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  #241  
Old 08-25-2016, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I don't really get the concept with "true love". Is there such a thing as false love? Or no love at all? And if so - why should that be a problem if those who are married are both happy with the situation?

Back in Regency days, there was a thing that was once called creampot love.

Love in return for money or title or position.

I suppose there isn't a problem, if both people are happy. It might be considered a fair exchange.
But then be honest, and call it what it is.
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  #242  
Old 08-25-2016, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I've always read/understood that it wasn't so much a love match as it was a practical marriage for both parties.

IIRC they lived separate lives after a certain point.



LaRae
Rainier was so visibly shattered at Grace's funeral that I had to avert my eyes from the camera at times. He was broken for years afterward and was never truly the same man again.

Even if it began as a marriage of mutual convenience, I am more than convinced that he truly loved his gorgeous Princess.
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  #243  
Old 08-25-2016, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Rainier was so visibly shattered at Grace's funeral that I had to avert my eyes from the camera at times. He was broken for years afterward and was never truly the same man again.

Even if it began as a marriage of mutual convenience, I am more than convinced that he truly loved his gorgeous Princess.
I'm certain they had feelings for each other at some point....I think she became very unhappy (reported that she lived mostly in France IIRC after a certain point in their marriage) for various reasons.

Perhaps he came to realize mistakes and had deep regrets and of course it's too late to make amends after someone passes.


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  #244  
Old 08-25-2016, 06:07 PM
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Then again, there are many examples where physical looks really never entered the picture at all as a reason for falling "in" love. For example, Eleanor and Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

FDR And Eleanor Were A Modern-Day Romeo And Juliet

"Politically speaking, at least. FDR was a Hyde Park Democrat, while Eleanor hailed from the Republicans of Oyster Bay, Long Island. FDR’s mother, Sara Delano, thought her only son was too young to marry (he was 22 and Eleanor was 19 when they got engaged in November, 1903). She also never found Eleanor to be particularly impressive or attractive: Eleanor’s own mother called her “Granny.” Sara asked the couple to keep their engagement secret for a year and even took her son on a foreign vacation hoping that would change his mind. It didn’t."

After Reading This, You'll Never Look At The Roosevelts The Same Way Again
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  #245  
Old 08-25-2016, 06:20 PM
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As I posted before, it's just all so very tricky for outsiders to judge whether or not another couple has "true love".

By every account, JFK married Jacqueline Bouvier in 1953 because she was intelligent, Catholic, beautiful and "classy". His ambitious father Ambassador Kennedy is said to have engineered the marriage so that his son would have a presentable spouse when he achieved the White House.

Jacqueline was raised to marry into what her social climbing mother called "big money".

In other words even though the couple was physically attracted to and appreciated one another, neither of them was said to have married primarily for love.

JFK's affairs during the marriage are the stuff of legend, several of his biographers believe he suffered from a sexual addiction.

But after reading first hand accounts of the marriage from people who knew them well I am more than convinced that they loved one another deeply in their own way. For Jackie in particular this brilliant, handsome, profoundly flawed man was the love of her life. His assassination reportedly drove her to contemplate suicide.

She told one of her maids that as he lay dying in her arms in the Dallas motorcade she kept telling him that she loved him, because she had read that dying people can still hear and she wanted that to be the last thing he heard in this life.

You can just never know what really goes on in someone's marriage.
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  #246  
Old 08-25-2016, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I'm certain they had feelings for each other at some point....I think she became very unhappy (reported that she lived mostly in France IIRC after a certain point in their marriage) for various reasons.

Perhaps he came to realize mistakes and had deep regrets and of course it's too late to make amends after someone passes.


LaRae
I don't know; I think they were both unhappy. A womanizer and an alcoholic? Doesn't sound like a recipe for a good marriage to me.
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  #247  
Old 08-25-2016, 06:47 PM
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I think they were In love but had their problems. I don't think it was an easy marriage; Grace as an American didn't really understand royal life. But she did learn and adapt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Back in Regency days, there was a thing that was once called creampot love.

Love in return for money or title or position.

