrix Queen of the Netherlands)
maternal grandfather: Argentinean (Jorge Zorreguieta Stefanini)
maternal grandmother: Argentinean (María del Carmen Cerruti Carricart)

The Prince of Orange
75% German and 25% Dutch
paternal grandfather: German (Claus von Amsberg sr.)
paternal grandmother: German (Gösta Baroness von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen)
maternal grandfather: German (Bernhard jr. Prince of Lippe-Biesterfeld)
maternal grandmother: Dutch (Juliana Queen of the Netherlands)

The Queen
75% German and 25% Dutch
paternal grandfather: German (Bernhard sr. Prince zur Lippe-Biesterfeld)
paternal grandmother: German (Armgard Baroness von Sierstorpff-Cramm)
maternal grandfather: German (Heinrich Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin)
maternal grandmother: Dutch (Wilhelmina Queen of the Netherlands)

Queen Juliana
75% German and 25% Dutch
paternal grandfather: German (Friedrich-Franz Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin)
paternal grandmother: German (Marie Princess von Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt)
maternal grandfather: Dutch (Willem III King of the Netherlands, Grand Duke of Luxembourg)
maternal grandmother: German (Emma Princess zu Waldeck und Pyrmont)

Queen Wilhelmina
50% German, 25% Russian and 25% Dutch
paternal grandfather: Dutch (Willem II King of the Netherlands, Grand Duke of Luxembourg)
paternal grandmother: Russian (Anna Paulovna Romanovna, Grand Duchess of Russia)
maternal grandfather: German (Georg-Victor Fürst zu Waldeck und Pyrmont)
maternal grandmother: German (Helena Princess of Nassau-Weilburg)
__________________
  #136  
Old 03-11-2007, 09:13 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ny, United States
Posts: 311
Maxima's grandparents weren't orginally from Germany? Many Argentines were.
__________________
  #137  
Old 03-12-2007, 05:58 AM
Henri M.'s Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eindhoven / Maastricht, Netherlands
Posts: 1,896
Rich families, from both sides

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffir
Maxima's grandparents weren't orginally from Germany? Many Argentines were.
No, the family is in Argentina for generations. The Zorreguietas are from Basque origin (= a region in Northern Spain). The first Zorreguieta in Argentina was José Antonio de Sorreguieta y Oyarzabal, Gamboa y Sagastume who moved to Salta, Argentina 1790 and was registered as "próspero comerciante" (rich merchant).

The Cerruti's (from her mother's side) are from Italian origin. The first Cerruti in Argentina was Santiago (Giacomo) Cerruti Craviotto. He was born in Varese (Liguria, Italy) in 1827, was a maritime entrepreneur and went to Argentina where he married Petrona Rita Ponce de Léon y Pastor and established himself in Pergamino, province of Buenos Aires. They were the great-grandparents of Máxima's mother. Their hacienda in Pergamino is still in the family.

The 'Argentinean' Zorreguieta's:

Máxima's father Jorge Horacio Zorreguieta is a landowner, a former minister and politician, is Presidente del Centro Azucarero Argentino (since 1984) and Presidente de la Fundación Vasco Argentina Juan de Garay (since 1995).

Máxima's grandfather Juan Antonio Zorreguieta was a banker.

Máxima's great-grandfather Amedeo Zorreguieta was a rich merchant, a government minister, a politician and mayor of the capital city of Mendoza.

Máxima's great-great-grandfather Mariano Zorreguieta was a rich merchant, a government minister, a politician, a historian, a member and president of the senate of the Province of Salta

Máxima's great-great-great-grandfather José Antonio de Sorreguieta y Oyarzabal, Gamboa y Sagastume was a rich merchant and the first Zorreguieta who established himself in Argentina. He registered his long Spanish name as 'Zorreguieta' in his new homeland.

