Balmoral Castle

[Iluvbertie]

That 'traditional lunch' only came about when the Queen moved Christmas to Sandringham in the 1980s. Prior to that they were all at Windsor for Christmas so no need for an additional lunch.

I am not so sure he will keep up that idea at all if the reports are true that he wants a smaller royal family he knows that any sight of of a large family gathering will go against that concept.

 

[wyevale]

any sight of of a large family gathering will go against that concept.

I think everyone can make the distinction between a 'core' family and the 'extended' one, since we ALL have our own version !

 

[Osipi]

Exactly. For me, I see a Christmas gathering of "extended" family in the reign of Charles III as being Anne, Andrew and Edward and their families rather than the siblings heading to Sandringham or Windsor.

Whether or not the Kents, Gloucesters, Chattos and Linleys and such will be included is up in the air for me as I really don't know how close Charles is with them. These people have their own extended families by now. As their own families grow, their relationship to the monarch gets further and further away. Take Miss Maud Windsor for example (schoolmate of George). Her grandfather, Prince Michael of Kent is a grandson of George V making Maud a great great granddaughter of a monarch. That is extending the extended family quite a bit if you ask me. As time passes, those that actually have close relations to the monarch will thin out. This is what the Queen's longevity has done to extended family.

Charles' immediate family will the be smaller group to gather for the actual Christmas Eve dinner and the walk to church.

 

[Skippyboo]

Charles is actually very close to Margaret’s children. So I would expect the Snowdons and Chattos to keep going for Christmas like they do now which is every other year. At least until they get grandkids of their own

Also don’t lump William and Harry together. William and his family have visited the Queen in Balmoral every year since he got married. William also went up there especially for the Ghillies Ball this year. Harry isn’t the one that goes that much.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I think everyone can make the distinction between a 'core' family and the 'extended' one, since we ALL have our own version !

Exactly! The Family Christmas luncheon is really just a family reunion, like many families have. It is ignorant to equate it to anything else.

 

[Lady Nimue]

It looks like Christmas at Balmoral is a lost cause, unless Charles chucks it all and just goes up there.

Windsor became too small for the entire family - Gloucester's, Kent's etc and so she decided to have a smaller gathering at Sandringham - with just her own immediate family - mother, sister, children and sister's children and then grandchildren.

Wait, Iluvbertie..........Windsor was too small, so she decides to have an even smaller gathering at Sandringham....? Have you mis-posted what you meant to say? I think so. Windsor became too small so she switched to Sandringham, which then included a 'traditional lunch' and a walk to church, and all this since the 1980's....so what did the public 'see' of the royal family at Christmas prior to the 1980's?

Charles may very well decide that to open up the big house for a day or so when he prefers Scotland for New Year is too much but still want a family gathering somewhere - hence my suggestion of Windsor. I don't see either William or Harry wanting to go to Scotland in winter (they hardly ever go there in summer) so Windsor makes a good compromise venue.

So what would the public 'see' if Charles makes Windsor the Christmas venue?

That 'traditional lunch' only came about when the Queen moved Christmas to Sandringham in the 1980s. Prior to that they were all at Windsor for Christmas so no need for an additional lunch.

So if Charles makes Windsor the venue there will be no lunch, no arrival at a lunch and all of that. No walk to church, too? Am I misunderstanding something?

I am not so sure he will keep up that idea at all if the reports are true that he wants a smaller royal family he knows that any sight of of a large family gathering will go against that concept.

I understand what you are suggesting: that if Charles wants a smaller royal family, creating the impression of a large gathering goes against 'the optics' (curious phrase used here) of the impression Charles will be wanting to maintain. Fact is, most everyone seems to be scattering anyway, so the diminution is very organic.

In terms of distance, is Windsor the closest for everyone? Is Sandringham a bit of a drive for most people? And Balmoral is just out of the question? Is Balmoral a full day's train trip?

On the off chance Charles makes Balmoral the Christmas venue, what would the public then 'see'? Anything? A walk to the Kirche in a snowstorm? ? I would guess most guests would be overnight, too, and maybe it would be more discreet.

