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  #201  
Old 08-21-2016, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Honeslty I think that that's very trivial in itself, I mean if people buy clothes because they saw Princess Diana or little George or Vic Beckham wearing them. What does it matter? Now if people voted a particular way or say developed some viewpoint because of a celebrity, or prominent person, it might be a lot more seirous.
I knew a lady who was the nicest person, and very sensible who said that in the early 80s she asked for a "lady Diana" haircut.. - like no doubt loads of other perfectly sensible women...
And in many ways an "endorsement" from a royal or celebrity can be a very good thing. One doctor said (in Tina Browns book on Diana) that when Diana spoke about her bulimia, a mother of a child who had an eating disorder, was able to understand her child's problem and realise it was nothing to be ashamed of...
Call it trivial, that's okay. What does it matter? It doesn't matter anything, but it's something I wonder about sometimes and at times I find it exaggerated. What use does it have to buy something only because, say, Prince George wore it but you don't actually like the thing itself?
May be trivial, but that's where I set a question mark.

I wouldn't necessarily call your example an endorsement, which -according to me- is literally taken a product that's praised by someone famous- but rather a high profile acknowledgement of something very serious.
That can take borders away and is important.
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  #202  
Old 09-23-2016, 07:20 PM
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why worry about soemthing like that? So some idiots buy things because George wears them and not because they like them?
I'm sure you know what I meant by an endorsement, in that Diana's public speaking about various issues helped to make a difference to people in trouble.. so what does it matter if some people bought clothes because she wore them? her public image, what she did and said in public had its good side and its trivial side.
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  #203  
Old 09-23-2016, 07:41 PM
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In the world of advertising, its been proven time and time again that if you want to sell something, have someone that the folks can identify with to push it. Here in the US, to reach the senior citizens, we have the "Fonz" Henry Winkler pushing something and Alex Trebek (Jeopardy) pushing something else. Jennifer Aniston pushes a couple of products. To me, it preys on people's mindset to be "just like" someone they identify with.

Diana was a woman that was very much admired, loved, followed and even in the worst of times, drew on people's heartstrings. There were a bazillion women out there that liked what they saw on her and wanted it as their own. I can well remember walking into a beauty salon in the 80s and just stating I wanted a "Diana" haircut.

The difference is that Diana wasn't pushing anything commercially. The same things that attracted women to want to style their hair like Diana, dress like Diana, do makeup like Diana also were prone to jump on the bandwagon of the causes that Diana worked to bring attention to. It was OK to be bulimic and seek help. AIDs patients were not to be feared and land mines destroyed far too many lives.
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  #204  
Old 09-24-2016, 01:21 AM
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Well I'm not sure if its quite the same. I think that Diana's fashion choice were popular because she was young pretty and royal and she had mostly a good eye fro dressing well. and in the very early 80s the Laura Ashley "simple country girl" with the long skirts and the short simple hairdo, were popular..and Diana wore them all,
I wore some of them too... so she was wearing clothes that a lot of Sloaney girls and ordinary girls were wearing... She wasn't wearing "high fashion".

But her causes l Feel that she put them forward well because of other qualities. She was compassionate and warm, and if she said that there was nothing to be feared In touchng someone with AIDS people tended to feel that she was a decent good hearted young woman and very likely she was right. And with Bulimia, it was felt that she had the guts to admit she had it, so it was OK for them to admit it and seek help - when no other royal had done anything like that before.
So I don't think that a royal's fashion choices being followed is quite the same as their "causes" becoming more popular..
But IMO it is perfectly harmless. If people dress their babies like George or Charlotte because they see the clothes on them and think "Oh my baby would look good in that" that's fine. If they do so just thnking "oh these are clothes that the RF wear, even if I don't like them.." well that hardly matters a lot, does it..
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  #205  
Old 04-30-2018, 12:45 AM
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Will the world ever have a globally popular loved princess like Diana again?

Without being bias, I believe Diana is a modern day princess everyone knows even to this day. My own father loved her and sadden by her death. I believe that she was one of the last royal princess to capture the world's imagination and captivate the world. Will we ever have another princess in the world like Diana again or that was for its time?
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  #206  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:14 AM
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What an interesting topic, Kitty1224! I think in the early 80s the world was still fairly naive and could suspend disbelief long enough to get caught up in the fairy tale of the virginal princess and charming prince who lived happily ever after. But that naivete died with Charles' and Diana's separation and divorce.

