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  #141  
Old 04-07-2006, 02:23 PM
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Her Majesty, Queen Beatrix, has come through as pure gold!!!

Margarita should find a hole and just drop in. And what was stated about her brother, horrible. If it is true, he is sick of his sister.

It is sad that a member of HM's family would attempt to hurt her.
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  #142  
Old 04-08-2006, 02:18 PM
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The more I read of the whole affair, the more everyone in it seems shady. I wasn't didn't find the Queen's responses to be convincing.
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  #143  
Old 04-08-2006, 04:26 PM
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Oh good Alisa, I thought I missed something in that conversation, that made QB come thru in shining armor.
I thought that QB was very much in control of the conversation (something I had expected ) but not one single moment took she Margarita seriously as an adult. She handled and reprimanded her like a child. Of course Margaritas behaviour was erratic at best, her accusations and reasoning weird and childish.
Anyway, all in all I thought it was a conversation where nothing really was said. QB managed to block almost all of M. arguments with replies from your average principal. She didn't do anything to convince her niece that her arguments lacked any trace of truth. And in doing so she hasn't really washed her own hands clean, didn't she?
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  #144  
Old 04-08-2006, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fee
Anyway, all in all I thought it was a conversation where nothing really was said. QB managed to block almost all of M. arguments with replies from your average principal. She didn't do anything to convince her niece that her arguments lacked any trace of truth. And in doing so she hasn't really washed her own hands clean, didn't she?
She might've thought that there was no sense in trying to reason or rationalize with Margarita at that point. When this conversation was taped, Margarita was in the thick of Edwin's grasp. He was manipulating her and had her completely convinced that her family had turned against her.

Beatrix would've been wasting her breath to try and rationalize or reason with Margarita with any valid arguments or comments.

It's like when you see a child throwing a tantrum in a grocery store because he or she wants some treat. You wouldn't launch into a full explanation about why the child couldn't have the chocolate bar, but you would wait until the child had stopped crying or stomping his feet then explained why.
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  #145  
Old 04-08-2006, 05:19 PM
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From the transcripts, it appears the Queen was very angry and had her own issues with Margarita's behavior for good reason. Its hard to listen to other people's issues when you have some of your own. Both women seemed to have felt betrayed by the other. For whatever reason Margarita did not seem able to make any sense and the Queen didn't appear to be in the right frame of mind to hear Margarita out and get to the root of the problem to find some way out of the madness.

Perhaps a decent resolution to the conversation was impossible but in that case, I think the Queen should have ended it as soon as she saw it going nowhere. Some of the accusations on both sides were a bit troubling to read and accusations like that have a way of coming back to haunt the relationship long after its patched up.

Overall a disturbing conversation.
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  #146  
Old 04-14-2006, 07:20 PM
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Yesterday Margarita won the court case against Edwin, forbidding him to open/publish the tapes he has of the conversation between Margarita and Edwin (tapes which were stolen according to Edwin. Margarita's lawyer stated that as soon as Edwin even smells those tapes he is obliged to return them to the Princess.
Some more details were made public in a press conference Edwin held yesterday. According to the prima donna his soon to be ex-wife was paranoid, even taping conversations at the bakeryshop. Margarita's version was that she taped the conversation to show Edwin that she really stood up for him in the presence of the queen.
The Diva also announced that he has other tapes which are more shocking.
And to close it all, he has a new dog (after he lost custody of dog Paco) which is named...Pablo. The guy is a freak.
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  #147  
Old 04-14-2006, 09:27 PM
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Margarita has got to be regretting the day she married this fool!
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  #148  
Old 04-14-2006, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Watcher
More from BRMB




I have to disagree with some of you reg. Beatrix's tone and attitude as represented by the transcript of the tape (which experts seem to agree on is the real deal).

Yes I do think that Edwin is a delusional, self important freak, and I also believe that that is and was the initial reason/ground for the Orange family to not take a shine to him.

However, all the same: the tone of Beatrix in this transcript towards her niece is very very patronizing. Condescending even. Beatrix clearly sees herself as the parent reprimanding the non-conformist child. She doesn't in other words, for most of the conversation, take Margarita seriously. Which I think is very disrespectful.

Moreover, it's clear that QB for most of the conversation, instead of reacting to the accusations and allegations of Margarita, chooses the strategy of personal and on-the-person attack, as to, one could argue, distract from the main issue: was Margaritha cum husband ever harrassed by the Queen's own office, or not? That was the issue. But QB sidesteps it again and again in this conversation. For example, to quote from the excerpt:

"Princess Margarita:
I can prove all this.

Queen Beatrix:
Proofs? If you can not spell the name of Rhodius for once, and that is no chef of the Cabinet [the Kabinet der Koningin, the Queen's Office / HM] but the director of the Cabinet."



