Royal Dining Etiquette

[ashelen]

I just was looking at this photo and I notice that the cuttlery is upside down at least for me:
4.jpg (image)
I always thought that in a formal dinner the forks would do the other way that there are in the photo, is anybody out there know about royal table settings and manners?
anyone has photos of formal table settings, specially royal tables? is any difference between countries for setting a table royal or not??
how we can set a nice table, very formal like the royals do and any other information related with this?
I know that between courses there are a person who pass a bowl with rose petals water to wash your hands, but i do not know if this is still in use or not, may be soembody out there can tell us more .
for the moderators , please if i put this in the wrong forum move it where should to go, thank you

 

[DuedePhiladelphia]

I just was looking at this photo and I notice that the cuttlery is upside down at least for me:
4.jpg (image)
I always thought that in a formal dinner the forks would do the other way that there are in the photo, is anybody out there know about royal table settings and manners?
anyone has photos of formal table settings, specially royal tables? is any difference between countries for setting a table royal or not??
how we can set a nice table, very formal like the royals do and any other information related with this?
I know that between courses there are a person who pass a bowl with rose petals water to wash your hands, but i do not know if this is still in use or not, may be soembody out there can tell us more .
for the moderators , please if i put this in the wrong forum move it where should to go, thank you

Funny that u created this thread. I was looking at the Palace of Monaco thread and I saw a table setting wear the forks placed like the imge you have posted, maybe its an european custom

 

[ashelen]

I am not sure if it is an european costume I lived in Europe for 10 years and i never saw that before, maybe somebody from the forum can help. i wonder if it is a royal way to set the tables?

 

[RoyalProtocol]

This is bizzare, in the UK it would be considered wrong to do it as above, the prongs should always face up.

I've seen the table laid at Buckingham Palace and the prongs face up as in everyday life.

It is perhaps a European thing????

 

[ashelen]

Thank you for your comment about in the UK, when I was living there i was so interested in ettiquett and manners that I used to go to the library and get some books aobut it but like you said I always saw it with the prongs face up an I never saw it like the photo I posed here I wonder if this is just a royal thing?

 

[Austria]

When one puts the knives, forks, spoons, etc., upside down, that's the French formal style. Regards.

 

[Sarrie]

The cutlery, is placed like that, mainly that the fork is facing down is due to the cutlery either being french or being designed to face like that. In various french etiquette books it's written down that a fork facing upwards gives an aggressive look to the table. Thus some companies prefer designed the fork at the back in order for it to be placed facing down.

 

[ashelen]

thank you so much!!!!!! for the imput! so it is a french tradition, I presume, Henrik being French he may be brought the style to Denmark? So in France if you put a formal table you do that! I lived in France and I never saw that! very interesting!!!!All the other Royal houses do the same?

 

[DuedePhiladelphia]

thank you so much!!!!!! for the imput! so it is a french tradition, I presume, Henrik being French he may be brought the style to Denmark? So in France if you put a formal table you do that! I lived in France and I never saw that! very interesting!!!!All the other Royal houses do the same?

hence, my Monaco observation

 

[Warren]

From this website

Silverware Placement

• In French table setting, eating utnsils, or les couverts, are placed in the order in which you will be using them. The utensils furthest from the plate are the ones you will use first.
• The forks are placed to the left of the plate (doesn't that irritate all of you right-handed people?) either with the tines pointing down, called à la française - French style, or with the tines pointing up, à l'anglaise - English style.
• The knife, or possibly knives, are placed to the right of the plate with the cutting surfaces pointing towards the plate.
• The spoon, once again placed either face down or up, depending if you want to do it French or English style, is placed to the right of the knife.

 

[lilytornado]

The forks are placed to the left of the plate (doesn't that irritate all of you right-handed people?)

No, it doesn't, because we eat with the fork in our left hand and the knife in our right hand.
One just gets used to it

 

[ashelen]

No, it doesn't, because we eat with the fork in our left hand and the knife in our right hand.
One just gets used to it

what you men the formal way to eat is with the fork in the left hand?

 

[ashelen]

From this website

Silverware Placement

• In French table setting, eating utnsils, or les couverts, are placed in the order in which you will be using them. The utensils furthest from the plate are the ones you will use first.
• The forks are placed to the left of the plate (doesn't that irritate all of you right-handed people?) either with the tines pointing down, called à la française - French style, or with the tines pointing up, à l'anglaise - English style.
• The knife, or possibly knives, are placed to the right of the plate with the cutting surfaces pointing towards the plate.
• The spoon, once again placed either face down or up, depending if you want to do it French or English style, is placed to the right of the knife.

Thank you so much I just read the websie, very well explain! I wonder if the other roayls houses from the other countries follow too the french style?

 

[ashelen]

YouTube - Formal Table Setting - Cat Cora for Cooking.com
i found this in you tube , but it is american table settings, i di not find any european, sorry.

