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  #21  
Old 07-30-2011, 05:26 PM
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France had 5 Republics,two Empires...but Constitutional Monarchy could always be back.A French interested in Royalty is not monarchist maybe because in France there is a division between "legitimistes" and "orleanistes".
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  #22  
Old 07-30-2011, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Sancia View Post
Most of the European countries are historical monarchies, so that is maybe not a proof.

But that is what I meant with Italy as an example (and I'm sure you'd agree that some tourism to France results from the beautiful palaces there). I meant other States such as America or Brazil or so on. Sure both have a lot of tourism but the amount of visitors that pass through Kensington Palace outweighs those who walk through the limited spaces allowed in the White House now or go to LA or spend weeks on the beach in Rio.

I am not a monarchist. Interested in current European monarchies and historical ones, yes, but I am not in favour of a monarchy in my country. Some good friends of mine are and it is very interesting to discuss about it, but I don't really like the monarchist ideas in France.
And I completely respect that as I have friends who don't believe in a monarchy, etc. I think perhaps because of the actions of the last few French Kings, monarchy in France has become sullied as opposed to where living in Australia for a while now compared to my native New York has cemented my advocacy of monarchism.

I find it very unlikely that any former monarchy or never-was-a-monarchy will suddenly become one, but I also feel the fear of current ones being toppled is very small.
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  #23  
Old 07-30-2011, 05:30 PM
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The last thing France needs is the skirmish between pretenders, who had got the second chance and failed it.
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2011, 05:31 PM
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Any non-reigning Royal Family can return on the Throne if peoples want that.
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2011, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
I am not. They served little purpose, many were absuive. Today's, limited, constitutional monarchies are fine, for where they are. It is not the single most successful form of government. I doubt any on that long list want a return of monarchy. It is a time past.

And yet 2/3 of the 10 least corrupt nations are constitutional monarchies and over half of the top 20 happiest countries are constitutional monarchies.

It is easy to not realize that as Americans we are force-fed the bad, mad King George III and thus all kings are tyrants who our courageous (yet morally deplorable) founding fathers defeated in the Revolutionary War.

Italy and Greece can benefit from having non-political monarchs at the current moment. Will they possible restore their former monarchies and the successors (or disputed successors) in time? Absolutely not.
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  #26  
Old 07-30-2011, 05:39 PM
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Except maybe Montenegro or Serbia it is rather difficult the process of abolishing the Republics ( which are former Monarchies) in Europe.
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  #27  
Old 07-30-2011, 06:07 PM
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As someone who voted against Australia becoming a republic in 1999 I find that my attitude to Australia remaining a monarchy has changed and now firmly support the ending of the monarchy - particularly as it is a foreign monarch -here.

I am happy to follow the BRF - IN BRITAIN - but would like to see the links between the Queen and Australia end so we can be fully represented by one of our own.

If somewhere back in history the British monarch had been forward thinking and had put their younger children on the throne as King/Queen of Australia and we now had our own monarch instead of one we share and one whose first loyalty will always be to another country I would have remained a monarchist for Australia - and I suspect the entire republican debate would not have really arisen here.

Do I think that monarchies will/should be restored in Europe - no - they are an outdated institution, particularly in democracies. Where the democracy developed to include them - fine, but to impose them on a democracy isn't going to happen.
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  #28  
Old 07-30-2011, 06:09 PM
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Constitutional Monarchies ARE democratic systems so...
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  #29  
Old 07-30-2011, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
As someone who voted against Australia becoming a republic in 1999 I find that my attitude to Australia remaining a monarchy has changed and now firmly support the ending of the monarchy - particularly as it is a foreign monarch -here.

I am happy to follow the BRF - IN BRITAIN - but would like to see the links between the Queen and Australia end so we can be fully represented by one of our own.

If somewhere back in history the British monarch had been forward thinking and had put their younger children on the throne as King/Queen of Australia and we now had our own monarch instead of one we share and one whose first loyalty will always be to another country I would have remained a monarchist for Australia - and I suspect the entire republican debate would not have really arisen here.

Do I think that monarchies will/should be restored in Europe - no - they are an outdated institution, particularly in democracies. Where the democracy developed to include them - fine, but to impose them on a democracy isn't going to happen.

I can understand that view and I have friends who share it -- as well as being relatively new to Australia compared to you who was born here, and thus may be viewed as not having a right to speak on the question of Australia and monarchy -- but don't you think the Australian-born and Australian-educated Governor-General is your local head of state?