Very condescending. As if the fact that Margaritha misspels a name, would indicate that she is wrong on all other accounts, too. (This by te way is a typical conversational tactic when someone isn't able to provide a decent counter-argument in a conversation: they then resort to playing it on the person, as they say. That's what Beatrix did.)

Now, I'm not saying anything here against Beatrix per se. She is in my opinion the best and most professional member of the DRF.

But at the same time, it has turned out as fact that Margaritha and de Roy were right on at least one point of accusation: There WAS an investigation by the gov. into them at some point.

The couple may have not been eavesdropped on, but it has been acknkowledged that there had been investigations into Edwin at least, even when there was no (security or other) reason to do so. Worse, Beatrix denied this, even though she was aware that the investigation (mild as it might have been, checking with Edwin's employers for example) had happened.

I think that this gave an already paranoid Margaritha more food for (sometimes delusional) thought.

In short: I think Beatrix, in this conversation is trying to distract from where the gov/B's office, did Margaritha wrong. And that's as sad as the paranoia by Edwin and Margaritha that followed it.
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  #149  
Old 04-14-2006, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Wow! Thank you The Watcher. Did Edwin really think this recorded conversation would embarass the Royal House? It just shows how formidable Queen Beatrix is, and how Margarita's "poor pity me" act went down like a lead balloon.
She is formidable indeed, not to be taken advantage of that is certain.
She seems to be a real level-headed person (although I agree she does seem to talk to the lady in a way that is patronizing). Beatrix even seems like she is also trying to give some advice, certainly she is seen to being patient with this neice, which comments show she obviously does care about the lady, in spite of the problem!
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  #150  
Old 04-14-2006, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fee
Oh good Alisa, I thought I missed something in that conversation, that made QB come thru in shining armor.
I thought that QB was very much in control of the conversation (something I had expected ) but not one single moment took she Margarita seriously as an adult. She handled and reprimanded her like a child. Of course Margaritas behaviour was erratic at best, her accusations and reasoning weird and childish.
[..]
QB managed to block almost all of M. arguments with replies from your average principal. She didn't do anything to convince her niece that her arguments lacked any trace of truth. And in doing so she hasn't really washed her own hands clean, didn't she?
Couldn;t agree more. This is actually what shocked me the most. Because in the end. Beatrix knew full well that there actually HAD been an investigation on her/the government's behalf into Edwin. Granted, not nearly on the level that Edwin alleges, but all the same, there was an investigation, totally unnecessary legally, but it was done. And Beatrix knew (instigated???) it.

I am surprised you all are so content with the tone of B. At best, QB's attitude and response remind me of when my parents (same nationality, same generation --strongly disagree with some of my choices, although they've never sounded this condesending luckily! Or, yes, of a school principal who feels she's right simply because she has ages and decades on the other person!

It would have been classier of B. to have simply cut the conversation short. To say sth along the lines of: well, since we clearly don't see eye to eye on this one, let's continue this at some other, better point in time. Or something like that. instead of trying to evade someone else's peeve with you by telling them the devil has gotten in them. That just plain smacks of disdain, condescencion, haughtiness, snobbiness.
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  #151  
Old 04-15-2006, 05:10 AM
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I think that the 'Hey, looks like my mother's talking to me' tone of Beatrix is just the one things that doesn't make this tape half as shocking as some people thought it would be. Maybe it's not nice to say that the devil has gotten into someone, but well... what do we know about it? Maybe Beatrix's tone was a bit haughty, but I think that was to be expected. The queen tends to do her own way and there's not much we or Margarite can change about that. So if she finds that she has to let others investigate Edwin, she lets others invetigate Edwin. I'm really not interested what she has to say about that in private to her niece, but well: Edwin thought something else and here we are, listening to businesses which don't concern us. And since we're reading these transcriptions, I think we can safely say that the queen maybe came across as a snob or haughty, but it could have been much worse...

Having an image of the queen in my head (I mean, I've followed her for quite some years know) I have to say that she reacted just the way I expected her to react. So nothing shocking, imo.
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  #152  
Old 04-15-2006, 06:03 AM
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I might be misinformed, but I believe the problem was that not the goverment but the cabinet of the Queen, headed by mister Rhodius did the investigation. Officially without the knowledge of the PM and the Queen herself. But please correct me if I am wrong, princess Olga. The rumours had it that Prince Bernhard 'ordered' him to do so. A series of debates in parlement made sure that this could never happen again and now the cabinet of the Queen is placed under the direct responsibility of the prime minister. So to say that the goverment ordered the investigation is not right.

