Most Popular Prince / Princess?

[TLLK]

Then why were the both of them so beloved then?

I do believe that each woman had her very good qualities and it didn't hurt that each were certainly very photogenic. However largely they were "beloved" because the media went into hyper-overdrive stories to sell papers, magazines etc.. Also this may seem ghoulish but each also died unexpectedly and violently which fueled the legend aspect. (Much like we saw with Sissi in the 19th century.)



In real life, I believe that both at the end that they were rather sad and lonely figures.



Honestly I believe that Europe's royal houses do not want to see a repeat of the "fame" that Grace and Diana created. In hindsight I doubt that Grace nor Diana would have wanted to see it repeated either. The personal cost is far too high.

 

[Kitty1224]

I do believe that each woman had her very good qualities and it didn't hurt that each were certainly very photogenic. However largely they were "beloved" because the media went into hyper-overdrive stories to sell papers, magazines etc.. Also this may seem ghoulish but each also died unexpectedly and violently which fueled the legend aspect. (Much like we saw with Sissi in the 19th century.)



In real life, I believe that both at the end that they were rather sad and lonely figures.



Honestly I believe that Europe's royal houses do not want to see a repeat of the "fame" that Grace and Diana created. In hindsight I doubt that Grace nor Diana would have wanted to see it repeated either. The personal cost is far too high.

Its true the media followed them like hawks but don't forget the public followed them because they liked them for different reasons. The media could go into hyper overdrive mode with say Catherine but both Diana and Grace are just fascinating figures. Never to be seen like that again.

 

[Denville]

I do believe that each woman had her very good qualities and it didn't hurt that each were certainly very photogenic. However largely they were "beloved" because the media went into hyper-overdrive stories to sell papers, magazines etc.. Also this may seem ghoulish but each also died unexpectedly and violently which fueled the legend aspect. (Much like we saw with Sissi in the 19th century.)



In real life, I believe that both at the end that they were rather sad and lonely figures.



Honestly I believe that Europe's royal houses do not want to see a repeat of the "fame" that Grace and Diana created. In hindsight I doubt that Grace nor Diana would have wanted to see it repeated either. The personal cost is far too high.

Dont know if Grace was so unhappy.. She had a difficult marriage at times but I think that all the same she and Rainier had developed a way to work out their marriage.. and while her children were difficult, she was still busy and OK when she died. But Diana had that tragic aura of being unloved, leaving the RF, being chased by the Press, and not being able to find a happy medium way of living.. at least not by the time of her deaht...

 

[TLLK]

Its true the media followed them like hawks but don't forget the public followed them because they liked them for different reasons. The media could go into hyper overdrive mode with say Catherine but both Diana and Grace are just fascinating figures. Never to be seen like that again.

Of which I believe that Catherine, Victoria, Mary, Maxima etc...are profoundly grateful that the media will not likely go into hyper overdrive mode with them as the cost was far too high. The women that I mentioned are often considered to be very popular in their respective nations based on various opinion polls. However I would imagine that they don't wish to be set up on unrealistic pedestals like Grace and Diana.

 

[Kitty1224]

Dont know if Grace was so unhappy.. She had a difficult marriage at times but I think that all the same she and Rainier had developed a way to work out their marriage.. and while her children were difficult, she was still busy and OK when she died. But Diana had that tragic aura of being unloved, leaving the RF, being chased by the Press, and not being able to find a happy medium way of living.. at least not by the time of her deaht...

I agree I think it's a good thing that there isn't a princess who had that much media and public attention that both Diana and Grace had to endure. But they will be missed. They really created "magic" within their roles as princess and in my opinion not seen since their deaths.

 

[QueenMathilde]

Well "star" factor is also highly subjective. What factor appealed to some about those women doesn't necessarily mean the same to others. Let's not forget too at that time the media was extremely keen on promoting both Grace and Diana to their global audiences to sell newspapers and magazines.



Now that we know more about Grace and Diana's personalities, their personal struggles etc..would people view them through the same rosy lenses? I honestly don't know.

There's some story about Diana and Grace Kelly meeting for the first time. Someone had Diana in tears. Grace supposedly said something to the effect of "Don't worry dear it can only get worse!"

