Would They Have Married?

[Artemisia]

I'd say definitely less.
Doubt if Zara's royal connections influenced her relationship with Mike in any way.

 

[camelot23ca]

I think Victoria and Daniel would have married regardless.

I think both Pavlos and Marie Chantal were likely brought up with an implicit understanding of what sort of spouses they should be looking for, and they both did what was expected of them, (as did both of MC's sisters). That said, they seem to truly love each other; sometimes it's not the worst idea to think as well as feel when you're choosing a partner.

IMO, it's harder to get a feel for the relationships of the older generations, like JC and Sofia or Elizabeth and Phillip. The criteria for a successful marriage back then for people in their position were so different compared to today. Phillip probably had a bit more freedom, but the pool of people Juan Carlos, Sofia and Elizabeth could have married was very small. For example, Elizabeth couldn't marry a commoner, a Catholic or a German. That left a relatively small number of men around her own age from the British aristocracy and a few foreign royal families.

 

[Artemisia]

For example, Elizabeth couldn't marry a commoner, a Catholic or a German. That left a relatively small number of men around her own age from the British aristocracy and a few foreign royal families.

That is to say, I understand why she couldn't marry a German (World War II) or a Catholic (Act of Settlement), but why not a commoner?
Elizabeth could have married a titled aristocrat, an officer or just a middle-class man with some noble/aristocratic background without any issued.

 

[AdmirerUS]

Artemisia - While I agree Elizabeth could have married a commoner don't you think the prevailing custom practically precluded that alternative? The grey suits and all that were a bit stiff then. As it was, she had to stomp her foot a bit to get Phillip approved.

It's like Charles being so strongly expected to marry a virgin. It seems silly now - but then there was little funny about it at the time.

 

[NGalitzine]

Indeed, Elizabeth's father had a whole slew of young officers from aristocratic families lined up as potential husbands, she just wasn't interested in them as anything other than dance partners and friends. Queen Mary referred to them as The Body Guard.

 

[Daria_S]

That is to say, I understand why she couldn't marry a German (World War II) or a Catholic (Act of Settlement), but why not a commoner?
Elizabeth could have married a titled aristocrat, an officer or just a middle-class man with some noble/aristocratic background without any issued.

You're absolutely correct. I remember reading in Robert Lacey's biography of Her Majesty, that it was very much hoped that Elizabeth would marry one of the officers that were invited to various parties, and therefore, she was encouraged to socialize with them. However, the Princess knew her mind, and wanted to marry none other than Philip of Greece and Denmark.

 

[camelot23ca]

Elizabeth could have married a titled aristocrat, an officer or just a middle-class man with some noble/aristocratic background without any issued.

I'll amend my statement to say she would have needed to marry a very uncommon commoner. We can quibble over exactly where the line would have been drawn, but IMO the reality is that Elizabeth's family, the royal court and the majority of the British people expected her to marry someone with a certain sort of pedigree... the kind of pedigree that a relatively small number of men have.

 

[Artemisia]

Artemisia - While I agree Elizabeth could have married a commoner don't you think the prevailing custom practically precluded that alternative? The grey suits and all that were a bit stiff then. As it was, she had to stomp her foot a bit to get Phillip approved.

I'll agree that the Queen could hardly marry a penniless Joe. Then again, she never socialised with such people: her entire circle of acquaintances consisted of men who'd be deemed more than eligible. And don't forget that her own mother was a commoner!

You're absolutely correct. I remember reading in Robert Lacey's biography of Her Majesty, that it was very much hoped that Elizabeth would marry one of the officers that were invited to various parties, and therefore, she was encouraged to socialize with them. However, the Princess knew her mind, and wanted to marry none other than Philip of Greece and Denmark.

Indeed, Elizabeth's father had a whole slew of young officers from aristocratic families lined up as potential husbands, she just wasn't interested in them as anything other than dance partners and friends. Queen Mary referred to them as The Body Guard.