 

[Curryong]

Message Deleted.

The BRF traditionally spent their Christmases at Sandringham in George V and VI day. That had been so for over 30 years. They didn't have the Xmas walk in front of adoring members of the public in those earlier days though.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-401396/Queen-moves-Christmas-festivities.html
But
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/ex...otman-on-Christmas-with-the-Royal-family.html

There is no train to Balmoral. There is a train to Inverness (including a sleeper) then journey by car or alternatively, a flight to Inverness then a car drive, for most of the guests. It is a fairly isolated estate.

 

[Skippyboo]

The Royal Family website says sixties were at Windsor then back to Sandringham in 1988

https://www.royal.uk/queen-christmas

Daily Mail being wrong. How not surprising.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Charles is actually very close to Margaret’s children. So I would expect the Snowdons and Chattos to keep going for Christmas like they do now which is every other year. At least until they get grandkids of their own

Also don’t lump William and Harry together. William and his family have visited the Queen in Balmoral every year since he got married. William also went up there especially for the Ghillies Ball this year. Harry isn’t the one that goes that much.

I didn't say they didn't go to Balmoral. I said they 'hardly' go. That implies that they do go but not for long and not often. A weekend or two at most whereas the Queen and Charles are there for months at a time. The young princes also don't go in winter whereas Charles is there from Christmas to well into the January.

 

[tommy100]

Balmoral is very difficult to reach for members of the RF who wish to visit other "sides" of their family. It would work if Charles, Camilla, William Kate and Harry all went. Probably Camilla's Kate's and Meghan's families too as they could all stay up their for a few days with no need to travel anywhere. Otherwise Balmoral just makes it harder for everyone to go elsewhere. Also I imagine at Balmoral it is more likely they could get "snowed it" posing logistical difficulties. Sandringham gets enough snow.

As I understand it, Christmas' were spent at Windsor in the Queen's reign until the late 1980s when some restoration, rewiring work etc was done and so the whole family (Kents, Gloucesters etc) couldn't come so Sandringham was chosen as the new Christmas venue. At the same time the Queen starts hosting those royals not now invited for Christmas Day to a Christmas lunch at BP so they can still all spend time together before the holidays. The work at Windsor goes on for a long time as understandable for such a large Castle and leads to the 92 fire, so more work is needed and so Christmas continues at Sandringham becoming the now "traditional" venue.

 

[royal-blue]

How much time do each of the royals generally spend at Balmoral in the summer? Is it generally just the Queen and Philip who stay the full two months?

Likewise, how long do each of the royals stay st Sandringham at Christmas? I hope they don't all just abandon the Queen after a couple of days.

 

[Lady Nimue]

Likewise, how long do each of the royals stay st Sandringham at Christmas? I hope they don't all just abandon the Queen after a couple of days.

I've read that most everyone leaves except Edward and Sophie. Their family stays through the holidays (New Year). Can anyone confirm that?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Charles spends most of August and September at Birkhall and Camilla spends a few weeks there with him.

The Queen and Philip are there throughout - although Philip does sometimes come south to visit family and friends.

The others visit for varying lengths of time - William and Harry for the odd weekend, Andrew and the girls for a weekend before Philip arrives as they usually have Sarah with them, the Wessexes usually for a couple of weeks and then to somewhere summery for the rest of the school holidays, Anne usually for a week or so but not always with her children. So largely the Queen and Philip for the two months and like many people whose children have grown and left home often just the two of them.

Sandringham - again the Queen and Philip for most of December, all of January and the first week or so of February. William and Kate have their country home there so they are around a lot. Charles and Camilla about 20 hours, Andrew and the girls a little longer (only because they are lower in the line of succession and so have to arrive before Charles), Edward etc stay for longer and Anne it depends on what her kids are doing but they usually leave on Christmas Day or Boxing Day to go to the other side of the family so again - for most of the time there it is just the two of them with the occasional visit from children or grandchildren.

 

[Lady Nimue]

Thank you, Iluvberie, for all the insight.

Charles spends most of August and September at Birkhall and Camilla spends a few weeks there with him.