 

[Kitty1224]

There's some story about Diana and Grace Kelly meeting for the first time. Someone had Diana in tears. Grace supposedly said something to the effect of "Don't worry dear it can only get worse!"

Queen Mathilde, you follow Grace don't you? What did you think about Grace as a princess and why she is loved?

 

[TLLK]

I agree I think it's a good thing that there isn't a princess who had that much media and public attention that both Diana and Grace had to endure. But they will be missed. They really created "magic" within their roles as princess and in my opinion not seen since their deaths.

Personally I wouldn't refer to it as "magic" but I acknowledge that both women were certainly popular during their lifetimes. However since coming to this site, I've learned about other queens and princesses who were certainly considered to be beloved and extremely popular during their lifetimes as well and like Grace and Diana tended to die unexpectedly and relatively early such as Belgium's Queen Astrid.


https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/astrid-of-sweden/astrid-of-sweden-queen-of-hearts/

 

[Kitty1224]

Personally I wouldn't refer to it as "magic" but I acknowledge that both women were certainly popular during their lifetimes. However since coming to this site, I've learned about other queens and princesses who were certainly considered to be beloved and extremely popular during their lifetimes as well and like Grace and Diana tended to die unexpectedly and relatively early such as Belgium's Queen Astrid.


https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/astrid-of-sweden/astrid-of-sweden-queen-of-hearts/

Thanks for the link! Its a shame if you ask people on the street to name 5 princesses they are likely to say Diana, Grace and Catherine.

 

[Curryong]

Queen Astrid of the Belgians was indeed beloved by the Belgian people from the moment she arrived on Belgian soil. It was said that she was more popular than her husband Leopold III. Young and beautiful like Diana she was also killed in a car accident, in her case caused by her husband, and mourned by the population for years afterwards.

 

[Kitty1224]

Queen Astrid of the Belgians was indeed beloved by the Belgian people from the moment she arrived on Belgian soil. It was said that she was more popular than her husband Leopold III. Young and beautiful like Diana she was also killed in a car accident, in her case caused by her husband, and mourned by the population for years afterwards.

I'm seeing a pattern has eerie as it sounds beloved Queens/Princesses dying in car crashes...

 

[TLLK]

Thanks for the link! Its a shame if you ask people on the street to name 5 princesses they are likely to say Diana, Grace and Catherine.

You're welcome. In English speaking nations yes I agree that you might hear those names. However in Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Spain, Jordan, Japan, etc.. you would likely hear other answers: "Madeline, Victoria, Marie, Mary, Mabel, Elena, Iman, Aiko..."

 

[TLLK]

Queen Astrid of the Belgians was indeed beloved by the Belgian people from the moment she arrived on Belgian soil. It was said that she was more popular than her husband Leopold III. Young and beautiful like Diana she was also killed in a car accident, in her case caused by her husband, and mourned by the population for years afterwards.

Tragically died at age thirty and honestly she and Leopold had one of the celebrated love matches of the early twentieth century. A time when it was still fairly common to see some sort of "arrangement" still made for royal=royal matches.



Queen Astrid's descendants are on the thrones of Belgium and Luxembourg with additional ties to Lichtenstein and the Hapbsburgs. Her other relatives can be found in her native Sweden and in neighboring Norway as her sister married then Crown Prince Olav. Sadly Crown Princess Martha died before her husband ascended to the throne.

 

[Kitty1224]

You're welcome. In English speaking nations yes I agree that you might hear those names. However in Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Spain, Jordan, Japan, etc.. you would likely hear other answers: "Madeline, Victoria, Marie, Mary, Mabel, Elena, Iman, Aiko..."

Well I assume that their own country would name them hahaha but I also will add Diana's reach was immense. Loved by many other nations.

 

[Countessmeout]

That may be true about Diana and Grace, but Catherine

One if people were asked they would likely say Kate and not Catherine

And Kate is only as well known as she is for she is married into the BRF. The British royal family is the most famous plain and simple. Even people who don't follow royals know who they are. Kate is known because she is married to the future king of the one monarchy most people know, especially in English speaking countries (some people will say 'are there other monarchies').