I suppose there isn't a problem, if both people are happy. It might be considered a fair exchange.
But then be honest, and call it what it is.
Regency days? Are you saying that people don't marry for convenience now?

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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I don't know; I think they were both unhappy. A womanizer and an alcoholic? Doesn't sound like a recipe for a good marriage to me.
Of course they were unhappy at times. Any marriage has its problems and bad times and I think that they didn't know each other that well and had more than average. But they did care for each other. Where are you getting the "womaniser and alcoholic"? I think they had separate lives at times and different interests, but underneath there was a core of affection.
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  #248  
Old 08-25-2016, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Regency days? Are you saying that people don't marry for convenience now?

No, I'm not saying that.

Someone asked for another term (other than true love) and I mentioned what a marriage of convenience was once called.

Of course people still marry for the same reasons, but I haven't heard anyone use the term creampot love lately!
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  #249  
Old 08-25-2016, 07:01 PM
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well the term may be a bit out of date, but the concept still exists. I'd say that many marriages such as marriages to millionaires and royals don't even reach any definition of love...
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  #250  
Old 08-25-2016, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
As I posted before, it's just all so very tricky for outsiders to judge whether or not another couple has "true love".

By every account, JFK married Jacqueline Bouvier in 1953 because she was intelligent, Catholic, beautiful and "classy". His ambitious father Ambassador Kennedy is said to have engineered the marriage so that his son would have a presentable spouse when he achieved the White House.

Jacqueline was raised to marry into what her social climbing mother called "big money".

In other words even though the couple was physically attracted to and appreciated one another, neither of them was said to have married primarily for love.

JFK's affairs during the marriage are the stuff of legend, several of his biographers believe he suffered from a sexual addiction.

But after reading first hand accounts of the marriage from people who knew them well I am more than convinced that they loved one another deeply in their own way. For Jackie in particular this brilliant, handsome, profoundly flawed man was the love of her life. His assassination reportedly drove her to contemplate suicide.

She told one of her maids that as he lay dying in her arms in the Dallas motorcade she kept telling him that she loved him, because she had read that dying people can still hear and she wanted that to be the last thing he heard in this life.

You can just never know what really goes on in someone's marriage.

I don't think there's any doubt she loved him (at what point that occurred only she knows) ...I think he cared for her and had a lot of respect and admiration of her (he always seemed very proud of her in public) ...not sure that he 'loved' her (at least not when they married, she was a very suitable candidate for an up and coming politician) ....I think he was a very complicated and conflicted man due to his family and situation.



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  #251  
Old 08-25-2016, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
No, I'm not saying that.

Someone asked for another term (other than true love) and I mentioned what a marriage of convenience was once called.

Of course people still marry for the same reasons, but I haven't heard anyone use the term creampot love lately!
Today we have terms like "trophy wife" and "Daddy Warbucks" and "Sugar Daddy" and specifically getting more and more popular is "Baby Mama" and "Baby Daddy". Society is accepting more these days of single parents having children without marriage. Where it used to be quite acceptable to have arranged marriages and dynastic marriages and even pharaonic marriages, those have quite gone by the wayside for the most part and some even deemed illegal.

People come together for many, many reasons and there's really no set definition to define and measure the level of love, respect, mutual admiration or stability of a marriage one isn't involved in. Actually, I'd go as far as to state that with most marriages now, it would be more fitting to replace "till death do us part" to "as long as we both shall choose". I've actually seen this as part of wedding vows.

Each couple is unique and what works for one would be a disaster for another.
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  #252  
Old 08-25-2016, 07:29 PM
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True in a way but all the same, I think that there are marriages that are clearly for some definition of love, some unselfish feeling or emotional attachment, and others that don't have any real emotional component, which are an arrangement of (usualy) an attractive woman marrying a man for his wealth and he wants to show her off as young and beautiful...
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  #253  
Old 08-25-2016, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Today we have terms like "trophy wife" and "Daddy Warbucks" and "Sugar Daddy" and specifically getting more and more popular is "Baby Mama" and "Baby Daddy". Society is accepting more these days of single parents having children without marriage. Where it used to be quite acceptable to have arranged marriages and dynastic marriages and even pharaonic marriages, those have quite gone by the wayside for the most part and some even deemed illegal.