The Queen and Philip are there throughout - although Philip does sometimes come south to visit family and friends.

The others visit for varying lengths of time - William and Harry for the odd weekend, Andrew and the girls for a weekend before Philip arrives as they usually have Sarah with them, the Wessexes usually for a couple of weeks and then to somewhere summery for the rest of the school holidays, Anne usually for a week or so but not always with her children. So largely the Queen and Philip for the two months and like many people whose children have grown and left home often just the two of them.

Sandringham - again the Queen and Philip for most of December, all of January and the first week or so of February. William and Kate have their country home there so they are around a lot. Charles and Camilla about 20 hours, Andrew and the girls a little longer (only because they are lower in the line of succession and so have to arrive before Charles), Edward etc stay for longer and Anne it depends on what her kids are doing but they usually leave on Christmas Day or Boxing Day to go to the other side of the family so again - for most of the time there it is just the two of them with the occasional visit from children or grandchildren.

Wow! 20 hours for Charles and Camilla. Is there some reason Charles doesn't much like Sandringham? Bad memories?

Also, didn't know that others 'have to' arrive before Charles. Is that why Charles arrives so late? To allow others more flexibility?

 

[Osipi]

Wow! 20 hours for Charles and Camilla. Is there some reason Charles doesn't much like Sandringham? Bad memories?

Also, didn't know that others 'have to' arrive before Charles. Is that why Charles arrives so late? To allow others more flexibility?

I think its basically that Charles has other places he prefers to be at like Highgrove or Birkhall. Charles is also the kind of guy that always has things going on he's got to do so its not surprising that he'd be one of the last to arrive at Sandringham. Camilla always leaves after lunch on Christmas Day to head to her own family while Charles retreats to Birkhall.

As far as arriving in the order of precedence, I think that's applicable to the formal Christmas Eve dinner and going into dinner and being seated. No connection as to when and how the members of the family actually arrive to stay at Sandringham. Some of the family don't even stay at the "Big House".

 

[Iluvbertie]

The order of arrival at Sandringham is determined by reverse order of line of succession so that the staff delivering stuff to rooms can finish one family before the next one arrives - so the Chatto's are in their room/s and the staff are then free to assist the Snowdon's and then the Philip's, Wessexes, Yorks and finally the Wales'. Of course Harry only stays at the big house now when William and Kate aren't at Anmer preferring their less formal approach to being at the big house although he does go across there for the Christmas Eve events - dinner and present opening - and the morning events such as the two church services, lunch and the Christmas message.

The first to arrive - the Chattos - do so about 2.00 p.m. while Charles and Camilla are scheduled for about 6.00. They then both leave after the Queen's speech at 3.00 p.m. - Camilla to go to her own children and grandchildren while Charles heads to the quiet of Birkhall for about a week on his own with no family. Camilla usually joins him, weather permitting, for New Year.

Everything around the Queen is run like clockwork and this is no different with specified arrival times.

 

[irish_royalist]

The BRF traditionally spent their Christmases at Sandringham in George V and VI day. That had been so for over 30 years. They didn't have the Xmas walk in front of adoring members of the public in those earlier days though.

Queen moves Christmas festivities | Daily Mail Online
But
Queen's ex-footman on Christmas with the Royal family - Telegraph

There is no train to Balmoral. There is a train to Inverness (including a sleeper) then journey by car or alternatively, a flight to Inverness then a car drive, for most of the guests. It is a fairly isolated estate.

I think the Royals normally fly into Aberdeen airport, if arriving by air, rather than Inverness. My sister lives near Aberdeen and has seen various members of the Royal Family at the airport.

 

[M. Payton]

I think of all the places that the BRF owns or has access to, this is the one place I would stay at and never leave, up in the mountains, with tons of trees and wild life and a home made of stone with history. Just a gorgeous place and sad that the younger generation takes no interest in it for future generations to use.

 

[Lady Nimue]

I think of all the places that the BRF owns or has access to, this is the one place I would stay at and never leave, up in the mountains, with tons of trees and wild life and a home made of stone with history. Just a gorgeous place and sad that the younger generation takes no interest in it for future generations to use.

