Hello!
Do you guys prefer general titles of the heir to the throne (like the Crown Prince of Norway, Denmark, etc.), or more specific ones (like the Prince of Wales, Duke of Brabant)? And why?
Most kingdoms their heirs/heiresses is crown prince/princess and some are hold other subtitles like Prince of Wales in the UK.That is the way they chose to style and title their heirs/heiresses.
I loved Tsarevich and Dauphin. I also like that Prince of Wales let's me know its the first son and Duke of York tells me its the second; but in regards to the other titles like Austirias(sp) it confuses me.
I loved Tsarevich and Dauphin. I also like that Prince of Wales let's me know its the first son and Duke of York tells me its the second; but in regards to the other titles like Austirias(sp) it confuses me.
Nor does Spain have a 'crown princess Leonor of Spain' but a 'princess of Asturias' (who previously was known as 'infanta Leonor de España' not 'princesa Leonor de España'
A minor clarification: The title is indeed "Infanta de España", but in Spain, Infantas are generally known as Infanta Leonor or Infanta Leonor de Borbón rather than Infanta Leonor de España.
Previously, whenever an Infanta/Infante of Spain married "equally" (excepting Infantas who married foreign royalty and became part of their husbands' families), the husband or wife also became an Infanta/Infante of Spain, and a dukedom was unnecessary. King Juan Carlos's uncle and sisters were granted dukedoms only because they married "unequally" and their spouses were not allowed to use the title of Infanta/Infante. The dukedom gave their spouses a courtesy title, making them the duke consort or duchess consort.
While i'm all for individuality, and like titles like Prince of Wales and Duke of Brabant, and the like, if one is not familiar with a particular Royal Family's customs, it might be hard to determine who is next in line for the throne.
While Crown Prince(ss) may be more generic, most countries use King/Queen, which while different in each language, translate to King/Queen in English, which makes it easier to see who is Head of State.
Most kingdoms their heirs/heiresses is crown prince/princess [...]
While Crown Prince(ss) may be more generic, most countries use King/Queen, which while different in each language, translate to King/Queen in English, which makes it easier to see who is Head of State.
Infanta Pilar married a viscount though. Even though that was an "unequal" marriage for an infanta, her husband nevertheless already had a title of his own, so a dukedom would not have to be created for her so that her husband could have a courtesy title. That seems to go against your theory.
A minor clarification: The title is indeed "Infanta de España", but in Spain, Infantas are generally known as Infanta Leonor or Infanta Leonor de Borbón rather than Infanta Leonor de España.
True, note this royal decree giving Infanta Elena the right to use the title of Duchess of Lugo. She is called "Su Alteza Real Doña Elena de Borbón, Infanta de España".
In this other royal decree , where King Felipe VI revokes Infanta Cristina's right to use the title of Duchess of Palma de Mallorca, he refers to her sister as "Su Alteza Real la Infanta Doña Cristina". That is BTW also how Doña Elena is cited in the preamble of the first royal decree above.
So it appears that both the long style in paragraph one and the short style in paragraph two are used, but "Su Alteza Real la Infanta xxx de España" is never used.
You are right. Thanks for clarifying. They are indeed infantas of Spain but it isn't used in combination with their fist name. However, in mbruno's example the combination of infanta and surname isn't used either.
Sus Majestades los Reyes y Sus Majestades los Reyes Don Juan Carlos y Doña Sofía asistieron a la misa córpore insepulto oficiada por Su Alteza Real el Infante Don Carlos de Borbón-Dos Sicilias, que falleció el pasado día 5.
Would be strange to have infante/a X Rodríguez if Leonor marries a Rodríguez, a HRH don X Rodriguez, infante de España sounds slightly better.
Based on what I see, the most common style is Infante/a and their first name, the combination of Infante/a, first name, and surname occurs from time to time, and the combination of Infante/a, first name, and "de España" is less frequent than the other two but still in use.
An example of "Infante X surname" on the website of the Spanish monarchy:
Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España - Actividades y Agenda - Misa córpore insepulto por Su Alteza Real Don Carlos de Borbón-Dos Sicilias, Infante de España
That might be why Reina Letizia Ortiz is so uncommonly used compared to Reina Sofía de Grecia, Reina Victoria Eugenia de Battenberg, etc. Since it is foreseen that Leonor and her oldest child will be Queen/King of Spain, her children will almost certainly be SAR Don/Doña X de Borbón Rodríguez, Infante/a de España. Her son could then be SAR el Infante Don X de Borbón.
Duke of York is not always second son. It has traditionally been given as such, but not always. Harry wont become Duke of York when his dad is king, Andrew will still be. Louis wont be Duke of York when his dad is king, Andrew will still be alive.
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And who is Andrew.... The second son of the reigning monarch when he was born. I never implied that Andrew's title would be taken away once his mother died.
@mbruno thank you for the explanation of Spain. I think my confusion came from an article I read that referred to one of Felipe's sisters as a Princess of Austuria. But your explanation helps, so Christina is an Infanta?
Shouldn’t her children have their father’s name as last name ? If she marries another royal, I can see her children getting a compound name ,, but, if she marries a commoner, do you think the children will get the maternal name before the paternal one ?
Just to compare, Infanta Elena’s children are “ de Marichalar y Borbón”, not the inverse and, in the short style, they are called only “don/doña xxx de Marichalar”
I especially like the title of Dauphine. I like the fact that Dauphine Marie Therese of France, Duchess of Angouleme, had previously been born a French princess.
And who is Andrew.... The second son of the reigning monarch when he was born. I never implied that Andrew's title would be taken away once his mother died.
@mbruno thank you for the explanation of Spain. I think my confusion came from an article I read that referred to one of Felipe's sisters as a Princess of Austuria. But your explanation helps, so Christina is an Infanta?
Now this explanation makes sense, the earlier one was lacking. The title would have passed to his sons if he had them.Yes but he ceases to be the 2nd son of the monarch when his mother dies. He will be the brother of the monarch, the uncle of the monarch, the great uncle possibly of the monarch.
Duke of York doesn't denote a 2nd son. Yes, it has been customary, but not a rule. You know Prince of Wales is the eldest son/heir of the monarch, plain and simple. We know the Duke of Cornwall is the eldest son of the monarch plain and simple. These titles and who hold them is clear. Duke of York is not. Duke of York is inheritable, though only once has a Duke of York who was the son of a monarch, had a son to pass it to.
If Andrew remarried and had a son. Or Beatice had been Prince Bruce, the 2nd duke of York would never have been a 2nd son of the monarch.
Your point was you know automatically- Duke of York equals 2nd son of the monarch. That isn't true, it currently is, but not permanently.