Windsor/Mountbatten-Windsor: Name of Royal House and Surname

[HRH Kimetha]

I felt that this would be an interesting topic.

If the last name of Prince Charles is Windsor, why does William and Harry use the name Wales instead of the correct surname?

As I understood it, Queen Elizabeth changed the old German surname to the English surname back in the 50's (?) to reflect a "British" sounding Monarch over a Germanic surname that also representing the losing side in WWII. Does anyone have any other information on this subject. Is this true? If not, what is the story on the Windsor name?

As I see it, if the true surname is Windsor then Windsor should be used instead of Wales, which only means (to me, anyway) that they are Prince Harry of Wales and Prince William of Wales only for royal purposes and Prince William Windsor of Wales etc.

Does Princesses Beatrice & Eugenie go by York?

THis would be so confusing to genealogists who are tracing ancestors by using the surname.

What is the point of the surname if the parties aren't going to use it?

 

[Sister Morphine]

Mountbatten-Windsor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Both William & Harry and Beatrice & Eugenie use their fathers' titles (Wales and York) as surnames occasionally [such as when they were in school, they were William Wales and Beatrice York, for example], although their actual surnames would be Mountbatten-Windsor, as that is their fathers' surname.

An Order-in-Council was issued in 1960, which stated the surname of male-line descendants of the Duke and the Queen who are not Royal Highnesses or Prince or Princess was to be Mountbatten-Windsor. This was to address the Duke's complaint that he was the only father in the country unable to pass his name to his children. In practice, however, the Queen and the Duke's children have all used Mountbatten-Windsor as the surname they prefer for themselves and their male-line children.

Windsor became the name of the Royal house not in the 50s, but during WWI because of unpopular sentiment toward the Germans at the time (obviously).

In 1917, during World War I, anti-German feeling among the people resulted in the Royal Family exchanging use of all of their German titles and house names for English-sounding versions........Thus, the name Wettin was replaced with Windsor, which also became the name of the Royal House through an Order-in-Council of King George V.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I felt that this would be an interesting topic.

If the last name of Prince Charles is Windsor, why does William and Harry use the name Wales instead of the correct surname?

Wales designates that William and Harry are the children of the Prince of Wales - it really isn't their surname but indicates to which branch of the royal family they belong.

As I understood it, Queen Elizabeth changed the old German surname to the English surname back in the 50's (?) to reflect a "British" sounding Monarch over a Germanic surname that also representing the losing side in WWII. Does anyone have any other information on this subject. Is this true? If not, what is the story on the Windsor name?

The change of names came about during World War I and involved not only the Royal Family but other families as well such as the Battenburgs who changed their name to Mountbatten. (Philip is a descendent of the Prince of Battenburg who did this and thus the name Mountbatten is linked with Windsor).

As I see it, if the true surname is Windsor then Windsor should be used instead of Wales, which only means (to me, anyway) that they are Prince Harry of Wales and Prince William of Wales only for royal purposes and Prince William Windsor of Wales etc.

The RF actually don't use a surname as such. The surname officially for the grandchildren, if needed, would be Mountbatten-Windsor not Windsor as Philip's surname at the time of the marriage was Mountbatten and the Queen added that to the Windsor name for those of her descendents who actually need a surname.

Does Princesses Beatrice & Eugenie go by York?

Yes - think about poor old Queen Victoria who had a number of granddaughters names after her - by saying 'of Wales' etc she knew which one was being referred to.

THis would be so confusing to genealogists who are tracing ancestors by using the surname.

If a geneologist was at the point of tracing ancestors and they were getting to that level of royalty then the 'of' is just as relevant, if not of more use in the situation of multiple grandchildren through sons having the same surname.

What is the point of the surname if the parties aren't going to use it?

For most royals they never use them anyway as they use their title not their surname.

 

[magnik]

Members of the Royal Family can be known both by the name of their Royal house, and by a surname, which are not always the same. And often they do not use a surname at all.

The Royal Family > Titles and succession > Royal Family name

http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page5657.asp

 

[SIDOROFF]

Of course he is. The House of Windsor is intended to continue in perpetuity and not change its name when the next female heir comes along. In many countries the House doesn't change when a female monarch is married; it depends on the country. The bloodline is the same whether the name changes or doesn't change.

It is the house name that will stay the same, not the house.

 

[SIDOROFF]

The name of our dynasty is Windsor but not Mountbatten.

It has no reason to be Mountbatten, it should be Oldenburg.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

It has no reason to be Mountbatten, it should be Oldenburg.

I realise Sidoroff has been banned and I understand that seeing how much completely wrong information came his/her way in an aggressive manner, but I've been wondering for years why "Oldenburg"? I have heard that prince Philip considered to name himself "Oldhouse" from "Oldenburg, but why Oldenburg at all? He isn't related to the Oldenburgs, AFAIK?

 

[BeatrixFan]

I always thought it should be Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg. Or just Glucksburg.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I always thought it should be Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg. Or just Glucksburg.

