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  #81  
Old 08-25-2005, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
Marie never wanted her son to marry Alix and only grudgingly accepted it when her husband was dying. She told her sister, the Princess of Wales, that she highly disapproved of Alix.

Why was Marie always usurping Alix's place from the beginning? The Dowager Empress surrenders preminence to the current Empress. Marie wouldn't do it! Why was she always meddling and wanted to keep Nicky and Alix under the same roof as her?? To spy is the answer!!

Marie hated the fact that she had to surrender the royal jewels to Alix. Alix didn't want or ask for them. The government issued an order and she had to surrender them. She blamed Alix.

Marie did not like the way Alix raised her children, The English way. Marie thought children should be out of sight, out of mind. I commend Alix for having a more modern attitude towards motherhood.

If anything made Alix crazy, it was having a haemophiliac son.

Her sister Elisabeth had a strange epiphany of her own and became a nun. Now that was unusual--to give up all that material comfort to be a nun?
Alicky was not a Royal Princess, but she was QV's granddaughter, her pref grandkid, indeed, she was so beautiful, albert Victor, Duke of Clarence would have liked to marry her, his first cousin, but she won't have any of it.
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  #82  
Old 08-25-2005, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betina
For me it is Queen Caroline Mathilde of Denmark (Married to her mad cousin Christian 7. of Denmark), Queen Sophie Magdalene of Sweden (Married Gustaf 3 of Sweden witch mother hated the young princess), Queen Anne of Britain (Lost all of her children i think she lost 18)
Queen Anne lost her 17 kids, who all died be4e her, so the House of Stuart ended with her.
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  #83  
Old 08-25-2005, 01:28 PM
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Unhappy Soraya.

For me-

1-Princess Diana-

2-Princess Soraya, it sems that she really loved the Shah, then she lost her new lover , just be4e their wed, Franco Indovina, he died in a plane crash, in 1979, she died alone , her only companion, a Lady in waiting ,inherited it all from her, but it looks she had always exploited Soraya, even her grave was opened by who knows who - these mean ppl wrote some Nazi slogans and bashing words on her grave , words against her , even calling Soraya a parasite !
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  #84  
Old 08-26-2005, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betina
For me it is Queen Caroline Mathilde of Denmark (Married to her mad cousin Christian 7. of Denmark), Queen Sophie Magdalene of Sweden (Married Gustaf 3 of Sweden witch mother hated the young princess), Queen Anne of Britain (Lost all of her children i think she lost 18)

Also Caroline Brunswick, wife of K. George IV, I read a book about her many years ago- The deserted wife- she was so despiced by her husband that his people did not even let enter Westminster Abbey during his Coronation ceremony ,in 1820.
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  #85  
Old 08-26-2005, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Mapple
Marengo, that's an interesting version... But there are several holes in it.

1) Clemenceau first assumed the position of Prime Minister in 1906, 17 years after Mayerling. He wasn't even a minister in 1889.

2) The French Government was too preoccupied with the Boulangist movement in January 1889 to venture in such a dangerous international gamble.

3) Mary Vetsera died several hours before Rudolf. Why did the French agents murder the hapless girl first?

4) Vetsera also wrote several letters regarding her impending death in the last day of her life. How did she manage to do it if it were the French?

5) Why didn't the Court claim that the Crown Prince and the girl had been killed 'by person or persons unknown'? Convicting some peasant of double murder could have done no harm to the monarchy, too... Instead the Court admitted publicly that the Crown Prince was a deranged man, and Franz Joseph had to apply to the Pope for a permission to let Rudolf have a Christian funeral.
In the book it is also stted that some historians see Zita's version as a way to clear the Habsburg family from any flaw. I assume that the Clemenceau error was prety obvious, to obvious for Zita to make it, so maybe she meant the later PM Clemenceau?

I think that 'person unknown´ could have lead to speculations etc and an official investigation while this way everything could be silenced. If Zita's version is true (not likely), and the emperor wanted to evade an internationl incident wih France, this would have been the most logical thig to do.

The other points which you state are indeed not in favour of Zita's version, but I do not think Zita was a person who would make things like these up.