If anyone can revive the fairy tale it's Meghan, but I don't feel she is someone who all ages will relate to. That was a huge part of Diana's charm was that she related to everyone, young and old across all boundaries. The old ladies at the beauty parlor through to the punk rockers in London all knew of her and the great majority liked if not loved her. I don't see Meghan having the charisma to appeal to the vast majority of people like Diana did.
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  #207  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Without being bias, I believe Diana is a modern day princess everyone knows even to this day. My own father loved her and sadden by her death. I believe that she was one of the last royal princess to capture the world's imagination and captivate the world. Will we ever have another princess in the world like Diana again or that was for its time?
I think you are mistaken regarding Diana's universality. However, without a doubt, I believe Meghan is going to be on a par (and then some) to Diana. It's not quite the same because Diana was inhabiting a fairy-tale projection, one day to be a Queen (lots of fantasy surrounded her, she was all about image, less substance). Meghan (while still with the stuff of projection around her) is not going to be a Queen but she has it in her to be quite exceptional in the role she is taking on (image combined with substance). I have no doubt. She is already world famous.
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  #208  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:48 AM
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Yes, Meghan will be famous. However, the world of Diana was the the 1980's and 1990's, a place of print media and TV, of glossy magazines that women all over the Western world would buy every week, to pore over the stories of Diana and her children and her fashions and events.

Yes, there was a bit of criticism from British journalists in the last year of Diana's life that dented her popularity, but that was forgotten when she died and there was this tremendous outpouring of grief at her death.

It wasn't an Internet world however. I find it very difficult to imagine that sort of magic on a global scale can be focused on one person today, however loved they become by the general public, when behind every computer keyboard there is a potential critic.

On Tumblr and on Twitter masses of people are ready to tear into royals and celebrities' hair, clothes, motivations, work, demeanour, past life, present lifestyle etc. For every one person praising there can be ten ready to stick knives in, metaphorically speaking, of course!

That's why I don't think it such starry eyed enchantment as Diana provoked in her lifetime will ever happen in that way again. It's a much more cynical place in lots of ways and that world has gone for ever.
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  #209  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes, Meghan will be famous. However, the world of Diana was the the 1980's and 1990's, a place of print media and TV, of glossy magazines that women all over the Western world would buy every week, to pore over the stories of Diana and her children and her fashions and events.

Yes, there was a bit of criticism from British journalists in the last year of Diana's life that dented her popularity, but that was forgotten when she died and there was this tremendous outpouring of grief at her death.

It wasn't an Internet world however. I find it very difficult to imagine that sort of magic on a global scale can be focused on one person today, however loved they become by the general public, when behind every computer keyboard there is a potential critic.

(...)

That's why I don't think it such starry eyed enchantment as Diana provoked in her lifetime will ever happen in that way again. It's a much more cynical place in lots of ways and that world has gone for ever.
Not from my reading. Maybe over time since her death there has been a glossing over of Diana's critics during her life but Diana did not have a uniformly good press at all. Far from 'a bit' of negativity from the Britsh press: at one point Diana was being threatened with arrest for stalking a married man. There was a reason why Diana did the Morton Book, and the Panorama Interview. Diana was in trouble lots. It's why she was often in cahoots with the press to get good press by giving them photo-ops, playing to the drama. Seems to me it was a very cynical time back then. After all, that's what tabloids feed on: build up 'the mark' then tear them down. It's an old game.

The 'enchanted' period likely lasted a handful of years in the 80's but the gloss was wearing off by the mid to late 80's when it became clear there was something 'off' with the royal princesses: Diana and Fergie poking Ascot goers with their umbrellas; acting like goofy teenagers at a photo op on the ski slopes, reducing Charles to a school master trying to bring order. (Imagine how well any of that would go over today with Kate and/or Meghan). I could go on. There were the tapes, and the rumors flying about the Princess of Wales having amours. Read the press clippings.

Methinks the history that is there for anyone to read simply does not support that time as being 'enchanted' or that Diana provoked 'starry eyed enchantment'. JMO.
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  #210  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post

Methinks the history that is there for anyone to read simply does not support that time as being 'enchanted' or that Diana provoked 'starry eyed enchantment'. JMO.
Take it from a contemporary of Diana's, it was a very enchanted time, made so by Diana and her persona, flawed as it was. Diana and Diana alone, no one cared about Charles who was old well before his time and totally out of touch with the common man. And therein lies the rub, Charles and his massive ego couldn't take his wife being a superstar and taking the spotlight away from him.

