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  #381  
Old 09-15-2016, 09:23 PM
Serene Highness
 
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People tend to marry within thier own class and I think that some foreign royal families tend to interpret that as very much they SHOULD marry within their own class. So the Belgian RF is going to marry other royals or at least Nobility. THe Britsih have been a bit more flexible with for example Kate being middle class...But after the disasters of Diana and fergie who were upper and I suppose were felt to be suitable becauase of being upper class, but who turned out to be wrong in terms of fitting in and being happy on a personal level, I think that the BRF have now opted for "marry somoene you love and know very well".. but the Belgians are still more conservative.
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  #382  
Old 09-17-2016, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by loveroyals View Post
I personally think that Carl Gustaf and Silvia seem to be more in love now than before the scandal book I really love it how they interact with each other!
More likely they are trying to look like a devoted united couple because there has been a scandalous revelation..
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  #383  
Old 09-17-2016, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
[...] But after the disasters of Diana and fergie who were upper and I suppose were felt to be suitable becauase of being upper class [...]
Sarah Ferguson does not file under upper class, I think. She had a respectable background but "upper class", no.
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  #384  
Old 09-17-2016, 06:04 AM
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yes she was.... Just she wasn't well off, or well behaved or discreet
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  #385  
Old 09-17-2016, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Sarah Ferguson does not file under upper class, I think. She had a respectable background but "upper class", no.
Although a commoner, she was well connected.

She had some royal connections. Her grandmother Marion, Lady Elmhirst being first cousin of the Queen Elizabeth's aunt Alice, Duchess of Gloucester.
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  #386  
Old 09-17-2016, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
But is a member of the untitled nobility a match for the King of Belgium.

I mean, if you're going to go down the arranged marriage road, why settle for a minor aristocrat, why not a princess?
Well,considering how things go today, a girl from very old aristocratic family whose mother is Countess and grandmother a Princess distantly related to all royal families of Europe is not bad at all.
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  #387  
Old 09-17-2016, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Not only is she a member of the ancient Polish nobility(Sapieha, much older and more aristocratic than the Saxe-Coburgs)
Well, this is not true. The families can't be even compared based on this. Let's get facts straight:

Saxe-Coburgs belong to Wettin dynasty whose first known ancestor Count Dietrich von Liesgau died before year of 976, in 10th century, while first known Sapieha ancestor appeared in 15th century, whole 5 centuries later when first known ancestor of d'Udekem family was also documented.

So, Sapeha and d'Udekem family both appeared in 15th century while Saxe-Coburg(Wettin) dynasty appeared 5 centuries earlier in 10th century.
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  #388  
Old 09-17-2016, 03:15 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Although a commoner, she was well connected.

She had some royal connections. Her grandmother Marion, Lady Elmhirst being first cousin of the Queen Elizabeth's aunt Alice, Duchess of Gloucester.
So was Diana a commoner. Fergie's family had no title but she's related to various titled people.. She's landed gentry...
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  #389  
Old 09-17-2016, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Well, this is not true. The families can't be even compared based on this. Let's get facts straight:

Saxe-Coburgs belong to Wettin dynasty whose first known ancestor Count Dietrich von Liesgau died before year of 976, in 10th century, while first known Sapieha ancestor appeared in 15th century, whole 5 centuries later when first known ancestor of d'Udekem family was also documented.

So, Sapeha and d'Udekem family both appeared in 15th century while Saxe-Coburg(Wettin) dynasty appeared 5 centuries earlier in 10th century.
In any case, both the Sapieha, the Komorowskis (circa the 14th century ?) and the d'Udekem are very old families and Mathilde shouldn't be simply dismissed as "minor nobility". She is not royal by birth for sure, but neither were Paola or Fabiola. The last royal-born queen consort in Belgium was Astrid of Sweden.

By modern European standards, where there are no more inter-dynastic marriages and marriages to commoners are the norm, Mathilde d'Udekem, Stéphanie de Lannoy, or Lady Diana Spencer are pretty much close to the "best" a crown prince can get in terms of his consort's family background.
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  #390  
Old 09-17-2016, 05:51 PM
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There are still royals who marry other royals, though.
But it seems as if some of the Belgian or Lux royals have married into the Non Reigning Catholic dynasties...
Mathild is like Diana or Paola, upper class with high connextions I assume and that's mostly what modern royals tend to go for.
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  #391  
Old 09-17-2016, 06:16 PM
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I must confess I am one of those people who regret that William didn't marry Madeleine of Sweden, which would have been the "right thing to do" in the old days of royalty, but I guess, in this day and age, people have to marry for love. I'm just not so sure William and Kate were a true love match, or a match that ultimately was pushed by the circumstances.