With a bit of imagination the other points you state could have been set up as well, though a bit far-fetched. So a suicide is the most logical explanation (thnkig about the other posibilities is much more interesting though )
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  #86  
Old 08-26-2005, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emily62_1
Are u talking about Alicky, was she a commoner, she was daughter of P. Alice and Grndduke of Hesse- Darmstadt- maybe u were referring to another son ?
I was indeed referring to Natalia Wulfert, the wife of Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovitch.
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  #87  
Old 08-26-2005, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emily62_1
Alicky was not a Royal Princess, but she was QV's granddaughter, her pref grandkid, indeed, she was so beautiful, albert Victor, Duke of Clarence would have liked to marry her, his first cousin, but she won't have any of it.
Members of the house of Hesse-Darmstadt could use the prefix HRH. But even without it, any family in the first part of the Almanach de Gotha is considere 'royal', so yes, Alix was a royal princess, albeit not a princess of the UK.
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  #88  
Old 08-26-2005, 02:26 AM
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Such fascinating info, thank you all, it's been truly enlightening!! :)

Quick question though:

tiaraprin wrote: " Her sister Elisabeth had a strange epiphany of her own and became a nun. Now that was unusual--to give up all that material comfort to be a nun?"

Is this Elizabeth by any chance the mother of the current Duke of Edinburgh, prince Phillip? I know his mother became a nun at some point, <and> he is somehow closely related to the last Russian tzar as he, Phillip, was asked to donate some DNA I believe a few years back when they found some remains of the Russian RF..

Can someone tell me if I'm correct? THanks!
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  #89  
Old 08-26-2005, 03:07 AM
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No, but she is related to Philips mother. The all descend from Grand Duke Ludwig of Hesse-and-by-Rhine and Princess Alice of GB.

The eldest daughter, Victoria, married to a prince of Battenberg. During WW1 they changed their last name to Mountbatten and became Marques and Marchioness of Milford-Haven (granted by King George V). Their eldest daughter Alice married prince Andrew of Greece and Denmark, 4th son of King George I and Queen Olga. The couples only son is Prince Philip

The second daughter, Elisabeth, married Grand Duke Serge of Russia (she refused the hand of her cousin, the later emperor Wilhelm II of Germany). After her husband was blown into pieces by anarchists she became a nun and founded the order of SS Martha and Mary, dedicated to nurse the poor.

The fourth daughter was Alix, later Tsarina Alexandra Feodorovna.

--

Later in life, the mother of prince Philip was involved is the order, founded by her aunt, so she dressed like a nun etc as well. There is a picture of the wedding of Elizabeth and Philip where we see her walking over the red carpet in church and in a nuns habit (I believe followed by he brother-in-law Prince George of Greece & D and his wife princess Marie Bonaparte).
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  #90  
Old 08-26-2005, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emily62_1
Alicky was not a Royal Princess, but she was QV's granddaughter, her pref grandkid, indeed, she was so beautiful, albert Victor, Duke of Clarence would have liked to marry her, his first cousin, but she won't have any of it.
It would have ended in tragedy either way if she married Eddy or Nicholas. At least she loved Nicholas, it was a true love match. She suffered much to be with Nicholas with his hostile family, and her carrying the haemophelia gene to the Russian Royal Line. What would have happened if somehow she and Eddy had had a child?? That is one scary thought, considering how Eddy was and her genetic makeup.
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  #91  
Old 08-26-2005, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
In the book it is also stted that some historians see Zita's version as a way to clear the Habsburg family from any flaw. I assume that the Clemenceau error was prety obvious, to obvious for Zita to make it, so maybe she meant the later PM Clemenceau?

I think that 'person unknown´ could have lead to speculations etc and an official investigation while this way everything could be silenced. If Zita's version is true (not likely), and the emperor wanted to evade an internationl incident wih France, this would have been the most logical thig to do.

The other points which you state are indeed not in favour of Zita's version, but I do not think Zita was a person who would make things like these up.