The 'Argentinean' Cerruti's:

Máxima's grandfather dr. Jorge Cerruti was a landowner, a medical doctor and a surgeon

Máxima's great-grandfather dr. Santiago Cerruti was a landowner, a medical doctor and a surgeon

Máxima's great-great grandfather Santiago (Giacomo) Cerruti was a maritime entrepreneur and the first Cerruti who established himself in Argentina.
__________________
  #138  
Old 03-12-2007, 09:40 AM
LadyK's Avatar
Super Moderator
Picture of the Month Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cincinnati, United States
Posts: 1,967
Henri, you are a fount of information
__________________
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

  #139  
Old 03-12-2007, 12:24 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: ......, Argentina
Posts: 1,383
Henri thanks for the information on Maxima´s origins
__________________
  #140  
Old 03-12-2007, 12:57 PM
Empress's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 3,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Princess Catharina-Amalia, the hereditary Princess of Orange
50% Argentinean, 25% German and 25% Dutch
paternal grandfather: German (Claus von Amsberg jr.)
paternal grandmother: Dutch (Beatrix Queen of the Netherlands)
maternal grandfather: Argentinean (Jorge Zorreguieta Stefanini)
maternal grandmother: Argentinean (María del Carmen Cerruti Carricart)

The Prince of Orange
75% German and 25% Dutch
paternal grandfather: German (Claus von Amsberg sr.)
paternal grandmother: German (Gösta Baroness von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen)
maternal grandfather: German (Bernhard jr. Prince of Lippe-Biesterfeld)
maternal grandmother: Dutch (Juliana Queen of the Netherlands)

The Queen
75% German and 25% Dutch
paternal grandfather: German (Bernhard sr. Prince zur Lippe-Biesterfeld)
paternal grandmother: German (Armgard Baroness von Sierstorpff-Cramm)
maternal grandfather: German (Heinrich Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin)
maternal grandmother: Dutch (Wilhelmina Queen of the Netherlands)

Queen Juliana
75% German and 25% Dutch
paternal grandfather: German (Friedrich-Franz Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin)
paternal grandmother: German (Marie Princess von Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt)
maternal grandfather: Dutch (Willem III King of the Netherlands, Grand Duke of Luxembourg)
maternal grandmother: German (Emma Princess zu Waldeck und Pyrmont)

Queen Wilhelmina
50% German, 25% Russian and 25% Dutch
paternal grandfather: Dutch (Willem II King of the Netherlands, Grand Duke of Luxembourg)
paternal grandmother: Russian (Anna Paulovna Romanovna, Grand Duchess of Russia)
maternal grandfather: German (Georg-Victor Fürst zu Waldeck und Pyrmont)
maternal grandmother: German (Helena Princess of Nassau-Weilburg)
Henri - I notice in your calculations that you are using the grandparents, and not the parents. Of course that plays a factor, but you must first factor in the parents, then the grandparents. Thus - I believe that your calculations might need a bit of reworking. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that I am. If Queen Wilhelmina - as your furthest relative, is 50% German, 25% Russian, and 25% Dutch, and her husband German, by rights that made Queen Juliana indeed 75% German, 12.5% Russian, and 12.5% Dutch. Then it would stand to reason that Beatrix would be nearly 90% German, and 10% other. However, given that this is all regarding the blood line and not the actual citizenship, then I think that it is a moot point. However, in any case Catharina Amalia would be 50% Argentinian, and basically 50% german.

But since we all know that she is 100% Dutch for everyone who cares, I think that the Argentinian/German influence is somewhat minimal. She also looks 100% Dutch, but there you go.

I think that the first calculation on bloodlines first goes to the parents and only then to the grandparents, ad infinitum.
__________________

__________________
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Princesses Catharina-Amalia, Alexia and Ariane, News 3 (December 2007 - April 2013) Empress Current Events Archive 419 04-29-2013 10:14 AM
Princesses Catharina-Amalia, Alexia and Ariane, News 2 (June - December 2007) Anna_R Current Events Archive 189 12-08-2007 11:46 AM
Princess Catharina-Amalia, News and Pictures 2 (January - December 2005) Gabriella Current Events Archive 201 12-07-2005 06:14 PM
Princesses Amalia, Alexia and Ariane Picture Thread, Part 1 Princess Maxima King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima and family 29 09-25-2005 03:28 PM
Princess Catharina-Amalia, News and Pictures 1 (December 2003 - January 2005) karolinabraganza Current Events Archive 334 01-08-2005 12:57 PM




Popular Tags
belgium carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion genealogy germany grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jewellery jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg nobility official visit olympics ottoman poland president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince daniel prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:26 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]