The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #81  
Old 08-05-2011, 05:54 AM
American Dane's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York and Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSENYC
Sorry but I can't agree.

In most every Western European country, while the monarch isn't directly elected by the people, the monarch obtains the position following rules of succession which are usually in the country's constitution or are determined by the country's legislature. That is democratic. (Even in the US, the President isn't directly elected- the Electoral College casts ballots for the President and, as the 2000 election showed, doesn't have to follow the popular vote.)

And true, the monarch inherits the throne, but monarchs in Western European countries don't have much if any real political power. The prime minister in a monarchy is elected, and that's where the power lies.

Democracies also have plenty of leaders who are not elected but who have a lot of power- much more than a Western European king or queen. For example, Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the US Federal Reserve, has a huge influence on the US and world economy. He isn't elected; he's picked by the President and Congress.

And which countries in the world are the most democratic and free? Disproportionately constitutional monarchies:

Democracy Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of the 10 most free and most democratic countries, 7 are monarchies. (Note: the US ranks 17th.)

^^^^^^ Thank you! That's exactly what I said in a previous post in this thread.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 08-05-2011, 05:55 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,844
Who do not consider constitutional monarchies as democratic does not know history of constitutional law.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 08-06-2011, 02:40 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,354
I consider myself a royalist (I like reading about royalty, what they are doing, etc). There are times when I wished that I was born in royalty (I would never do cooking, cleaning, housework, yardwork). Everything would be done for me as far as hair and makeup goes. This is not reality of course (just nice dreaming about it).

I've never been passionate about whether a royal household should be reinstated or a monarchy restored or reinstated. Arguments about who the successor should be doesn't upset me or put me in soap box mode. I'm sure many people of this blog are grateful for that.

I've read about this lawsuits and these disputes, but some of it I just roll my eyes although I know people take these things very seriously. Anyone who did this in their presence would probably be strongly rebuked for doing so.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 08-07-2011, 12:06 PM
martina's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Praha, Czech Republic
Posts: 252
I am a royalist and I would like live in kingdom
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 08-08-2011, 07:01 AM
queenofcelts's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kiev, Ukraine
Posts: 510
i am, in spite living in democratic country now and being born in the USSR-)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 08-09-2011, 09:11 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofcelts View Post
i am, in spite living in democratic country now and being born in the USSR-)
Out of curiosity, what type of monarchy do you want?

I was just reading a book about Tsar Nicholas; he was an absolute monarch, which I didn't know. Does a history of living under an absolute monarchy make people in the former Russian Empire less pro-monarchy or more, and do people want that kind of Tsar back?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 08-10-2011, 06:10 AM
queenofcelts's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kiev, Ukraine
Posts: 510
I am not sure if I want back those times of Nicolas 2nd, even my grandmother was not born yet-))) But in 1905 Russian empire, including our country Ukraine, had strong developed economy and many opportunities to become very powerful.
It is hard to say what kind of monarchy can be suitable to modern times for our country, but not absolute monarchy that is for sure, i think that is impossible. That is just my opinion, i have not communicated with Russians our my fellow countrymen about such subjects. But what do we need and want is stability, whoever can provide this for us.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 08-10-2011, 08:03 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,354
My grandmother's family came from Lativia (escaped from the Czar's troops). Let's just say that they weren't fans of the Czar or his army. When he was overthrown they didn't feel sorry for him (they didn't wish he or his family dead but believed that his actions over the years contributed to him being ousted from power).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 08-10-2011, 08:33 PM
Daria_S's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: My own head, United States
Posts: 7,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
My grandmother's family came from Lativia (escaped from the Czar's troops). Let's just say that they weren't fans of the Czar or his army. When he was overthrown they didn't feel sorry for him (they didn't wish he or his family dead but believed that his actions over the years contributed to him being ousted from power).
Interesting. A good number of my family has roots in Bellorussia, Ukraine, Poland, Georgia and of course Russia. My maternal grandfather's family is Jewish, and they were definitely not fans of the Tsarist regime. They were restricted to so-called pales of settlement (a sector of land where only Jews were allowed to live, usually not very good land, and on the outskirts of a particular province (gubernia). Though my family never suffered directly as a result of pogroms (riots agains the Jewish villages that were apparently backed up by the authorities), they certainly were restricted when it came to possessions (could only own two of everything per family member).

Now, on the other side, my maternal grandmother's family were not Jewish and had the privilege to be members of the gentry. They were pretty loyal to the Tsar (my grandmother's maternal grandfather was in the Imperial Army), and she would often tell me how her maternal grandmother would tell her about the life that was lived before the revolution. My grandmother still remembers those stories and she passed them down to me. Like me, she's an old soul and loves the idea of a monarchy, culture, tradition and sophistication (she has been told that her Russian is very 'sophisticated' and that she sounds like a very education person from the 'old Russia'). I think my monarchist/royalist tendencies come from her mother's side of the family.