No, I don't think there will ever be another Diana. As Stevie Nicks wrote in the song 'Rhiannon': Once in a million years a woman like her rises.
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  #211  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:44 AM
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I don't need to read 'the Press clippings', Lady Nimue. I lived through the Diana years, mostly in Britain, from 1981 until 1997. I was an adult. And can remember quite clearly how many ordinary people, not Journalists, felt about Diana through that decade and a half. There are many many people cherish her memory today, twenty one years after her death.
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  #212  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I don't need to read 'the Press clippings', Lady Nimue. I lived through the Diana years, mostly in Britain, from 1981 until 1997. I was an adult. And can remember quite clearly how many ordinary people, not Journalists, felt about Diana through that decade and a half. There are many many people cherish her memory today, twenty one years after her death.
Yes, it was a case of you had to be there. I truly feel sorry for the people who have bought into the revisionist history that Charles and his friends would love you to believe. They should be green with envy that they weren't part of the magic as it happened.
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  #213  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:05 AM
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Whoever that person - or couple - might be, it is overwhelmingly likely that that person will come from either the British or the Spanish royal families. They are the only ones supported by a world-language, enabling their followers to follow them effortlessly on a day to day basis.

So I think a relevant question is: Will Kate or Meghan, alternatively teams Kate & William or Meghan & Harry, reach a similar level and have a similar popular impact as Diana?

At present my money would be on team Harry & Meghan. Mainly for the glamour effect, but certainly also for the rapport Harry in particular seems to have with the public. He's a natural. And he is marrying someone who is very extrovert.
There is nothing wrong with team Kate and William. They are however IMO more introvert, more private. IMO that will ensure that will have a fairly level popular rating all their lives - and that's not a bad thing, mind you! The keyword here being stability.

Please forgive me for being tactless and cynical. Diana, like say Abraham Lincoln, Mahatma Ghandi and Kennedy before her, made the PR-masterstroke of dying while they were pretty much on top. That made them forever great.
Had they lived on, they may not have had the very high status they have today.
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  #214  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:13 AM
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Yes, there is always a special aura about famous figures who were suddenly, and violently 'taken too soon'. Iconic status sometimes happens with the very very old as well, though.
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  #215  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes, Meghan will be famous. However, the world of Diana was the the 1980's and 1990's, a place of print media and TV, of glossy magazines that women all over the Western world would buy every week, to pore over the stories of Diana and her children and her fashions and events.

Yes, there was a bit of criticism from British journalists in the last year of Diana's life that dented her popularity, but that was forgotten when she died and there was this tremendous outpouring of grief at her death.

It wasn't an Internet world however. I find it very difficult to imagine that sort of magic on a global scale can be focused on one person today, however loved they become by the general public, when behind every computer keyboard there is a potential critic.

On Tumblr and on Twitter masses of people are ready to tear into royals and celebrities' hair, clothes, motivations, work, demeanour, past life, present lifestyle etc. For every one person praising there can be ten ready to stick knives in, metaphorically speaking, of course!

That's why I don't think it such starry eyed enchantment as Diana provoked in her lifetime will ever happen in that way again. It's a much more cynical place in lots of ways and that world has gone for ever.
“r. I find it very difficult to imagine that sort of magic on a global scale can be focused on one person today, however loved they become by the general public”. Yeah that’s true but it can happen still. Just takes that one special person.

Also remember it was Diana everyone wanted to see and meet. Heads of states, foreign leaders, ect... I guess she really was great with diplomacy as well.
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  #216  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
What an interesting topic, Kitty1224! I think in the early 80s the world was still fairly naive and could suspend disbelief long enough to get caught up in the fairy tale of the virginal princess and charming prince who lived happily ever after. But that naivete died with Charles' and Diana's separation and divorce.

If anyone can revive the fairy tale it's Meghan, but I don't feel she is someone who all ages will relate to. That was a huge part of Diana's charm was that she related to everyone, young and old across all boundaries. The old ladies at the beauty parlor through to the punk rockers in London all knew of her and the great majority liked if not loved her. I don't see Meghan having the charisma to appeal to the vast majority of people like Diana did.
Sorry but Meghan doesn’t fill that role and won’t be able to in my opinion. There isn’t even as much excitement for their “wedding”.
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  #217  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:33 AM
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I don't think every major network in the US (and the same here in Australia, incidentally) would be sending large media contingents to a wedding no-one is interested in or excited about.

The Charles/Diana wedding was the biggest wedding in my lifetime of Royal watching and it was an enchanted day. However, as I've said, it was a different world in the 1980s.
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  #218  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:46 AM
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Diana had a number of huge advantages that another royal may not have today.