If Kate was Princess Catherine of Spain no one would know who she was in the English speaking world. While she has done good work, she is not memorable. She isn't Time Magazine cover worthy like Diana and Grace were. She is not going to set the world on fire, or make a new legacy for others to follow.


Grace was known more because she was 'former Hollywood starlet' then anything she really did as a royal.

 

[Osipi]

If Kate was Princess Catherine of Spain no one would know who she was in the English speaking world. While she has done good work, she is not memorable. She isn't Time Magazine cover worthy like Diana and Grace were. She is not going to set the world on fire, or make a new legacy for others to follow.

Kate actually does a fantastic job doing what she's supposed to do. Support her husband and the "Firm" as part of "Team Windsor". She's not out to create a blitz of personal fame and adoration of the masses. Camilla actually does much better at fulfilling the role as consort to the Prince of Wales than Diana ever did or could. The Queen has recognized this by creating both Kate and Camilla as Dame Grand Cross of The Royal Victorian Order and Camilla sits on the Queen's privy council. To me, this means far more than the fawning adoration of the masses and the celebrity icon status Diana achieved.

Diana wrote the book on how not to be a senior working royal for the British Royal Family and if someone should say "there will never be another Diana", perhaps the best response to that is "Thank God!" Diana failed miserably in the job she was supposed to do. Support her husband and the family "Firm". The job of "Princess of the UK" as a working senior royal came with expectations that Diana never really met.

Diana may have been very popular in a celebrity way with the general public but she was not overly admired by the family she was supposed to represent and that's what really mattered.

 

[Countessmeout]

Kate actually does a fantastic job doing what she's supposed to do. Support her husband and the "Firm" as part of "Team Windsor". She's not out to create a blitz of personal fame and adoration of the masses. Camilla actually does much better at fulfilling the role as consort to the Prince of Wales than Diana ever did or could. The Queen has recognized this by creating both Kate and Camilla as Dame Grand Cross of The Royal Victorian Order and Camilla sits on the Queen's privy council. To me, this means far more than the fawning adoration of the masses and the celebrity icon status Diana achieved.

Diana wrote the book on how not to be a senior working royal for the British Royal Family and if someone should say "there will never be another Diana", perhaps the best response to that is "Thank God!" Diana failed miserably in the job she was supposed to do. Support her husband and the family "Firm". The job of "Princess of the UK" as a working senior royal came with expectations that Diana never really met.

Diana may have been very popular in a celebrity way with the general public but she was not overly admired by the family she was supposed to represent and that's what really mattered.

Note I didnt say anything wrong about Kate.


What I said was that she had done nothing Remarkable. Meaning that she would not be a household name if she was not married to the future king of Great Britain. If she was married to the future King of Belgium or such, no one woudl know who she was. For no matter what wonderful work she has done, very few people outside of Belgium and neighboring countries, would know she and her husband exist.

I even emphasized that Grace was known as a celebrity.

I try and not touch Diana as too many people idolize her as some kind of Mother Theresa on this site and I don't want to get into that.


My simple point: Kate is only 'one of the five princesses people will name' because for many people she is one of the only five princesses they know. Not because she has actually done anything to carve a global image for herself.


Sadly if it was actually about doing work and fufilling the role, and not about 'who is the most glamorous, who wears clothes the best', Camilla and Anne would be the ones gracing magazine covers.

 

[TLLK]

Well I assume that their own country would name them hahaha but I also will add Diana's reach was immense. Loved by many other nations.

I agree that in the 20th century it was far reaching but as time goes on there will be fewer people who actually remember her. Many loved her but also others were rather critical especially before the end of her life. Also keep in mind it's been over twenty years since Diana passed. In 2022 it will be forty since Grace passed on. Generations of people in English speaking countries who don't know who either of them. It's possible that among younger people that they won't name either Grace or Diana if you asked them the names of five princesses. They might only know a couple of them which could include Diana's granddaughter Charlotte.