Now, yet another side. My paternal great-grandmother and grandmother were staunch anti-monarchist (actually they were anti-everything pre-revolution). My great-grandmother was born in 1916, to a very impoverished peasant in Ukraine. She told me of the life her family (parents, aunts and uncles) had to endure because of Tsarist regime. Her stories were the first ones I heard (the other side of the coin I found out when I was living in US and was a bit older), and I remember not really feeling all to sympathetic towards the Tsar's fate. I saw him as evil and selfish.

Just like your family, my grandmother felt that the rich and the Tsar brought it all on themselves. She didn't show any pity about their fate either. She felt he was one evil and horrid man who allowed his people to starve while he and his followers 'ate off of gold and silver'.

I'm still amazed at my monarchist leanings, because my earliest memories (prior to age eight) of anything royal are associated with hardship and sorrow.


se
__________________
"My guiding principles in life are to be honest, genuine, thoughtful and caring".
~Prince William~


I'm not obsessed with royalty...I just think intensely about it.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 08-10-2011, 08:42 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 214
Very interesting. I've been reading this:

BARNES & NOBLE | George, Nicholas and Wilhelm: Three Royal Cousins and the Road to World War I by Miranda Carter | NOOK Book (eBook), Paperback, Hardcover, Audiobook

Tsar Nicholas seemed like a nice guy who just wasn't up for governing. Kaiser Wilhelm seemed like a nutcase. Unfortunately both of them had real power. If my only exposure to monarchs were people like that, I'd be anti-monarchy.

My family is from Scandinavia and the UK and my relatives who have an opinion on the topic are pro-monarchy, as they have had positive experiences with it in those countries. I liked in the Low Countries and also think positively of that kind of monarchy. But the Tsar or the Kaiser- no thanks.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 08-10-2011, 08:44 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring Hill, United States
Posts: 2,533
Constitutional monarchies are democratic. But if you don't have this appendage, why would you want one? Restoring monarchies, today, is archaic. What is, is fine. I don't see anyone lining up to restore any monarchy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 08-10-2011, 09:13 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brooklyn, United States
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by martina View Post
I am a royalist and I would like live in kingdom
I agree. I'm from the US, with roots in Puerto Rico, but I'd like to live in a monarchy. I'd just like one that isn't so...prone to controversy
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 08-11-2011, 07:14 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,354
My maternal grandmother's family was Jewish and lived in a small town near Riga, Lativa. It was a small village back in the 1890's (now it's a large industrial city). I can't remember the name of the town but I would know it if I heard the name. A neighboring town suffered a pogrom and many people in that town were killed. Houses were set on fire, people were killed. A couple of people from that town escaped and warned my grandmother's relatives and others in the village that they might be next. I don't know if the village was later attacked or not because my great-grandmother and several relatives left shortly thereafter.

My grandmother was told that it was the Russian Army was involved in and planned this attack. There were Russian Army troops everywhere who wouldn't think twice of killing anyone whether they be Jewish or Lativan who tried to flee the area.

Many people in the area were verbally threatened and told that they would be hunted down to the ends of the earth and killed if they tried to escape or leave. The quickest way to flee was where the Russian troops were deployed.

Those who escaped often did so during the dead of winter in the woods and prayed that they wouldn't be caught (they would be killed on sight by Russian troops). From there (not sure how much time passed between escaping in the woods to getting into the row boat) they got into a large row boat and went across the Baltic sea to another country. Not sure which country they landed (could have been Poland, Estonia or Finland). The trip was very risky as the water in the Baltic Sea is very cold most of the year. It took a long time about six months to a year before they got to America. The year was 1896.

My grandmother was born in the United States. She heard these stories from her mother and from her aunts as young child. When she was a teenager, the Czar was overthrown. If her mind, what goes around, comes around was her reaction to this. As I said earlier, she didn't wish him or his family ill-will but believed his actions over the years contributed to this violent overthrow.

The word Russian Army invoked fear in my grandmother till the day she died. People who didn't know the family history or whose families were not from Eastern Europe thought the fear was somewhat irrational. When I took a Russian history class when I was in college, several people in the class whose families roots were in Eastern Europe wanted to take the class to better understand the history of the region and their own roots in those countries. This was one reason why I took the class. I also was interested in the Russian royalty history as well.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 08-11-2011, 07:29 PM
Daria_S's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: My own head, United States
Posts: 7,155
I remember reading about a massacre that occurred in Latvia (don't remember which city, possibly Riga) in 1906. Many Jewish businesses were destroyed, and a good number of people (Jews and gentiles) were killed. What really got me though was the fact that according to the author of the account (and I want to say it was Radzinskii), Nikolai II had no idea that this even went on. Apparently, the governor of that region gave an 'ok' for this pogrom, but the word didn't reach Nikolai II until months after the event. Really goes to show how ineffective the system was, and how corrupt the authorities could be.