I've read about it too, Daria and NGalitzine. In post-war Britain, it would have been quite morally uplifting if the young Princess married a dashing British officer who had distinguished himself in teh field of battle. That she actually did but the only problem with Prince Philip was that, despite fighting for Britain during World War II, he was a "Greek" or a "German" - but certainly not British.

I'll amend my statement to say she would have needed to marry a very uncommon commoner. We can quibble over exactly where the line would have been drawn, but IMO the reality is that Elizabeth's family, the royal court and the majority of the British people expected her to marry someone with a certain sort of pedigree... the kind of pedigree that a relatively small number of men have.

Of course, there was always a very high expectation of the future Queen's husband.
There were the traditionalists who expected nothing short of a royal -royal wedding (and who were quite happy with Elizabeth's choice), then there were those who'd prefer and English/British husband for the Queen (they still grumble), and those who simply accepted a man from a proper (aristocratic or noble) background.

I wouldn't say there was a small number though: any officer with relatively untarnished reputation, any son of a noble or aristocrat, anyone with some pedigree would probably have been considered a suitable match.

 

[camelot23ca]

Of course, there was always a very high expectation of the future Queen's husband.
There were the traditionalists who expected nothing short of a royal -royal wedding (and who were quite happy with Elizabeth's choice), then there were those who'd prefer and English/British husband for the Queen (they still grumble), and those who simply accepted a man from a proper (aristocratic or noble) background.

I wouldn't say there was a small number though: any officer with relatively untarnished reputation, any son of a noble or aristocrat, anyone with some pedigree would probably have been considered a suitable match.

I don't agree that she could have married any officer with untarnished reputation. The officer would have had to have been from, as you say above, a proper background. I'm not familiar enough with the composition of the British officer class in WWII to know whether 'officer' would have been synonymous with 'proper background' back then - maybe it would have been, at least for the officers allowed to come into contact with the young princesses.
In terms of whether the eligible group was small or not, well, there would have been a couple of suitable foreign royals, including Phillip. There would have been a certain number of aristocrats or relatives of aristocrats or members of old, respectable land owning families. Cross off the list those too old or too young. Cross off those who weren't single. Also those who had any scandal in their past. And those who would want no part of royal life. And then probably Elizabeth would simply have disliked some of the ones remaining, and vice versa. To me that's not a huge pool of men, at least not in relation to the group of people the current generation of royals can meet and marry...... OTOH, I guess it only takes one!

 

[Artemisia]

Not disputing what you wrote, just one observation.
Most officers in the British Army during World War II and earlier (at least those of the rank of Lieutenant and above) came from noble or aristocratic background; a lot were Etonians, Harrovians or Wykemists. That's certainly true for those who were officers by the start of the war: in fact, merely to become an officer you needed a "proper" background in most cases.

Of course, the rank could have also been acquired through distinguished service in Armed Forces, especially in wartime. But even so, most of the higher-ranking officers came from nobility, aristocracy and gentry.

 

[NGalitzine]

Elizabeths social circle was incredibly small, and she had led a very sheltered life at Buckingham Palace, Windsor and Balmoral. Short of falling in love with a footman or a guardsman the chance of her coming into close enough contact with a man of a non-suitable station in life to even contemplate marriage was pretty much nil.

 

[Queen Camilla]

I don't think the Queen would have been allowed to marry anyone w/o a title.

Queen Mary, George VI and her mother were still alive and all would have seen to it that she married a Prince.

IMO, Phillip was only accepted by the royal family as they were familar with him & he was a relative.

Phillip had been part of the Queen's life since she was 13.

 

[bertie5252003]

Daniel would never have married Victoria if she had been anyone else
Elizabeth and Phillip never
I could go on but I think you have to marry someone for one reason or another and if it's what they have and you want it well why not is that harsh I don't believe so ...
Margaret and Antony not if she had been plain ol' Meg Smith and so on but she had something he wanted so there it is ... but that is just the way I see it and if the other person feels okay aboutthat then well who am I to say it's not ok!!!! IMO of course

 

[HRHHermione]

Daniel would never have married Victoria if she had been anyone else

I think that's very cynical and also that there are no available facts that support this conclusion. In fact, I believe their relationship would have been much easier on Daniel had Victoria not been who she is.