By the late 80's which I will consider her zenith, she was a member of the British royal family, which was basically the only royal family, apart from the princely family of Monaco, that the international press followed. That in a time when the international press was almost totally dominated by papers, news agencies and networks, who spread the word so to speak, in English.
That in a world that to a far larger extent than today was dominated by the English language, in regards to global news.
So the Spanish royal family may have got a good coverage in the Spanish speaking world, but very little mentioning elsewhere.
There was no Internet. That means there were next to no alternatives at all to the international press - which as mentioned before was totally dominated by English speaking news outlets. So whatever happened in other royal families, got very little and very irregular coverage. There was very little opportunity for someone in say Argentina to follow the Swedish royals.
So Internet has changed the whole scene dramatically.

Apart from that, Diana had very little competition in her time.
In a world that was much less international minded and global, most royal families focused mainly on domestic matters and as such was mainly covered by their own countries and only relevant to at best their neighboring countries.
That began to change after 2000, where the current generation of CP-couples (some have now become regent-couples) have begun to enter the world stage and begun to take up international issues and as such got an increasing international coverage.


In another way Diana had very little competition as well. The princesses, again apart of Monaco, who could conceivably have competed with her at that time, where mainly either older than her or in their teens.

On top of that Diana had an unquestionable and instinctive flair for PR. In an age where media-advisors and media-training was almost unheard of among most royal families.

Not to mention that she was blessed with great people-skills. But that's outside the scope of this post.
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  #219  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:51 AM
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that is true Muhler.. Some of the added excitement was due to charles' position as future King and there hadn't been a big royal wedding, except Ann'es in a long time. it was a huge event..
But some of it was down to Diana. Whethter you like her or not, she had a special magic and people like that don't come along that often. Meghan has her fans, (I'm not one of them) but I don't think she has that sort of special magic. I don't think she will bring the glamour to the monarchy that Diana did... (nor will Kate).
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  #220  
Old 04-30-2018, 04:12 AM
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Not the topic of the thread but a quick rejoinder....

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Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
Take it from a contemporary of Diana's, it was a very enchanted time, made so by Diana and her persona, flawed as it was. Diana and Diana alone, no one cared about Charles who was old well before his time and totally out of touch with the common man. And therein lies the rub, Charles and his massive ego couldn't take his wife being a superstar and taking the spotlight away from him.
You misunderstand: I was alive just not paying close attention. I did see it all through my mother's eyes who would have debated whether it was an enchanted time. (My obsession as I grew up was with the glorious Queen Sylvia of Sweden: now there was a lady worth emulating imo). Diana left me unimpressed as a child. As best as I recall the tenure of Diana was unsavory as you yourself demonstrate with the diss of Charles. Not pleasant. It was something Diana gleefully stoked, even I saw that as a child, didn't have to have my mother point it out tho she did (as an illustrative lesson to me).

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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I don't need to read 'the Press clippings', Lady Nimue. I lived through the Diana years, mostly in Britain, from 1981 until 1997. I was an adult. And can remember quite clearly how many ordinary people, not Journalists, felt about Diana through that decade and a half. There are many many people cherish her memory today, twenty one years after her death.
I trust you were a fan and saw her through a gauzy glow. I would suggest your memory is faulty, however, regarding the atmosphere back then which approached the unpleasantness of a throbbing toothache. She demeaned the BRF. Made them a laughingstock. It was one drama after another starting in the mid to late 80's. Some of it wild and weird stuff (Ascot umbrella poking, would you call that 'enchanting?) It's like there are two parallel universes.

In spades anyone would be able to surpass Diana given the higher standards of behavior demanded of royals. (Only wish it included politicians!) BTW I think the higher standards are in place as a reaction to what Diana engaged in: for example it is expected that the wife of a royal not upstage the royal spouse. Diana-effect.

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Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
Yes, it was a case of you had to be there. I truly feel sorry for the people who have bought into the revisionist history that Charles and his friends would love you to believe. They should be green with envy that they weren't part of the magic as it happened.
I was there and I wasn't impressed. Her fashion in the 80's was wince-able. It shifted later but she was so full of herself that she was hard to watch (from a child's perspective). Have no idea how 'Charles and his friends' come into this.

Trust me, no one should be 'green with envy' at having missed the toxic hysteria and toxic atmosphere generated by Diana as she purposely set about to polarize the public against Charles and the institution she married into. It was pretty grim watching it all unfold. Nothing 'enchanting' about any of it imo.

I don't think we will ever have that kind of angst played out 'globally' again, or I sincerely hope not. It was an embarrassment when it took place, it's an embarrassment when one watches all the old video clips.

Diana's 'gift' was her charisma which had everything to do with how she 'played' her energy. Rock stars do what she was doing. It's not unique. Just saying. Give me honest folk doing good work anytime. Hopefully there will never be another single person who is allowed by the tabloids (she was really a creature of the tabloids) to play the public so shamelessly. Not healthy. My 2 cents.
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