It does not look inviting to me. I am not a fan of big drafty houses, and especially those big stone piles. Give me a cozy cottage any day. I can understand the lack of interest by the younger set. If I were in the situation to have access, I'd likely build a new lodge, much smaller, with all the modern amenities. Just me.

 

[eya]

Let it snow! Let it snow!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1661769807239942

 

[Lady Nimue]

What a difference two months make! All the snow is gone! Spring is springing!

 

[Osipi]

Its absolutely beautiful. Of all the places that is used by the House of Windsor, Balmoral is my second favorite estate. My favorite though is the Castle of Mey which was the Queen Mother's.

 

[Missjersey]

Gorgeous photo

 

[Gawin]

No wonder the Queen loves it!

 

[democratnmonocole]

When Charles becomes King, I don't see him using Balmoral. He should let his older sister, Anne use it. She is popular among Scots than the rest of them!!!

Charles downsizing the British monarchy won't do well for the family. The junior royals should be embraced, such as the Princesses of York.

Balmoral Castle will probably be used by Charles and Camilla once in a while. I see him using Birkhall as it is right now as his Scottish holiday as King.

There's an article floating around the Internet from several years ago that Charles will probably give Balmoral to the Scottish nation as a museum/historic site and retain Birkhall as his personal residence when in Scotland. I also don't see his siblings and their children (except perhaps for the Princess Royal and her children) being particularly close to Charles once he ascends the throne.

 

[jacqui24]

Can someone tell me why Charles wouldn't use Balmoral? Does he not like it for some reason? He spends quite a bit of time in Scotland. He moved into Birkhall once the Queen Mother passed away as that was hers. But I don't see why Charles wouldn't move into Balmoral once he is King.

 

[Osipi]

Its quite possible that Charles is quite settled and content living at Birkhall. Like the Queen Mum did with the Castle of Mey, putting Balmoral into a trust owned by the Scottish nation.

This not only returns historic lands and the castle to the people of Scotland, but it also eliminates the personal responsibility for the upkeep of the Balmoral estate for Charles. Charles, as I know him to be, is big on preserving historic sites and keeping traditions alive.

He's never been the one to go big or go home or even have home be the biggest. The main draw now for the younger generation to visit Balmoral has always been the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh and I do think things are going to be quite different once they are no longer among us.

 

[democratnmonocole]

This article from the Express explains why: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/64624/Charles-to-give-Balmoral-to-Scottish-nation

The royals are very cheap for being so wealthy. Yes, I know the whole arrangement of royal finances but still. Charles earned 22.5 million quid last year and will have a much larger income when he inherits the Duchy of Lancaster. He can't pay a few million out of pocket to keep up Balmoral? Gimme a break. They get discounts on shopping, they have billionaire friends who allow them to use their homes like their own (even if it's inconvenient for them) and he doesn't want to pay three million a year to maintain property? Though also, he has Birkhall practically next to Balmoral and it's a 53,000 acre estate in its own right, so it makes some sense.

 

[sndral]

My problem w/ this scheme, if in fact it exists, is that it seems rather short sighted of Charles. It may be his personal desire based on his and Camilla's preference for the smaller Birkhall - but who knows what the future will bring, does he really want to forever give Balmoral away - depriving Prince George and his children of part of their heritage? What of when William is King perhaps he will want to host his brother and favorite cousins and their families at Balmoral, after all William and Catherine attended college in Scotland. Is Charles' goal to leave no personal real property to his heir and descendants?

Didn't George VI have to buy back Edward VIII's interest in Balmoral at great personal expense to avoid having the estate leave the main line of the Royals? What has changed since then that makes jettisoning the estate a good idea now?


I suppose since Balmoral is the Queen's personal estate she could leave Charles a life estate in Balmoral w/ the remainder to William when he becomes King thereby depriving Charles of the ability to give the estate away.

 

[Denville]

I doubt if Charles would give up Balmoral. h e likes Scotland..a nd I know of no evidence that he wotn be friendly with his siblings in later years. They may not always get on, and he may disapprove of some things they've done but tey are his family..