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View Poll Results: CP couples - who made the most of it?
Mette Marit & Haakon 10 7.41%
Maxima & Willem Alexander 48 35.56%
Mary & Fred 35 25.93%
Felipe & Letizia 42 31.11%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 08-11-2007, 01:55 PM
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After I finished my post I already feared that I would leave the impression that crown princes(ses) should focus on a few topics and stay away from the others. This was actually not what I had in mind. They should of course cover a variety of topics, but it wouldn´t hurt for them to get extra involved in topics that they are most interested in. As the royal business is usually a family businesses there are enough members of the family to make sure that most parts of society are covered. IMHO it enhances the credibility of a Prince(ss) and it generates more lasting attention for the causes. For example almost all Dutchman know about microcredits due to Maxima while not many will remember that she baptised a ship once. Apart from the upper advantage it must be more satisfying for the princes(ses) to have something where they can focus upon instead of all those loose ends.

The UN/international involvement was the second doubt you had. I am in full agreement with you on that, it should not come at the expense of their own country. I think that when a balance is found this will not be a problem and many of the international causes are related to the home country as well. The Prince of Orange involved in watermanagment is not too surprising considering from what country he is, neither is Maxima´s involvement in micro credits as The Netherlands is the country that spends most money on foreign aid per inhabitant. She now also involved with Microcredits within the Netherlands, so domestic and UN-involvement combined. Furthermore ´working´ on such an international stage is enhancing their own knowledge, profile and even the reputation of the home country. As I said before, there should be a balance, it isn´t disirable that a Crown Prince spends most time abroad of course.
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  #22  
Old 08-11-2007, 02:38 PM
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The Netherlands is the country that spends most money on foreign aid per inhabitant. She now also involved with Microcredits within the Netherlands, so domestic and UN-involvement combined.
Mwhaaa I thought this was Norway
Well I think we agree, esp when the UN causes can be brought home and "down to earth" in the home countries like Maxima and Haakon do on a level were the average person can realted to it. My main point is that it is more important to visit all the parts of the country and meet people who might not be in the "internatonal high flying stage" but actually contrbute to the running of the country, even if is not in a spectacular way. With some royals I feel they are very centralised to the capital and to beeing abroad which is not desirable IMO. I feel some are so interested in creating an international and "important" profile they forget who make it possible for them to be there in the first place

and you say an Un work makes more of an impact, for who? for the people who met Maxima when she christened their ship? Or for people who spent their life dedicating them selves to beeing a nurse who got some audience or a meeting with some royal? And sure Maxima has a higher international profile in the Netherlands, but does she have a higher international profile world wide since beeing more involved with microcredit? She is no Muhammad Yunus presisly.

And I agree that for royals just doing 100 unrelated events and cut 50 ribbons a year is not so fulfilling so indeed having some focus area Im sure must be gratifying for them, that we agree on, but still they represent a country with many interests which must also be covered.
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  #23  
Old 08-11-2007, 02:57 PM
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Marengo usually I agree fully with you but not on this. They are not the Crown Prince (ss) of the UN, the are Heriess to the thrones of Norway, Denmark, Netherlands and Spain. IMo it is wrong if they spend more time in NY or wherever shaking hands with the "important" and famous than with regular people in their own countries.
I agree with Larzen in this point. I respect and admire the work some Crown Princes (ss) develop around the Globe but I think that first of all should their own country. They are not UN executives, and although is good to see them involved with noble causes, they exist as Crown heirs to work for the interests of their own country. I know Netherland, Norway or Sweden are rich countries, they don't many poors, but surely they have important areas that could be improved, and in my opinion the crown princes (ss) should be focused on that.
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  #24  
Old 08-11-2007, 08:03 PM
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Mwhaaa I thought this was Norway
Well I think we agree, esp when the UN causes can be brought home and "down to earth" in the home countries like Maxima and Haakon do on a level were the average person can realted to it. My main point is that it is more important to visit all the parts of the country and meet people who might not be in the "internatonal high flying stage" but actually contrbute to the running of the country, even if is not in a spectacular way. With some royals I feel they are very centralised to the capital and to beeing abroad which is not desirable IMO. I feel some are so interested in creating an international and "important" profile they forget who make it possible for them to be there in the first place

and you say an Un work makes more of an impact, for who? for the people who met Maxima when she christened their ship? Or for people who spent their life dedicating them selves to beeing a nurse who got some audience or a meeting with some royal? And sure Maxima has a higher international profile in the Netherlands, but does she have a higher international profile world wide since beeing more involved with microcredit? She is no Muhammad Yunus presisly.