So as Osipi and Countessmeout point out in their posts, the popularity of princesses if rather subjective when it comes to individuals. For some it is based upon a glossy media driven version and for others it's rooted in how the princess performs her role as her nation's and her charities' representative. In some of the monarchies covered on this site, their cultural norms keep the princesses more or less sequestered. In other monarchies the princesses might be admired for following a more traditional role as a supporter to their husband. It's all very subjective so I truly can't say that definitely one princess is more popular than her peers.

 

[Osipi]

Note I didnt say anything wrong about Kate.


What I said was that she had done nothing Remarkable. Meaning that she would not be a household name if she was not married to the future king of Great Britain. If she was married to the future King of Belgium or such, no one woudl know who she was. For no matter what wonderful work she has done, very few people outside of Belgium and neighboring countries, would know she and her husband exist.

I even emphasized that Grace was known as a celebrity.

I try and not touch Diana as too many people idolize her as some kind of Mother Theresa on this site and I don't want to get into that.


My simple point: Kate is only 'one of the five princesses people will name' because for many people she is one of the only five princesses they know. Not because she has actually done anything to carve a global image for herself.


Sadly if it was actually about doing work and fufilling the role, and not about 'who is the most glamorous, who wears clothes the best', Camilla and Anne would be the ones gracing magazine covers.

I was trying to add onto the points that you made about Kate. She and William *were* the glamorous couple in love around the time of their wedding and it was well played out in the media as a "fairy tale wedding" type of thing to follow and watch. The Cambridges though in the ensuing years have definitely drawn a red line in the sand between their public roles and their private lives and control what is allowed to be shown of their private life and their children. Most photographs released to the public have been ones that Kate has taken herself so no gawping photographers at photo ops.

They're an unassuming couple not out for fame and glory to their name but focus on what they can do to support the monarchy and the "Firm". Sometimes they've even been called "boring". They're not out for personal acclaim and glory and attention and fawning masses and they're *respected* for that. To me, they do not fall into the "celebrity culture" circle that has surrounded a few other BRF members recently. They're what *real* princes and princesses are supposed to be like.

 

[Kitty1224]

Kate actually does a fantastic job doing what she's supposed to do. Support her husband and the "Firm" as part of "Team Windsor". She's not out to create a blitz of personal fame and adoration of the masses. Camilla actually does much better at fulfilling the role as consort to the Prince of Wales than Diana ever did or could. The Queen has recognized this by creating both Kate and Camilla as Dame Grand Cross of The Royal Victorian Order and Camilla sits on the Queen's privy council. To me, this means far more than the fawning adoration of the masses and the celebrity icon status Diana achieved.

Diana wrote the book on how not to be a senior working royal for the British Royal Family and if someone should say "there will never be another Diana", perhaps the best response to that is "Thank God!" Diana failed miserably in the job she was supposed to do. Support her husband and the family "Firm". The job of "Princess of the UK" as a working senior royal came with expectations that Diana never really met.

Diana may have been very popular in a celebrity way with the general public but she was not overly admired by the family she was supposed to represent and that's what really mattered.

I disagree with you that Diana failed miserably. If that was the case I guess those who benefitted from her support(AIDS and Landmines) and her human touch from her has been failed as well...

 

[Kitty1224]

That may be true about Diana and Grace, but Catherine

One if people were asked they would likely say Kate and not Catherine

And Kate is only as well known as she is for she is married into the BRF. The British royal family is the most famous plain and simple. Even people who don't follow royals know who they are. Kate is known because she is married to the future king of the one monarchy most people know, especially in English speaking countries (some people will say 'are there other monarchies').

If Kate was Princess Catherine of Spain no one would know who she was in the English speaking world. While she has done good work, she is not memorable. She isn't Time Magazine cover worthy like Diana and Grace were. She is not going to set the world on fire, or make a new legacy for others to follow.


Grace was known more because she was 'former Hollywood starlet' then anything she really did as a royal.

From people I've talked to who is in the UK they say Kate is really just "there" and not really memorable. They like her and her children thats it. I just think it takes a special kind of person to do what Diana did. She transcended the idea of being a princess, same as Grace. It is what it is.