I think moving to a country with a different type of political system as opposed to staying in one country my entire life or spending a year abroad allows one to view things differently than those who don't, if that makes sense.
My country of birth is adjacent to another Commonwealth country who still holds the Queen as formal head of state. The difference in health care, taxes, corruption, education, and general happiness is remarkable. I think you can guess which one is which. And I believe the Queen as head of state of Canada is somewhat to credit for this.

Australia is a democratic country and yet it is a monarchy as well. Monarchy guarantees one thing: political neutrality (even with the case of Charles' causes).

But as I said before, I completely respect your opinion, I just differ from it.
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  #30  
Old 07-30-2011, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I'm strictly a constitutional monarchist. I support monarchies in democratic countries.
Same. I think that monarchy, as it exists in northwestern Europe and the Commonwealth (and a few other places- not the Middle East) is a form of government that has advantages that republics do not have, and I'm intrigued by politics and different forms of government.

I'm not in favor of restoring all non-ruling houses because many of them were poor leaders and thus lost their thrones (King Constantine comes to mind, as does the Shah of Iran).

Quote:
I am happy to follow the BRF - IN BRITAIN - but would like to see the links between the Queen and Australia end so we can be fully represented by one of our own.
I respect your position but view things differently. As non-Briton, I'd be glad to have some type of connection with the BRF- countries that have the Queen as head of state are part of something larger than each individual country, and the Queen is "[y]our own". She's just as much the Queen of Australia as she is the Queen of England.
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  #31  
Old 07-30-2011, 06:47 PM
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A Constitutional Monarch is not a leader and Greece would be different with Monarchy now ...not to speak about Iran.Constitutional monarchy...
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  #32  
Old 07-30-2011, 06:50 PM
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Could you elaborate which are the advantages you have mentioned ?
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  #33  
Old 07-30-2011, 06:52 PM
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Political stability,foreign credibility and another trust of people ...
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  #34  
Old 07-30-2011, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CSENYC View Post
I respect your position but view things differently. As non-Briton, I'd be glad to have some type of connection with the BRF- countries that have the Queen as head of state are part of something larger than each individual country, and the Queen is "[y]our own". She's just as much the Queen of Australia as she is the Queen of England.

First off she isn't the Queen of England. She is the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and then Queen of countries like Australia, New Zealand, Canada etc but no Queen of England.

She doesn't represent all the realms of which she is Queen equally as that would be impossible.

At the most recent campaign for the football World Cup William - the future King of Australia - actively campaigned against Australia's bid to host the 2018 (until we withdrew from that year and only went for 2022) - that is a problem for me.

That is symptomatic of the problem of having a foriegn personage as Head of State as that person can't properly represent all of the countries.
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  #35  
Old 07-30-2011, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by American Dane View Post
I can understand that view and I have friends who share it -- as well as being relatively new to Australia compared to you who was born here, and thus may be viewed as not having a right to speak on the question of Australia and monarchy -- but don't you think the Australian-born and Australian-educated Governor-General is your local head of state?
If the GG is Head of State then what is the position of the Queen?

You can't have two Heads of State.

The GG does the job and should have the entire position and remove the Queen from the equation as she simply has no connection here.
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  #36  
Old 07-30-2011, 08:07 PM
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I suppose this discussion should be held at the forum dedicated to UK.
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  #37  
Old 07-30-2011, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
If the GG is Head of State then what is the position of the Queen?

You can't have two Heads of State.

The GG does the job and should have the entire position and remove the Queen from the equation as she simply has no connection here.

The GG is the official Head of State sanctioned by the Government of the day. The Queen is the formal Head of State by law. They're two different things.
The Queen is a further check and balance in regards to the GG. Should the GG act not in the interest of the majority of Australians, and the PM for some reason doesn't have the power to stop that act, that is where the Queen could hypothetically come in.
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  #38  
Old 07-30-2011, 08:20 PM
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This is a thread where we could say if we are monarchists or not.
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  #39  
Old 07-30-2011, 08:33 PM
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This is a thread where we could say if we are monarchists or not.

You're right Cory, this thread has gone a bit off topic -- partly by me -- by focusing on one monarchy specifically. Maybe the mods could move the discussion about the Queen to perhaps the "Queen and Australia..." thread instead.
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  #40  
Old 07-30-2011, 08:44 PM
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Here we discuss if we are monarchists or not.
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