 

[Daria_S]

Daniel would never have married Victoria if she had been anyone else
Elizabeth and Phillip never
I could go on but I think you have to marry someone for one reason or another and if it's what they have and you want it well why not is that harsh I don't believe so ...
Margaret and Antony not if she had been plain ol' Meg Smith and so on but she had something he wanted so there it is ... but that is just the way I see it and if the other person feels okay aboutthat then well who am I to say it's not ok!!!! IMO of course

This is definitely one cynical view. Sure, a person's prospects should be considered, but not the sole reason that a marriage occurs. We all have our 'musts' that we want our ideal partner to possess, but if he/she has everything you want except wealth and status, you'd be a fool to let love slip through your fingers.

I think that's very cynical and also that there are no available facts that support this conclusion. In fact, I believe their relationship would have been much easier on Daniel had Victoria not been who she is.

Absolutely true. I think it would have been easier on all royal/non-aristocrat courtships if the royal wasn't a royal. No worries about press, or the entire world watching your life before and after the wedding.

 

[Queen Camilla]

Elizabeth and Phillip never

Please explain your reason.

 

[Muhler]

Not disputing what you wrote, just one observation.
Most officers in the British Army during World War II and earlier (at least those of the rank of Lieutenant and above) came from noble or aristocratic background; a lot were Etonians, Harrovians or Wykemists. That's certainly true for those who were officers by the start of the war: in fact, merely to become an officer you needed a "proper" background in most cases.

Of course, the rank could have also been acquired through distinguished service in Armed Forces, especially in wartime. But even so, most of the higher-ranking officers came from nobility, aristocracy and gentry.

Only in the beginning.
It's true that an officer's caste existed during the Victorian and Edwardian eras, especially in the "finer" regiments. On top of that many public schools also trained their pupils to be cadets, giving them a basic officers training.
But there was also a cadre of professional career officers, who fought their way up through the ranks, rarely reaching higher than major. Not least in the colonial regiments.
The casualty rate among junior officers in WWI was so high that the nobillity simply couldn't keep up. That meant that officers were drafted pretty early on from the middle class, preferably academics. That was in particular the case with "kitchener's army" by early 1916.
They were killed off just as fast, so by 1917 officers who had been promoted from the ranks were common.

By WWII many of those junior officers who had survived WWI and stayed on in the army had reached the rank of colonel or brigadier.
When Britain mobilized in 1939, the officers were again primarily drafted from those who had an academic background.
Most younger sons and middle aged men of the nobility had attended a university of some sort, hence the reason why they again constituted such a proportionally high number of officers.
But WWII was a different kind of war, demanding a different and higher level of professional skills from the officers. So soon officers were promoted based on merit, not background. On top of that promotion was swifter than in WWI, were a lieutenant might be lucky to survive long enough to become a major. And that was often it, - for the very brutal reason that the casualty rate among staff officers was low.

 

[Zonk]

Daniel would never have married Victoria if she had been anyone else
Elizabeth and Phillip never
I could go on but I think you have to marry someone for one reason or another and if it's what they have and you want it well why not is that harsh I don't believe so ...
Margaret and Antony not if she had been plain ol' Meg Smith and so on but she had something he wanted so there it is ... but that is just the way I see it and if the other person feels okay aboutthat then well who am I to say it's not ok!!!! IMO of course

I disagree with the Victoria and Daniel assessment but I understand that this is your opinion.

I think Daniel married Victoria despite who she was. I think he would have been happy if she was plain old Victoria from Sweden instead of being the Crown Princess of Sweden.

 

[QUEENECE29]

Daniel and Victoria (if she wasn't the crown princess) = Yes more than certainly.