 

[RandyDrx]

That may be true about Diana and Grace, but Catherine

One if people were asked they would likely say Kate and not Catherine

And Kate is only as well known as she is for she is married into the BRF. The British royal family is the most famous plain and simple. Even people who don't follow royals know who they are. Kate is known because she is married to the future king of the one monarchy most people know, especially in English speaking countries (some people will say 'are there other monarchies').

If Kate was Princess Catherine of Spain no one would know who she was in the English speaking world. While she has done good work, she is not memorable. She isn't Time Magazine cover worthy like Diana and Grace were. She is not going to set the world on fire, or make a new legacy for others to follow.


Grace was known more because she was 'former Hollywood starlet' then anything she really did as a royal.

To be fair, had Diana married Felipe instead of Charles, I doubt many in the English–speaking world would know about her.

Also, I think looks play a huge role here. Had these Queens and Princesses weren't conventionally attractive, I doubt that they would be as popular as they are now.

 

[Osipi]

I disagree with you that Diana failed miserably. If that was the case I guess those who benefitted from her support(AIDS and Landmines) and her human touch from her has been failed as well...

The point is that the accolades and credit for those successes were attributed to Diana and Diana alone. She was not a good team player for the "Firm" and the British monarchy which she was supposed to be representing. It kind of sucks when a member of the British parliament comes out calling her a "loose cannon". She failed miserably as a working senior royal for the "Firm".

 

[Kitty1224]

The point is that the accolades and credit for those successes were attributed to Diana and Diana alone. She was not a good team player for the "Firm" and the British monarchy which she was supposed to be representing. It kind of sucks when a member of the British parliament comes out calling her a "loose cannon". She failed miserably as a working senior royal for the "Firm".

Personally I think she did a great job and majority would say the same. Its not her fault she was more popular than all of them combined. She did her role well and brought the closeness of the royals to the people which was needed and esp needed during the times were in. But I guess we will agree to disagree. Personally Diana personified being a princess and did a tremendous job at it. Same with Grace.

 

[Osipi]

Personally I think she did a great job and majority would say the same. Its not her fault she was more popular than all of them combined. She did her role well and brought the closeness of the royals to the people which was needed and esp needed during the times were in. But I guess we will agree to disagree. Personally Diana personified being a princess and did a tremendous job at it. Same with Grace.

Yeps. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, m'friend. She may have been a huge success and popular with the general public but she wasn't held in high regard in the opinion of her "Boss" and the rest of her co-workers. She was a glorious celebrity icon but really didn't fit the "princess" job description in the UK. It's the difference between working for the "greater good" and the "greater glory of me".

A huge difference between Grace and Diana too, although they both died in car crashes, with Diana, it was the media frenzy that surrounded her that resulted in the end of her life in a tunnel in Paris. Both were tragedies.

 

[Kitty1224]

Yeps. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, m'friend. She may have been a huge success and popular with the general public but she wasn't held in high regard in the opinion of her "Boss" and the rest of her co-workers. She was a glorious celebrity icon but really didn't fit the "princess" job description in the UK. It's the difference between working for the "greater good" and the "greater glory of me".

A huge difference between Grace and Diana too, although they both died in car crashes, with Diana, it was the media frenzy that surrounded her that resulted in the end of her life in a tunnel in Paris. Both were tragedies.

But she did wok for the greater good. She helped AIDS patients, visited hospitals privately just to talk, was caring to the public. She did more to make an impact, and I feel you are disregarding it. She literally put a new meaning what a princess should be about(Its not always about conferences and being an ambassador). The way she did things is still used in the monarchy today.

Grace; the other royals thought she would be a jet setter and live lavishly but she proved them wrong and worked hard.

 

[Osipi]

You're right that she gave a new meaning to being a "princess". She was only a princess because of who she married and at the time of her death, she was no longer royal and was classified as a "former" Princess of Wales. Diana, Princess of Wales denotes that she was once *a* Princess of Wales. It's the same with Sarah, Duchess of York. All of Diana's brother, Charles' ex wives could go by (first name), Countess Spencer until they remarried. It's the way ex wives that are no longer royal are styled. Diana was never a "princess" in her own right.