I noticed the patronising tone of the Queen as well, but I was not as disappointed by it as others were. We do not know how many letters, conversations etc. the two had previously (as Margarita said she taped it to show her husband that she defended him in her conversationS with the queen I assume there were more). She comes across as extremely surprised and annoyed by it all, especially by the fact that Margarita decided to send this PRIVATE letter to the prime minister.
Her defence of mr Rhodius is remarkable indeed, as the guy indeed did some research later on (officially without the Queens knowledge).
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  #153  
Old 04-15-2006, 08:49 AM
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I think what troubles some people as fee mentioned above is that not much of real substance was really said in the conversation despite the accusations thrown on both sides. And in that case, why have it at all?

We don't know what other conversations they had, maybe they were able to patch things up later. But in this conversation at least, if Beatrix just wanted to make clear that Margarita shouldn't send such letters to the prime minister, that point got lost in the point-counterpoint debate of the discussion.

So the question remains, what was Beatrix' purpose for having the conversation with Margarita? If it was just to shut Margarita down, she succeeded but only temporarily. Margarita wouldn't stay shut down forever if she was with Edwin.

If that was the only reason, I think the Queen was better off not having the conversation with Margarita.
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  #154  
Old 04-15-2006, 09:06 AM
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This situation brings another question, my apologies if this has been answered before.

Was Margarita's marriage approved by the normal channels or did she do like Johan-Friso and get married without government permission?
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  #155  
Old 04-15-2006, 09:10 AM
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Margarita is not a member of the Royal House (not in line of succession) as her mother, Princess Irene, married without the approval of the dutch goverment (due to her marriage to the duke of Parma). So Margarita did not have to seek aproval of the goverment like Friso.
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  #156  
Old 04-15-2006, 09:41 AM
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Thanks Marengo. I'm not well-versed in the lives of the nieces and nephews of Queen Beatrix.

If Margarita was not in the line of succession to begin with, I'm surprised that even the Queen's Cabinet and Mr. Rhodius made an investigation into Edwin.

The fact that she married an unsuitable and manipulative partner was a concern for the family but it seems hardly a matter for the Cabinet unless they were concerned that Margarita would come across confidential government papers and reveal them to Edwin. But I think Queen Beatrix was too smart to let anyone outside of Willem-Alexander have access or knowledge of such things.
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  #157  
Old 04-15-2006, 10:55 AM
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Article April 14

Mabel 'demanded silence' over drug baron

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...ith+drug+baron
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  #158  
Old 04-15-2006, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
I might be misinformed, but I believe the problem was that not the goverment but the cabinet of the Queen, headed by mister Rhodius did the investigation. Officially without the knowledge of the PM and the Queen herself. But please correct me if I am wrong, princess Olga. The rumours had it that Prince Bernhard 'ordered' him to do so. A series of debates in parlement made sure that this could never happen again and now the cabinet of the Queen is placed under the direct responsibility of the prime minister. So to say that the goverment ordered the investigation is not right.

[..]
Her defence of mr Rhodius is remarkable indeed, as the guy indeed did some research later on (officially without the Queens knowledge).
Marengo, you are absolutely right: as far as has been revealed, the government was NOT the body initiating the investigation into Edwin & his past: Mr. Rhodius was.

Which is all the more remarkable since he is, as director of the cabinet of the queen, directly working for the queen, Margaritha's aunt. Which in itself of course immediately begs the question: did Beatrix know about this or even order the research into Edwin's life?
(Of course, one could say that the government is legally responsible for anything the queen does, including for the actions of her cabinet, which was where my confusion came from)

Again, I think Edwin is a borderline idiot, he reminds me of Don Quichote really. He has stated many many things that have turned out to be blatently false.

All the same, Beatrix is in this matter not exactly squeaky clean either, I'm disappointed to find. If she did in fact have anything to do with her cabinet head Rhodius's quest to dig into the private life of Edwin, she was not only morally and ethically, but also legally completely off base.

As for her tone of voice in the tape transcripts, Maxie, you have a point that it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise. And no, the content itself is not too shocking. It's more when reading between the lines that you realize that Beatrix is not exactly clean in this sad affair.

I repeat: she or/and Rhodius had no legal right whatsoever to stick their snooty noses into Edwin's life, whether or not Edwin is a huge fool and someone who you'd rather not add into the family fold.
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  #159  
Old 04-28-2006, 11:39 AM
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I cant believe what Edwin de Roy van Zuydewijn said about Princess MAXIMA being a Gold digger!

http://members3.boardhost.com/Benelu...146234242.html

Is Maxima consider like that or this guy is nuts?
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  #160  
Old 04-28-2006, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orianna
I cant believe what Edwin de Roy van Zuydewijn said about Princess MAXIMA being a Gold digger!

http://members3.boardhost.com/Benelu...146234242.html

Is Maxima consider like that or this guy is nuts?
I think that Edwin de Roy van Zuydewijn is referring to himself :p .
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