On your point that there are royals who still marry other dynasts, I think royal families nowadays don't really try very hard to see that happening. For example, much has been said on gossip magazines about how Queen Elizabeth really thought William and Madeleine would be a good match, but Madeleine once said in an interview that she had never been actually even introduced to either William or Harry.
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  #392  
Old 09-17-2016, 06:20 PM
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I highly doubt that the British RF would want to push dynastic marriages in the early 21st C. So I'm sure that that's just gossip mag nonsense.
And IMO a foreign princess would nto be popular in England, they would prefer to see their royals marry English women for at least affection and a good relationship.
Why would WIll marrying a woman he harldy knew from abroad be a good thing?
He and Kate seem a good match. they have known each other a long time.. they are rather similar in being dull and not very active minded.. they have had a long time to work out if they can make a marriage work.. and clearly she gets on OK with the rest of the RF.
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  #393  
Old 09-17-2016, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I highly doubt that the British RF would want to push dynastic marriages in the early 21st C. So I'm sure that that's just gossip mag nonsense.
And IMO a foreign princess would nto be popular in England, they would prefer to see their royals marry English women for at least affection and a good relationship.
Why would WIll marrying a woman he harldy knew from abroad be a good thing?
He and Kate seem a good match. they have known each other a long time.. they are rather similar in being dull and not very active minded.. they have had a long time to work out if they can make a marriage work.. and clearly she gets on OK with the rest of the RF.

Well, I am not British so I couldn't tell, but, before George VI, who was not supposed to become king anyway, British monarchs routinely married foreign princesses (well, maybe before George V actually, as Mary of Teck could be counted as British despite her German parents). In any case, many of those foreign queens were very popular in the UK like Queen Alexandra for example and I don't really see why that wouldn't be the case if Willam had married someone from overseas. In other countries, many of commoner wives of monarchs or crown princes are foreign born anyway, like Maxima, Mary or Maria Teresa, and, in Belgium, Mathilde is the first Belgian-born queen ever. BTW, Prince Philip himself was born in Greece and was foreign royalty.

I think the point is not so much a question of what the British public would prefer or not, but rather the fact that William didn't have much contact, I think, with foreign royalty or nobility. I know that, as a child, he and his parents used to visit the Spanish RF, but that is pretty much it. His social circle was mostly upper-class British nobility, landed gentry, or wealthy upper-middle-class, so it was logical that he would choose a wife from one of those social groups.
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  #394  
Old 09-18-2016, 08:14 AM
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that was a long time ago Mbruno. Some foreign princess brides became popular- and others didnt.
But really, there wasn't any choice back in 18th or 19th Century royal life. A royal was expected to marry another royal so they had to marry foreign princesses. However since WWI which made Germans very unpopular, George V agreed that rather than go for other royals, who would inevitably be foreign, his children could marry into the British aristocracy. he himself wasn't fond of foreigners or "abroad".. he was very British..
He is said to have said "Abroad is awful, I know, I've been there."
then there was WWII, and the habit of British royals marrying within the country and taking upper class British wives - for love - was firmly established. I dont beleive that now, a Swedish or Dutch or whatever princess woudl be popular.
People expected Will to marry an Enlgish girl of the upper or wealthy middle class, and ideally (after his parents' awful marriage) a woman he loved and had had time to get to know well.
I think it is possible that if a foreign princess like a Swedish one say had come to the UK to go to University, and met WIlliam there and they had developed a relationship (and some foreign royals have gone to British universities), she might be then liked because she did have the glamor of a title but was alos seen as having spent time in Britain and she and Will would have fallen in love.

Even So I can remember comments from way back, about Charles' possible bride, from the public saying "I'd rather he didnt marry a a foreigner, what's wrong with a nice English rose?"

Nowadays though I think that the continental royals still mix with each other, and intermarry, at times...but the British Royals remain on their island and dont really mingle with the foreign royals beyond a duty minimum. So yes it is not that likely that Wiliam would meet and marry one of the Continental princesses as they dont mix.

As for Philip, he was Greek by birth (though German by descent) but had been educated in England, joined the British navy and was to all intents and purposes a Brit.. even so there was the embarrassment of his sisters all marrying Germans, which had to be sort of hidden under the carpet.
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  #395  
Old 10-23-2016, 10:15 PM
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Happy Guillaume, Happy Stéphanie!! Love is Fine!!!
Prince Guillaume Of Luxembourg and Countess Stephanie de Lannoy... News Photo | Getty Images
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