And I agree that for royals just doing 100 unrelated events and cut 50 ribbons a year is not so fulfilling so indeed having some focus area Im sure must be gratifying for them, that we agree on, but still they represent a country with many interests which must also be covered.

I understand what you mean. All these highbrow things might be interesting on the resumee but have very little impact in real life, while more ´common´ visits to a cow-market might be making the day of several involved members of the public. I think the two walk hand in hand. For example Mette-Marit seems to have lots of spare time (or time that she isnt out with the public, working moms don t have a lot of spare time in general ), so why n ot still visit the cow markets, fancy fairs etc but add a little extra by an ambassadorship to the UN, raising awareness in your own country for a certain cause abroad and raising goodwill towards your country abroad.

It also depends on what in your opinion is how they serve the country best. IMHO the Queen, Crownprincely couple etc. don´t have to show up at every opening, fancy fair etc that is around. Mayors, ministers etc. can do the job to. A royal visit should be something exceptional, marking the specialness of the occassion. Sometimes I have the feeling that the public just sees them as well-dressed clowns (note that in Laurentiens case we can leave the well-dressed away). They are putting their mobile phones with camera in the faces of the royals! When I see Maxima jumping up and down on Queensday for games suitable for children o drunk people I wonder if they don´t lower themselves to much to do what the public wishes...

On a sidenote: the house of Orange under Prince Bernhard and Queen Beatrix is carefully spinning its web/network of friends in high places. Personally I think that the UN/EU jobs of the RF are part of this too. HM is keen to keep the royal influence as large as possible. If this is a very desirable thing is another matter, but IMHO that is certainly what they are doing. So though Maxima is no Mohammed Yunus, she knows Mr. Yunus, they befriended Kofi Annan etc. Good for the dynasty probably and consequently good for the country too, or at least not harmfull
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  #25  
Old 08-11-2007, 08:05 PM
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I agree with Larzen in this point. I respect and admire the work some Crown Princes (ss) develop around the Globe but I think that first of all should their own country. They are not UN executives, and although is good to see them involved with noble causes, they exist as Crown heirs to work for the interests of their own country. I know Netherland, Norway or Sweden are rich countries, they don't many poors, but surely they have important areas that could be improved, and in my opinion the crown princes (ss) should be focused on that.
well, I am not in disagreement with this, the royals first responsibility is their own country of course. But working in other countries can be for the good for your own country to of course. IMHO they walk hand in hand and complete- instead of excluding each other.
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  #26  
Old 08-11-2007, 10:51 PM
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I think once the royals establish themselves in their own country, its a natural extension to spread their sphere of influence to the international arena. And while we're not forgetting the important of the housewife who meets her Crown Prince and Crown Princess on a local royal walkabout, I hope that pride in one's own ordinary people doesn't turn into a reverse snobbishism against those that dedicate their time and effort to international causes and organizations like the U.N. These people are important too and they may be working on something important that parallels what a Crown Prince couple is attempting to accomplish within their own country. So by supporting an international effort, a Crown Prince couple can expand on and enhance on their work at home.

But the royals can't do everything, that's why I agree with Marengo that a focus on a few charities provides the best effectiveness and the optimal division of labour between the royals in a royal family ensures that all the important causes get coverage.
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  #27  
Old 08-12-2007, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I understand what you mean. All these highbrow things might be interesting on the resumee but have very little impact in real life, while more ´common´ visits to a cow-market might be making the day of several involved members of the public. I think the two walk hand in hand. For example Mette-Marit seems to have lots of spare time (or time that she isnt out with the public, working moms don t have a lot of spare time in general ), so why n ot still visit the cow markets, fancy fairs etc but add a little extra by an ambassadorship to the UN, raising awareness in your own country for a certain cause abroad and raising goodwill towards your country abroad.