With a bit of imagination the other points you state could have been set up as well, though a bit far-fetched. So a suicide is the most logical explanation (thnkig about the other posibilities is much more interesting though )
Mayerling is set to remain a mysterious event, I think. There are several arguments against the suicide version, too... Unfortunately for us amateur historians, there was no Sherlock Holmes in 1889 Vienna.
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  #92  
Old 08-26-2005, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
Mayerling is set to remain a mysterious event, I think. There are several arguments against the suicide version, too... Unfortunately for us amateur historians, there was no Sherlock Holmes in 1889 Vienna.
To be honest, I prefer Miss Marple and Hercule Poirot But they werent present either, I am sure the 3 of them would have cleared it up though.
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  #93  
Old 08-27-2005, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Members of the house of Hesse-Darmstadt could use the prefix HRH. But even without it, any family in the first part of the Almanach de Gotha is considere 'royal', so yes, Alix was a royal princess, albeit not a princess of the UK.
oh, well, thanx, I know she was daughter of a Royal Princess, did not know she was a Royal herself.
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  #94  
Old 08-27-2005, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
It would have ended in tragedy either way if she married Eddy or Nicholas. At least she loved Nicholas, it was a true love match. She suffered much to be with Nicholas with his hostile family, and her carrying the haemophelia gene to the Russian Royal Line. What would have happened if somehow she and Eddy had had a child?? That is one scary thought, considering how Eddy was and her genetic makeup.
in fact, as they were cousins, though a daughter of P. Louise of Wales, who was the oldest daughter of Edward VIII, did marry her cousin,a son of P. Arthur of Connaught, younger brother of King Edward the VII, what happened with their own kids, were they ill ?
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  #95  
Old 08-27-2005, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo
Maria Feodorovna did not detest her daughter in law at all. She, and the rest of the Romanovs tried to get along with Alexandra again and again but the woman was jut plain crazy. Even her own sister (Grand Duchess Elisabeth Feodorovna) came to that conclusion.
Alix was not crazy, in the end her son's illness drove her to some insane acts, as believing in Rasputin, but she was ok, a good mother and a good wife.
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  #96  
Old 08-28-2005, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by emily62_1
in fact, as they were cousins, though a daughter of P. Louise of Wales, who was the oldest daughter of Edward VIII, did marry her cousin,a son of P. Arthur of Connaught, younger brother of King Edward the VII, what happened with their own kids, were they ill ?
I believe Alistair of Connaught was their son, and he was...peculiar. He died in his twenties and was well..peculiar at the least. However I do not think this was the case because of inbreeding, research shows that it is not as harmfull as people assume.
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Old 08-28-2005, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by emily62_1
Alix was not crazy, in the end her son's illness drove her to some insane acts, as believing in Rasputin, but she was ok, a good mother and a good wife.
well, all the other members of the romanov family, who actually knew her, had another opinion. But let's agree to disagree on this matter as everybody prefers to see Alix as the poor victim.
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  #98  
Old 08-28-2005, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
I believe Alistair of Connaught was their son, and he was...peculiar. He died in his twenties and was well..peculiar at the least. However I do not think this was the case because of inbreeding, research shows that it is not as harmfull as people assume.
Inbreeding is not harmful?? Take a look at the Spanish Royal Family going back a few centuries!! The son of Philip II, Don Carlos, comes to mind. . . . .
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Old 08-29-2005, 03:26 AM
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that was a result of centuries of inbreeding. I was referring to one 1st cousin marriage.
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  #100  
Old 08-29-2005, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
Such fascinating info, thank you all, it's been truly enlightening!! :)

Quick question though:

tiaraprin wrote: " Her sister Elisabeth had a strange epiphany of her own and became a nun. Now that was unusual--to give up all that material comfort to be a nun?"

Is this Elizabeth by any chance the mother of the current Duke of Edinburgh, prince Phillip? I know his mother became a nun at some point, <and> he is somehow closely related to the last Russian tzar as he, Phillip, was asked to donate some DNA I believe a few years back when they found some remains of the Russian RF..

Can someone tell me if I'm correct? THanks!

P. Philip's mother was P. Alice of Battenberg, whose grandmum was P. Alice, daughter of QV, alice of Battenberg's mother was instead P. Victoria, grandmother of P. Philip. In fact, when they found out the corpses of the last Tzar's Family, they wanted to compare their DNA with P. Philip's, I think they just did so.
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