Henrik and Margrethe (if she wasn't the crown princess) = little effective

Philip and Elizabeth (if she wasn't the heiress apparent) = to be very effective in the crown princess

Constantine and Anne-Marie (if she wasn't a Danish princess) = somewhat effective, the title is important, but there is also love

Juan Carlos and Sofia (if she wasn't a Greek princess) = fully for both the title and the logic marriage

Pavlos and Marie Chantal (if she wasn't as wealthy as she is) = Rich in terms of acceptance is important.

Ranier and Grace (is she hadn't been an actress) = totally love match

Antony and Margaret (if she wasn't the Queen's sister) = No

 

[Andolini]

Elizabeths social circle was incredibly small, and she had led a very sheltered life at Buckingham Palace, Windsor and Balmoral. Short of falling in love with a footman or a guardsman the chance of her coming into close enough contact with a man of a non-suitable station in life to even contemplate marriage was pretty much nil.

Very good assessment of the reality of the situations! BECAUSE of her position, Her Majesty was limited in the number of and the kind of gentlemen she dealt with in a social manner. However, i do believe, just my opinion from books and such, that Prince Phillip was NOT the initial ideal choice according to her parents and grandmother. I read somewhere (forgive my senility, I cannot remember where!) that the Queen Mum used to call him "the Hun" (forgive me, I am not intentionally trying to insult anyone or any culture, merely paraphrasing)and because of the time and his background, resisted match. This was WWII era, very different from now, wounds still healing, people were still recovering emotionally! Which brings me to my perhaps favorite match: Queen Beatrix and Prince Claus!! Same sort of circumstances - after the war, though later, but they forged on in spite of his nationality. Bomb threats and such on their wedding day! But Prince Claus, rest his soul, turned out to be the most beloved member of that royal family, and for good reason. My point, excuse my wordiness, is that I believe Her Majesty has always loved just Prince Phillip, and he had to go through somewhat of row to marry her. Watch them today, and there IS love on both sides.

 

[carlota]

Would they have married them?

I was wondering if certain of today’s royals would have married their significant someone had they not been royals. What are your thoughts?

Would…

1. Kate have married William had he not been royal?
2. Letizia married felipe?
3. Mary married fred?
4. Mette marit married Haakon?
5. Daniel married Victoria?
6. Maxima married WA?
7. Mathilde married philippe?
8. Stephanie married guillaume?
9. Charlene married albert?
10. Marie married Joachim?
11. Masako married naruhito?
12. Salma married mohammed?
13. Marie Chantal married pavlos?
14. Iñaki married cristina?
15. Chris married Madeleine?
16. Sophia marrid carl phillip? (when she does next year?)
17. Ari behn married Martha?
18. Maria Teresa married henri?
19. Claire married felix of Luxembourg?
20. Tessy married Louis of Luxembourg?


What are your thoughts?

 

[carlota]

my thoughts...

1. Kate have married William had he not been royal? No..
2. Letizia married felipe? possibly, had they both been professionally successful
3. Mary married fred? No..
4. Mette marit married Haakon? Totally
5. Daniel married Victoria? Totally
6. Maxima married WA? possibly, had they both been professionally successful
7. Mathilde married philippe? and 8. Stephanie married guillaume? I don't think either of these ladies were too concerned by the title or the fame. they were already aristocrats in their own right so on that note, i will say yes.
9. Charlene married albert? I don't know much about them enough to have an opinion...
10. Marie married Joachim? I don't know much about them enough to have an opinion...
11. Masako married naruhito? totally.
12. Salma married mohammed? Not sure.
13. Marie Chantal married pavlos? No.
14. Iñaki married cristina? No.
15. Chris married Madeleine? I don't think Chris cares about the title (which he demonstrated) but I doubt he would have married someone with no status
16. Sophia married carl phillip? (when she does next year?) Maybe, don't know much about them
17. Ari behn married Martha? Yes
18. Maria Teresa married henri? Yes
19. Claire married felix of Luxembourg? Yes
20. Tessy married Louis of Luxembourg? Totally...

 

[Lee-Z]

imo especially Daniel and Masako seem to have overcome a lot before or in their marriage, so I'd say they are now married "despite" their respective partner being royal...