It also depends on what in your opinion is how they serve the country best. IMHO the Queen, Crownprincely couple etc. don´t have to show up at every opening, fancy fair etc that is around. Mayors, ministers etc. can do the job to. A royal visit should be something exceptional, marking the specialness of the occassion. Sometimes I have the feeling that the public just sees them as well-dressed clowns (note that in Laurentiens case we can leave the well-dressed away). They are putting their mobile phones with camera in the faces of the royals! When I see Maxima jumping up and down on Queensday for games suitable for children o drunk people I wonder if they don´t lower themselves to much to do what the public wishes...

On a sidenote: the house of Orange under Prince Bernhard and Queen Beatrix is carefully spinning its web/network of friends in high places. Personally I think that the UN/EU jobs of the RF are part of this too. HM is keen to keep the royal influence as large as possible. If this is a very desirable thing is another matter, but IMHO that is certainly what they are doing. So though Maxima is no Mohammed Yunus, she knows Mr. Yunus, they befriended Kofi Annan etc. Good for the dynasty probably and consequently good for the country too, or at least not harmfull
Actually I think we agree mostly we are just vocalising it differently.
About Mette-Marit she does have an UN conection trough her beeing a special represnetative for UNAIDS, not that I think she does enough for it, she deff could step up and do more work in general.

About the family thing, this is all well and good if you have a large royal family, but take Sweden forinstance, there are at the present 3 working members of the royal family, the solo engagments of Madeleine and Carl Philip who are still students can be counted on one hand. The King has many things he simply has to do related to his office in Stockholm and that leaves much to the Queen and especially the Crown Princess, if they are not visiting the small places and the "insignificant" and "unspecial" events at small places in nowhere of Sweden, there are no "minor" royals to do it, and IMO if the royals are seen to only be in the lalrge town and abroad it gets them of in the wrong direction especially in countries like Sweden and Norway where the population is so very spread and many time unaccesible.

I agree that the UN/EU/intenrantional gigs are part of the work as well, and it does create some good-will towards the country, and I do not want them to think only about their own country, afterall that is not a very good example for their own people. However the value of this work Im unsure of, I mean todays country who are monarchys already give billions and around 1% of their BNP in forreign aid, how much good-will towards a country does a royal showing up at the UN create in comparrison to this money? I think sometimes on such boards as this the royal international role is a wee overrated, and yes the Yunus remark was just a silly comment, but I think in todays money focus world an accomplished forreign minister who actually has power to make decisions and money to give, visiting the UN has far more impact than any royal visit. so if the royals can bring their internation cause "home" and help create attention around the case in their own country and help highlight the need for money that is needed and what the ordinary people can do to help, Im all for it, but if it is just visiting the UN for the umptieth time to shake hand and have their pciture aken with the movers and shakers, well then I think their time is better spent elsewhere
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  #28  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:16 AM
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Felipe & Letizia: well, she doesn't have an agenda of her own, we only see her alongside Felipe, her sisters-in-law do the acts that should be presided by her
That is not true... as you well know. Her sisters-in-law have very few acts: Infantas Elena and Cristina have a simbolic average of only 3 acts per month, while Princess Letizia had an average of 25 acts per month (both presided by Prince Felipe and herself), during the first year and the remaining periods her agenda was not compromised by pregnancy.

The fact that she has little acts on her own doesn't mean she doesn't preside over them (lately, almost half of the events she attended were presided by her, although her husband accompanied her)... as a matter of fact that is a common practice in the Spanish Royal House. Queen Sofia - who is the Queen consort - doesn't have many acts on her own either, if you compare it with other European consorts (and certaily even lesser, if compare her to the Queens of England, Netherlands and Denmark).

Nevertheless, nobody questions that Queen Sofia and Princess Letizia are two of the most hard-working royal ladies in Europe and what is more: two ladies who know how to serve and addpt themselves to the causes of the royal family and to the expectations of their own country.

Quote:
(Countdown to attack 5...4...3...2...1...
Starts ducking flying objects)
The same countdown should be done, when someone criticises your Cris&Iñaki adored couple... I'm just afraid it wouldn't take so much time till someone reacted
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  #29  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:11 PM
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I believe that every couple must answer to the needs and requirements of their country. There are things that some countries are normal and in totally inconceivable others.

I agree with Elsa. The Infantas do not do the work that the Princess should do, the Infantas are in the habit of coming to acts for a series of institutions, with which in many cases they go collaborating years. They have an agenda that limit to a few acts a month. They continue being daughters of the King, and in addition these few acts allow them to continue receiving money of the State. Probably, now many of the new requests that before were going to them, now go to the Princess, but they continue with the activities that go compromised years.