On the subject of monarchists, I have cousins who are Jewish, and their children go to a modern Orthodox Yashivah (a Jewish day school). I remember one Thanksgiving, I brought over a bunch of things from an exhibit that dealt with the last Imperial Family. I showed the children pictures of the Grand Duchesses and Aleksei, and was told right away that they were evil people, who didn't like Jews, and had no qualms killing them. Their father is a history buff, and I enjoyed having discussions about Russian history with him, because he always brought in a perspective that I didn't consider. I just found it interesting that his children were so adamant to condemn even Imperial children of the beliefs that were so prominent in the high circles of Russian society (there's no proof of course that Nikolai's children were even taught any anti-Jewish propaganda). Needless to say, these cousins are very much anti-monarchy.
__________________
"My guiding principles in life are to be honest, genuine, thoughtful and caring".
~Prince William~


I'm not obsessed with royalty...I just think intensely about it.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 08-11-2011, 08:26 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,354
I was told by my grandmother that the Czars of Russia used Russian troops against people and countries for the purposes of power and control and the list of people and countries (mostly Eastern Europe) they did this to or attempted to do this to was very long. People of Jewish ancestry, Lativans and Lativans of Jewish ancestry were just a few of these who were targeted. Russian citizens were also attacked as well. It was being power hungry, wanting to take over or control other countries and persecuting others that let to the downfall of the Czars.

My grandmother only condemned the Czars and those directly involved in these actions. Or those who knew about it. She didn't condemn their families or the Russian people.

Although my great-grandmother was Jewish, my grandmother was only half-Jewish. Her father was a gentile. This was considered to be a scandal at the time period (1902) but this is another story, another time. She was never raised in the Jewish community or raised as Jewish. However, she was around her Jewish relatives from time to time so she had an understand of the Jewish culture and religion to a certain degree.

I would have to say Daria S that what was said at the Orthodox Yashivah (Jewish Day School) is something similiar that I've heard said from people of Jewish heritage whose families came from Russia or Eastern Europe. These were a few people so I can't say that this is everyone or if this is how the majority of people of Jewish ancestry whose families came from Russia or Eastern Europe feels about the Czars.

But I can say that in reading Russian History some of the things that were done to people by various Czars were very disturbing to read. I had to briefly stop reading a Russian history book because I started to cry because I pictured in my mind these things being done. As you can guess, my friends thought I was nuts.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:02 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,354
Had I lived in Lativia in 1896, I would be anti-monarchy. The same would be true if I lived under the reign of Henry VIII.

I am a royalist because I live in the 21st century. The idea of royalty is fascinating to me.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:09 PM
Daria_S's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: My own head, United States
Posts: 7,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
Had I lived in Lativia in 1896, I would be anti-monarchy. The same would be true if I lived under the reign of Henry VIII.

I am a royalist because I live in the 21st century. The idea of royalty is fascinating to me.
You bring up a very good point. I think because we're living in a time where monarchies, for the most part, are ceremonial. I'm sure if I were to be transported to the times of Ivan the Terrible, or Henry VIII, I would be singing a very different tune. I think a great deal of people who were wronged by the system are angry (and rightly so), and feel that anything that will provide a relief of their troubles (even if it's a drastic and bloody regime change) will be better than what they've got at the moment.
__________________
"My guiding principles in life are to be honest, genuine, thoughtful and caring".
~Prince William~


I'm not obsessed with royalty...I just think intensely about it.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 10-22-2011, 11:06 PM
hellokittylover's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 9
I am against absolute monarchies. When it comes to constitutional monarchies, I certainly wouldn't want it for my country (the USA) but if another country wants it, I'm fine with that. I love following royal news, though
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 10-22-2011, 11:42 PM
hrhNJ's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: N/A, Canada
Posts: 41
I think that I'm a monarchist in constitutional monarchies, but I don't think that any countries need to restore their monarchy (i.e: the US, Russia, Greece, France, etc). For example, my Queen is Elizabeth II, and I would hate it if the monarchy ever left. But my friends in the States don't hate the monarchy, but they don't care about having one back. Basically: If you've got one, keep it. If you don't, whatever
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 10-23-2011, 06:56 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,354
The United States is probably one of the few countries in the world that never have a monarchy or a King or Queen. The founding fathers didn't want a King or Queen to rule their nation. In most countries throughout the world you had this system in place to a certain degree.

If the United States had a monarchy it would be very different from traditional monarchies. It probably wouldn't be recognized as being royal because those in the monarchy would not be royal by blood according to European standards of the day, even though these people would be considered the American elite or upper class. to the average American.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Newbie Royalist from Los Angeles MichelleQ2 Member Introductions and Updates 7 08-07-2011 12:13 PM
I am a Royalist from Canada osmond75 Member Introductions and Updates 2 05-18-2011 07:08 AM




Popular Tags
belgium brussels carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion genealogy germany grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jewellery jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg nobility official visit olympics ottoman pieter van vollenhoven poland president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion queen fabiola queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:48 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]