Charlene & Albert: I think they are not a bad match, but I'm not so sure Albert would have been the marrying kind, had it not been for the fact that an heir-in-wedlock needed to be born (imo ofcourse)

 

[Imanmajed]

No idea in all cases....but it is a very intersting question.

 

[julliette]

My thoughts:

1. Kate have married William had he not been royal? No
2. Letizia married felipe? yes, though I'm not sure the marriage would have survived for so long
3. Mary married fred? Yes
4. Mette marit married Haakon? Totally
5. Daniel married Victoria? Totally
6. Maxima married WA? Yes
7. Mathilde married philippe? Yes
8. Stephanie married guillaume? Yes
9. Charlene married albert? No idea. This is a question I've never been able to answer for this couple. Still trying to figure out what's going on between these two
10. Marie married Joachim? Not sure.
11. Masako married naruhito? Totally
12. Salma married mohammed? Don't know enough about these two to answer
13. Marie Chantal married pavlos? Not sure. On one hand I think she loves him, on another I'm not sure she'd married someone with no status.
14. Iñaki married cristina? No
15. Chris married Madeleine? Yes
16. Sophia marrid carl phillip? (when she does next year?) No
17. Ari behn married Martha? Yes
18. Maria Teresa married henri? Yes
19. Claire married felix of Luxembourg? Yes
20. Tessy married Louis of Luxembourg? yes

 

[Osipi]

To keep things short and sweet, I think other than those royal couples that have had an arranged marriage, they would have married regardless of status and/or wealth.

 

[Skippyboo]

Marie Chantel's father is a billionaire. Pavlos is a prince without a kingdom. Who married up? Him or her ?


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Blog Real]

My thoughts:

1. Kate have married William had he not been royal? No
2. Letizia married felipe? Yes
3. Mary married fred? Yes
4. Mette marit married Haakon? Totally
5. Daniel married Victoria? Totally
6. Maxima married WA? Yes
7. Mathilde married philippe? Yes
8. Stephanie married guillaume? Yes
9. Charlene married albert? I have no idea, I think Charlene loves Albert, but it doesn't look like a couple very United.
10. Marie married Joachim? Yes
11. Masako married naruhito? Totally
12. Salma married mohammed? I have no idea
13. Marie Chantal married pavlos? I have no idea
14. Iñaki married cristina? No
15. Chris married Madeleine? Yes
16. Sophia marrid carl phillip? I think so...
17. Ari behn married Martha? Yes
18. Maria Teresa married henri? Yes
19. Claire married felix of Luxembourg? Yes
20. Tessy married Louis of Luxembourg? yes

And what do you think about Rania and Abdullah?

 

[Cris M]

I don't think it's right to say some of the royal ladies would not have married their husbands had they not been royals.

Are you calling them money diggers? Or title diggers? Do you think that's right? Who are we to judge? Would you like to be judged in such a disrespectful way?

 

[Roslyn]

My thoughts:


1. Kate have married William had he not been royal? No.
2. Letizia married felipe? Yes.
3. Mary married fred? Yes.
4. Mette marit married Haakon? Yes.
5. Daniel married Victoria? Definitely.
6. Maxima married WA? Yes.
7. Mathilde married philippe? Yes.
8. Stephanie married guillaume? Yes.
9. Charlene married albert? Not sure, but leaning towards no.
10. Marie married Joachim? No opinion.
11. Masako married naruhito? Yes, and wouldn't it have been so much easier for her that way.
12. Salma married mohammed? No opinion.
13. Marie Chantal married pavlos? No opinion.
14. Iñaki married cristina? No opinion.
15. Chris married Madeleine? Yes.
16. Sophia marrid carl phillip? (when she does next year?) Yes.
17. Ari behn married Martha? No opinion.
18. Maria Teresa married henri? No opinion.
19. Claire married felix of Luxembourg? No opinion.
20. Tessy married Louis of Luxembourg? No opinion.
21. Rania and Abdullah. Yes.