I agree with Larzen when she has commented that the Inheritors owe especially to their countries, this it is necessary to to be the priority. Many princes and princesses collaborate with international organizations, my doubt is the following one. When they collaborate with an international institution, they do it only in general activities of these institutions or do it in activities linked to their owncountries. I do not know if I have explained it well. For example, in case of Spain the Queen Sofia collaborates for many years with the microcredits. When she realizes a trip of cooperation, she visits places in which it has informed the Spanish cooperation.
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  #30  
Old 08-13-2007, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by crisiñaki View Post
Maxima and Willem-Alexander are by far the best CP couple IMO, they both work hard, represent very strong and important causes (microcredits and water management) and they are liked a lot

Fred & Mary: they adore each other, but Mary does more work than Fred, I mean, she's like everywhere at once doing solo acts and such, while we see Fred a lot less, I like them both a lot but I would like to see Fred working more

Mette Marit & Haakon: she has improved so much, from a shady past to the CP she's today, she still has a lot of work to do but it's great; Haakon seems to be a little whipped though and that doesn't help his future King image much

Felipe & Letizia: well, she doesn't have an agenda of her own, we only see her alongside Felipe, her sisters-in-law do the acts that should be presided by her; I used to like Felipe when he was single, now I don't like him that much and I don't like them as a couple: Letizia supposedly was a XXI century woman with strong beliefs and a career and now she hides behind pregnancies and lactancy, I don't like them together, 'cuz I don't think they win much together, they would do much better separately

(Countdown to attack 5...4...3...2...1...
Starts ducking flying objects)
I totally agree with you

Máxima&WA make a great great team

and Felipe&Letizia... 0 popularity in Spain
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  #31  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:05 AM
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and Felipe&Letizia... 0 popularity in Spain
Again, that is not true either. The recent opinion poll / enquest lead by El Pais showed precisely the contrary. The Prince and Princess of Asturias enjoy a great popularity among the Spanish population and the heir saw his appreciation highly increasing after the wedding.

Since you don't read the most relevant Spanish papers and you do not live in Spain either, your statement corresponds to a mere personal dislike towards the couple and not corresponds to the general opinion of the Spaniards.
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  #32  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:32 AM
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Again, that is not true either. The recent opinion poll / enquest lead by El Pais showed precisely the contrary. The Prince and Princess of Asturias enjoy a great popularity among the Spanish population and the heir saw his appreciation highly increasing after the wedding.

Since you don't read the most relevant Spanish papers and you do not live in Spain either, your statement corresponds to a mere personal dislike towards the couple and not corresponds to the general opinion of the Spaniards.
I couldn't agree more, People who dislike Pinces of Asturias have to compare them with another crown couple for make them look the worst, It is a pity people can't give their opinion with a serious statement, just saying things that they have never heard, and want people believe in that stupid things, for example I don't have to say anything against Denmark crown couple, They don't like me, for me Frederik do nothing, but that isn't my problem, I just say cool things about what I like, and so on.
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:26 PM
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Again, that is not true either. The recent opinion poll / enquest lead by El Pais showed precisely the contrary. The Prince and Princess of Asturias enjoy a great popularity among the Spanish population and the heir saw his appreciation highly increasing after the wedding.

Since you don't read the most relevant Spanish papers and you do not live in Spain either, your statement corresponds to a mere personal dislike towards the couple and not corresponds to the general opinion of the Spaniards.
Ok

Not that I dislike Letizia, but I don't think she is popular at all Its just my opinion
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  #34  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:42 PM
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Ok

Not that I dislike Letizia, but I don't think she is popular at all Its just my opinion
According to El País, it seems the Spanish Couple has a good popularity. El Pais is a "serious" newspaper, so I doubt of this result. But by other side, I don't think spanish people are Crazy about Letizia. In spanish forums she is not very popular and when I was in Spain I asked to some people I met what did they think about her. They said they admire the King, they respect the Queen very very much, but they didn't feel any special excitment about Letizia. She's ok, she had difficult times and she faced them with dignity, but that's it. These people didn't seem to care a lot about her and the Prince. This happened in Madrid, maybe other spanish regions have different views about her or maybe I talked with the wrong people.