 

[Austria]

what you men the formal way to eat is with the fork in the left hand?

No matter which hand is dominant and comfortable for you to write with, when eating, one uses the left hand for the forks and the right hand for the knives. Right handed people, when they need to use their knife, place their fork in their left hand and pick up their knife in their right hand to cut. Some people call that crossing over. They cross over their fork from their right hand into their left hand. Traditionally, one cuts one piece of meat at a time; puts the knife down at the top of one's plate each time the cut is finished (the cutting edge facing the user); place the fork back into one's right hand to eat the piece of meat. They do this for every cut. Hope that wasn't too confusing.

 

[ashelen]

No matter which hand is dominant and comfortable for you to write with, when eating, one uses the left hand for the forks and the right hand for the knives. Right handed people, when they need to use their knife, place their fork in their left hand and pick up their knife in their right hand to cut. Some people call that crossing over. They cross over their fork from their right hand into their left hand. Traditionally, one cuts one piece of meat at a time; puts the knife down at the top of one's plate each time the cut is finished (the cutting edge facing the user); place the fork back into one's right hand to eat the piece of meat. They do this for every cut. Hope that wasn't too confusing.

Thank you Austria, this is what I normally do but Lilitornado confuse me when she said we keep the falk in the left hand! I suppose everycountry has different ways of table manners and etiquette, just since I saw that Photo of Prince Hnerik and Princess Mary with the setting upside down to me I was very surprise and I start to think, what it is the royal way, I have some formal dinners at my home during the year, and I like to try the ultimate of fromal table settings , normally the guests are very impressed! so now I wanted to know the royal one to do it at home for my next guests!

 

[lilytornado]

No matter which hand is dominant and comfortable for you to write with, when eating, one uses the left hand for the forks and the right hand for the knives. Right handed people, when they need to use their knife, place their fork in their left hand and pick up their knife in their right hand to cut. Some people call that crossing over. They cross over their fork from their right hand into their left hand. Traditionally, one cuts one piece of meat at a time; puts the knife down at the top of one's plate each time the cut is finished (the cutting edge facing the user); place the fork back into one's right hand to eat the piece of meat. They do this for every cut. Hope that wasn't too confusing.

Yes, this is the American style, but in Europe there is no crossing over - you keep the fork in the left hand all the time and the knife in the right hand all the time.
Actually this is a good way to distinguish Americans and Europeans if you watch them eating (only if they know some manners though LOL)

Edit: I found this about
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_etiquette

 

[iowabelle]

As an American I have to admit the way we handle our knives and forks is rather awkward. But I think I'm too old to change, not that I'd need to but if I wanted to.

 

[ashelen]

lilytornado, thank you so much for the link and your explanation , certenly we learn things everyday! I know that in denmark today they sell small roses to decorate all over the table , very nice, a friend brought me a nice big box to decorate the table and of course the famous danish candles! i love a table with candles! so romantic! I think even if we are not royals it is nice every so often to set a nice formal dinner and we can learn o copy a little bit from the photos of the royals event we see pity they do not take more photos where we can see, I can not find it now but I remeber in on of the dutch events they have some decorations on the table with a gold crown center pieces, may be it was not real gold but it look very nice with beautiful arrangments of flowers!

 

[RubyPrincess168]

As an American I have to admit the way we handle our knives and forks is rather awkward. But I think I'm too old to change, not that I'd need to but if I wanted to.

I tend to cut everything at once to avoid the awkward crossover thing.

 

[queenofthelight]

I have always loved ethics, especially, concerning royal manners.
Thank you, Ashelen, for an amazing video!

 

[Austria]

Yes, this is the American style, but in Europe there is no crossing over - you keep the fork in the left hand all the time and the knife in the right hand all the time.
Actually this is a good way to distinguish Americans and Europeans if you watch them eating (only if they know some manners though LOL)

Edit: I found this about
Eating utensil etiquette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My father uses the European etiquette with the fork in his left hand, facing down, and its very convenient. I think it looks nice too. Its almost as if its simpler and we can focus on the conversations rather than the more busy crossing over actions. There's probably fewer knives and forks dropped too.

 

[susan alicia]

the arrangement of drinking glasses is in Europe different than in the video:
waterglas nearby, to its left white wine glass, behind it champagne/sparkling wine glass.
The red wine glass behind the white wine glass but a bit "out of the square" to the left.