In her role as Princess of Wales, it was expected that Diana would work for the "greater good" in lines with what the monarchy was trying to accomplish for their people. She had to get express permission from her "Boss", the Queen for the things that she did and wanted to do. After the separation, four years before she and Charles actually divorced by order of the Queen, they were just keeping up appearances but after divorce, she became a former Princess of Wales that was once married to the heir to the throne. After her divorce from Charles, she dropped the majority of her charities and causes. "The 100 or so charities Diana supported during her marriage were reduced to six after her divorce. She continued to support these causes diligently throughout the remainder of her life, and perhaps most notably in the final 12 weeks of her life." She was working then on her own and for her own self and not as a "Princess of the UK". She was not part of the royal "Firm" and working for the greater good they strive to do.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1996/07/16/Diana-quits-role-in-almost-100-charities/6983837489600/

Just thought I'd clarify this. It helps to know how the monarchy in the UK works and what is expected of their senior working royals that represent the Queen and the monarchy. She was a princess by marriage only and when that marriage ended, so did her being a "royal" end. She was stripped of her HRH and so was Sarah. They became "former" princesses at the time of divorce.

Hope this helps to understand what a "princess" is. ?

 

[Kitty1224]

You're right that she gave a new meaning to being a "princess". She was only a princess because of who she married and at the time of her death, she was no longer royal and was classified as a "former" Princess of Wales. Diana, Princess of Wales denotes that she was once *a* Princess of Wales. It's the same with Sarah, Duchess of York. All of Diana's brother, Charles' ex wives could go by (first name), Countess Spencer until they remarried. It's the way ex wives that are no longer royal are styled. Diana was never a "princess" in her own right.

In her role as Princess of Wales, it was expected that Diana would work for the "greater good" in lines with what the monarchy was trying to accomplish for their people. She had to get express permission from her "Boss", the Queen for the things that she did and wanted to do. After the separation, four years before she and Charles actually divorced by order of the Queen, they were just keeping up appearances but after divorce, she became a former Princess of Wales that was once married to the heir to the throne. After her divorce from Charles, she dropped the majority of her charities and causes. "The 100 or so charities Diana supported during her marriage were reduced to six after her divorce. She continued to support these causes diligently throughout the remainder of her life, and perhaps most notably in the final 12 weeks of her life." She was working then on her own and for her own self and not as a "Princess of the UK". She was not part of the royal "Firm" and working for the greater good they strive to do.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1996/07/16/Diana-quits-role-in-almost-100-charities/6983837489600/

Just thought I'd clarify this. It helps to know how the monarchy in the UK works and what is expected of their senior working royals that represent the Queen and the monarchy. She was a princess by marriage only and when that marriage ended, so did her being a "royal" end. She was stripped of her HRH and so was Sarah. They became "former" princesses at the time of divorce.

Hope this helps to understand what a "princess" is. ?

I'm well aware of what the princess role is in the UK.
I understand you are a hardcore royalist

At the end of the day we will disagree on this topic. She will forever be The People's Princess who did a fantastic job as Princess of the UK, and when she wasn't it didn't matter if she lost her title or not, she continued to break royal barriers and still a blueprint today in 2021

 

[Kitty1224]

It helps Grace was a well renowned Oscar winning actress!
But as a Princess she also: "She took part in the everyday life of the Principality, distributing gifts in the Palace throne room to the Monégasque children at Christmastime or organizing play days for them with her own children in the Palace gardens, dedicating streets or inaugurating facilities, visiting the local hospital or simply walking her children to school. She instigated many programs and facilities to make life in Monaco even more enjoyable for its residents and visitors: children’s playgrounds, gardens, flower shows, ballet evenings, festivals and much more."


This is what someone from Germany said about Grace: "Graces charm and down to earth personality, Grace was loved like family, we felt we knew her. She had that musical voice and a happy laugh, the Irish twinkle in her eye, you'd love her as a neighbor. "

I think Grace really personified being a princess. Special!

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Would you declare that part of Grace's popularity originally came from the fact that she had the career of being a movie actress? Some people became fans of her. When she got engaged, some of these same people were interested in paying attention to her in her new career as a princess.