By my side, and sorry if I am repeating myself, I like Letizia a lot. She seems so bright, alert and energetic. That's why I feel sorry for not see her taking an active and principal role in any important event. Anyway, it's obvious she and the Prince are very in love and that's already a wonderful thing to watch.
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Old 08-13-2007, 01:06 PM
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Its too bad we can't rank the couples.

I think Willem-Alexander and Maxima have made the most of their position because they were allowed to. It appears that the position of the monarch in the Netherlands allows for the heirs to take on serious involvement concerning world issues - a freedom that doesn't appear to be allowed in other monarchies.

I think Felipe and Letizia have made the most of the position that they were allowed but they have not been allowed too much - especially Letizia.
I agree to Henri in these two. And I would like to add that the key in the Máxima - WA 'team' is that they work great either together or separately. IMHO That's why they add so much to the Crown (and to each other in their role)
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Old 08-13-2007, 01:10 PM
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I personally think that Maxima and Willem have the made the most of it. It seems to me that Maxima has added that spark to help bring the dutch monarchy from out of the "boring list." Plus they do many things to help the country look good.
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Old 08-13-2007, 01:59 PM
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Mary and Frederick
I think Frederick is a good example of why Hereditary Monarchy does not work. Despite his deficencies in public speaking, lack of leadership and general laziness he will be King simply because he was born first. As Queen Consort Mary will have her work cut out for her to smooth out her hubby's deficencies and pick up the slack. That's when we will see whether Mary is indeed more than a fashion princess.

MM and Haakon
The way of life and choices she made prior to marriage suggested a serious lack of class, something that also became evident after marriage (the airplane incident, walking down the red carpet in jeans). A Norway reporter once said that the people did not object to her because she was a commoner, but because she was such a common commoner. No amount of time and money can make her regal. Haakon may have married the love of his life, but in doing so filled the job of crownprincess poorly. Another flaw of monarchy, people marrying into a job.

Maxima and WA
These two fit perfect together and seem to complement each other well. There never seems to be any visible tension between them. I think they are making the most of their positions and have great fun doing so.

Felipe and Letizia
I feel for Letizia, the once outspoken and independent woman, now reduced to a breeding machine, rarely allowed to leave her mans side. She does seem to get on well with her in-laws, though, and does not appear unhappy in pictures.

Charles and Camilla
They should have married thirty years ago. Why Charles let himself being pressured into a marriage with Diana I will never understand. Was he afraid for his inheritence or did he actually believe he was obligated to marry a virgin? At least this story has a happy ending.
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  #38  
Old 08-13-2007, 02:10 PM
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Mary and Frederick
I think Frederick is a good example of why Hereditary Monarchy does not work. Despite his deficencies in public speaking, lack of leadership and general laziness he will be King simply because he was born first. As Queen Consort Mary will have her work cut out for her to smooth out her hubby's deficencies and pick up the slack. That's when we will see whether Mary is indeed more than a fashion princess.

(...)

Felipe and Letizia
I feel for Letizia, the once outspoken and independent woman, now reduced to a breeding machine, rarely allowed to leave her mans side. She does seem to get on well with her in-laws, though, and does not appear unhappy in pictures.
Well Sylla, I have to agree on these two. Though I don't really imagine Joachim making a better King than Frederik, I think he'll do - but certainly Mary has a lot of rowing ahead to spice up things a little bit!

Leti...a mere accesory to Felipe, till now at least. But every crown princess is somehow expected to be a breeding machine... am I wrong?
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:24 PM
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My Top Four:
1.) Maxima & Willem Alexander
2.) Mette Marit & Haakon
2.) Felipe & Letizia
4.) Frederik & Mary

Maxima and Willem Alexander are so nice and natural - they have many social patronages.
Mette-Marit and Haakon are so "normal" - they also have many social patronages (I like that very much).
Felipe and Letizia are so sweet and they are head over heels in love - they seem to be very smart and intelligent.
Frederik and Mary are a little bit artificial - just sailing and fashion (it seems to me like that, because I am not very interested in the Danish Royal couples).
What is about Mathilde and Philippe?
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:04 PM
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As a couple certainly Willem-Alexander and Maxima. They seem to bedoing this all on an equal basis, which I like. Maxima could keep her own identity, religion, interests and even her tacky names (for her daughters).

With all the other couples I feel there is a bit of an inbalance.
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