People come together for many, many reasons and there's really no set definition to define and measure the level of love, respect, mutual admiration or stability of a marriage one isn't involved in. Actually, I'd go as far as to state that with most marriages now, it would be more fitting to replace "till death do us part" to "as long as we both shall choose". I've actually seen this as part of wedding vows.

Each couple is unique and what works for one would be a disaster for another.
Truer words, rarely spoken Osipi!

I have no doubt that there are some couples who have what they feel is a love story for the ages.

I am thinking of some very famous folks in the worlds of politics, entertainment and sports who would cause me to run screaming for the hills or reaching for Valium if I was part of a relationship like theirs but that's another thread.
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  #254  
Old 08-25-2016, 08:22 PM
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Actually, I'd go as far as to state that with most marriages now, it would be more fitting to replace "till death do us part" to "as long as we both shall choose". I've actually seen this as part of wedding vows.
Why stop there?

Why not use "Unless something better comes along" or "Unless you get sick or old or unattractive and turn out to be a burden" or "Unless we can't afford the lifestyle I want."

That's probably what such people mean but don't want to state outright.
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  #255  
Old 08-25-2016, 09:05 PM
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You have it right, Osipi, and you mentioned it too, moonmaiden23. Each couple is unique and only the partners in the marriage will determine if their union is a happy and fulfilling one, even if it seems lopsided from the outside. I think that Celine Dion and René Angelil were very happily married, despite their age difference. And so I also think that P Albert and P Charlene are happily married. They just seem close and content together, imo.


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  #256  
Old 08-25-2016, 09:11 PM
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True Love Marriages

[QUOTE=Denville;1919347]I was actually responding to posters who were saying that a rich/powerful man often marries "above his league" in that he will get a young and beautiful wife. Charles did, but he then formed a much happier partnership with Camilla. And another poster who said that Camilla and Charles were both "attractive", and IMO neither of them is more than average in looks. I did point out that whle many DID think Diana very beautiful not all agree /]


https://goo.gl/images/Gk2Bf3

I think on this picture and others Camilla is sexy. And back in the 70's Prince Charles was the action man with a slamming body.
So I think they were above average and more importantly they were attractive to each other. They still feel that way. It is very evident in their interactions. This is a true love match.
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  #257  
Old 08-26-2016, 02:29 AM
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IM not disputing that they love each other, I think they do and that they also had a powerful sexual bond, probably still do. I just wouldn't call either of them particularly good lookng. Charles certainly dated many girls who were prettiter than Camilla, but she's the one he always returned to.
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  #258  
Old 08-26-2016, 03:55 AM
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I wonder how Camillia really feels about Charles is it real love or our affair caused all this trouble so best we are married so it looks like true love. We are told of her love for her 1st husband over Charles back in the early years. I think she might think sometimes " I'd rather be home with my family than all this royal duty how the hell did I finish up in this position "


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  #259  
Old 08-26-2016, 05:12 AM
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Anything that anyone puts on a couple from the outside looking in comes under pure speculation and is really kind of futile to even discuss. We don't know, will never know and its really none of our business to know. Perhaps someday down the lines an autobiography will come out about different people and then we get a glimpse into a relationship as it was.

One thing I will say though about couples that have been together happily for decades is that most likely their relationship probably has a lot of different levels to it and have gone through changes over the years.
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  #260  
Old 08-26-2016, 05:49 AM
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I think we do have enogh info on some couples to make an educated guess. Charles and Camilla are not young, books have been written, he has talked to people, the meida. so we have a history of them. So I think taht they are definitley in love, I think she is not that keen on the royal life but she is willng to do it, for Charles' sake. and she's reasonably popular now. I think that she's done the job quite well, considering and she and Charles are good friends and have always known how to cope with whatever came up in thier lives. Of course love changes as life goes on, but if there is a bond, and the couple are wiling to keep on trying, it will keep on going.
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