 

[Jacknch]

I just was looking at this photo and I notice that the cuttlery is upside down at least for me:
4.jpg (image)
I always thought that in a formal dinner the forks would do the other way that there are in the photo, is anybody out there know about royal table settings and manners?
anyone has photos of formal table settings, specially royal tables? is any difference between countries for setting a table royal or not??
how we can set a nice table, very formal like the royals do and any other information related with this?
I know that between courses there are a person who pass a bowl with rose petals water to wash your hands, but i do not know if this is still in use or not, may be soembody out there can tell us more .
for the moderators , please if i put this in the wrong forum move it where should to go, thank you

Everyone has their own ideas about how to set a table formally or correctly or what the proper way to do things is and I had no idea about the French formal way of placing forks! I suppose it makes sense to place the fork with the prongs facing downwards because when you start eating the food, you will hold the fork in that way! At a dinner party, the main thing is to make your dinner guests as comfortable as possible and to keep your table as simple and elegant as possible - I went to a wedding reception once which had so many extra's on the table that to reach the butter dish your hand had to do a careful assault course through candles, vases, name cards, wine glasses, finger bowls and all sorts of things! It all looked so cluttered and got worse when the food arrived because everyone was so squashed up!

My only advice for a successful and elegant table setting:

Make sure all the crockery/plates/cutlery etc match
Ensure there is plenty of room between guests to avoid "elbowing"
Simply fold napkins into a rectangle
A bowl of flowers for a daytime event is elegant. In the evening use candles and on each place setting/folded napkin place a single flower

What do other people do?!

 

[ashelen]

Everyone has their own ideas about how to set a table formally or correctly or what the proper way to do things is and I had no idea about the French formal way of placing forks! I suppose it makes sense to place the fork with the prongs facing downwards because when you start eating the food, you will hold the fork in that way! At a dinner party, the main thing is to make your dinner guests as comfortable as possible and to keep your table as simple and elegant as possible - I went to a wedding reception once which had so many extra's on the table that to reach the butter dish your hand had to do a careful assault course through candles, vases, name cards, wine glasses, finger bowls and all sorts of things! It all looked so cluttered and got worse when the food arrived because everyone was so squashed up!

My only advice for a successful and elegant table setting:

Make sure all the crockery/plates/cutlery etc match
Ensure there is plenty of room between guests to avoid "elbowing"
Simply fold napkins into a rectangle
A bowl of flowers for a daytime event is elegant. In the evening use candles and on each place setting/folded napkin place a single flower

What do other people do?!

Thank you so much for your advice and it is true sometimes we are too close to eachother and your elbows touch the next person , this is very unconfortable!!! I think one thing would help is one one has guest to have somebody else serving, I hate everytime we have guests , mu husband is the cook and serve and he is so worry about the food and the serving and all that he hardly sit and eat or enjoy the meal or the guests , i am trying to convince him everytime we have a formal dinner to pay somebody to come and serve and take care of the kitchen even if he is doing the cooking! this stand up in and out of the table gets on my nervs!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[sesa]

How funny. Every night when the family sits down to dinner I always set a semi-formal table. With the plates, utensils, napkins and glasses, all facing the correct way/order. I use my everyday china and regular glass for drinking, but I always set the table, and now I'm teaching my daughter to do the same thing. (her new chore)
To me, a table is not complete unless it has all of this. I'm so retarded, that even when we use paper plates and plastic cups & utensils, I will still set the table this way!
And from reading this thread, I guess I'm teaching my daughter how to cut her meat the european way. It's too much for her fingers to do the cross over technique, so I just have her cut with her right hand and her fork in her left when she is a right handed person.
I'm glad to know that I'm teaching her something the right way rather than just the "easier" way.

 

[susan alicia]

I think the American way is just as right as the European

 

[ChatNoir]

I just came across this thread, and here is the explanation to why forks and spoons are sometimes placed "upside down":
All silverware bears a stamp, and in most countries, you will find the stamp on the backside. In France and Italy, you will find the stamp on the front of forks and spoons. When setting a table, you always turn the stamp away from the guest. Therefore, silverware stamped in front will (or should be) always be facing down.

 

[segolen]

I haven't posted here in a while, but just reading it occasionally, great forum btw. I am not sure if someone answered this already( I tried reading all the posts and couldn't see it) , but the placing on the forks upside down has nothing to do with the guests to feel comfortable and it's not only a french tradition either. It used to be a very common tradition between the European noble families, because they used to engrave their personal code of arms on the back of the forks and this way, when the guests came over, they were able to show the family code of arms in a way of a welcoming manner.

 

[ashelen]

I haven't posted here in a while, but just reading it occasionally, great forum btw. I am not sure if someone answered this already( I tried reading all the posts and couldn't see it) , but the placing on the forks upside down has nothing to do with the guests to feel comfortable and it's not only a french tradition either. It used to be a very common tradition between the European noble families, because they used to engrave their personal code of arms on the back of the forks and this way, when the guests came over, they were able to show the family code of arms in a way of a welcoming manner.

very interesting!Thank you so much! it is a great idea, I wonder how much work and expense to do that in the hole set of cutlery? I never saw one, any photos available to see ?