Yes, that's the family he is from. He is not an Oldenburg. or are the Oldenburgs SHSG's, too? Where's Warren when one needs him?

 

[BeatrixFan]

Can you imagine if they had their original surnames and put them together? The House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg. I like it actually!

 

[Stefan]

Yes, that's the family he is from. He is not an Oldenburg. or are the Oldenburgs SHSG's, too? Where's Warren when one needs him?

The House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg is a junior line of the House of Oldenburg.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

The House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg is a junior line of the House of Oldenburg.

I just found out, too, thank you. The Gottorps are a line of the Oldenburgs as well, interesting!

 

[Russophile]

Can you imagine if they had their original surnames and put them together? The House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg. I like it actually!

What do you do when you write a check?

 

[LadyCat]

Weren't the surnames originally "place" names( Battenberg, Hesse, etc.)? And with the current surname "Windsor" didn't Georgie just continue the trend?


Cat

 

[Russophile]

Weren't the surnames originally "place" names( Battenberg, Hesse, etc.)? And with the current surname "Windsor" didn't Georgie just continue the trend?


Cat

Yes, but George changed it because it sounded too German and Windsor sounded more English during the 1st WW.

 

[serenissima]

Yes, but George changed it because it sounded too German and Windsor sounded more English during the 1st WW.

Oh, and the Gotha bombers were attacking our land but the king's family name had Gotha in it !

 

[LadyCat]

Yes, but George changed it because it sounded too German and Windsor sounded more English during the 1st WW.

This is true. I guess my point was that, with the exception of the Bernodottes, most reigning houses don't really have surnames per se.

Cat

 

[Leslie2006]

I just found out, too, thank you. The Gottorps are a line of the Oldenburgs as well, interesting!

and Gottorp is part of the Romanov line - Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov. The House of Romanov is also a branch of the Oldenburg House.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Weren't the surnames originally "place" names( Battenberg, Hesse, etc.)? And with the current surname "Windsor" didn't Georgie just continue the trend?


Cat

Interesting that "Coburg" actually is a town in Bavaria, not Saxony... And Sonderburg is in Denmark but Glücksburg in Germany. But that has historic reasons, of course.

 

[prince nathan]

Windsor/Mountbatten - Name of Royal House

I was wondering might the House of Windsor be changed to the House of Mountbatten when Charles becomes King. There is precedence in history. When Queen Victoria reigned, it was over the House of Hanover, her 'maiden' name, But when her son, Edward VII, succeeded her it was over the house of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha - his fathers family name.
On a side-note I think it would be a nice tribute to the Prince Philip.

 

[cmkrcwi]

I think he'll probably change it to Mountbatten-Windsor. I believe all the Queen's children used that as their surname on their marriage certificates even though that name is only supposed to be for nonroyal descendants of Her Majesty and royal descendants (those entitled to the style and title of HRH Prince or Princess and of course, the Monarch) would continue to be known as The House of Windsor.

 

[Menarue]

It is a strange thing that the Prince Philip´s name was not Mountbatten, it was his mother´s name which he adopted when he had to choose a surname. Then again Windsor was not the name of the royal family either until they took the name of their castle. A very nice name too, very English.

 

[EmpressRouge]

It is a strange thing that the Prince Philip´s name was not Mountbatten, it was his mother´s name which he adopted when he had to choose a surname. Then again Windsor was not the name of the royal family either until they took the name of their castle. A very nice name too, very English.

It was technically his mother's family's name. Princess Alice had already married into the Greek Royal Family (1903) by the time the Battenbergs changed it (1917), so she was never a Mountbatten. Perhaps Charles should change the name of the house to Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg-Windsor . Imagine the confusion during roll call if the future Danish, Norwegian, Greek, and British royals all attended the same school/class under their House name.

 

[Elspeth]

I think the name Windsor, since it's an English place name rather than a royal family name, was meant to be used in perpetuity. Now we have the precedent of royals marrying commoners, and even in Camilla's case untitled commoners, we're going to run the risk of the House of Bloggs or something if a female heir presumptive marries a boyfriend from university who doesn't have noble antecedents. Much safer to leave it with Windsor at this point.

 

[Empress]

Imagine if this was the case in the Netherlands, where Napoleon forced them to adopt last names, and they (the Dutch) thinking that it was a lark, choose names like Hondenpoep and Van der Laan, translated loosely to Dog Poop, and From the Street respectively. Imagine what you would end up with for a Royal House. YIKES.

 

[wbenson]

I think the name Windsor, since it's an English place name rather than a royal family name, was meant to be used in perpetuity. Now we have the precedent of royals marrying commoners, and even in Camilla's case untitled commoners, we're going to run the risk of the House of Bloggs or something if a female heir presumptive marries a boyfriend from university who doesn't have noble antecedents. Much safer to leave it with Windsor at this point.

I agree. Although I kind of like how "Mountbatten-Windsor" sounds, it would set a precedent for an ever-expanding house name with whatever names come along.

Although Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha would be kind of fun, too...

Or they could use "Edinburgh" and name the house Windsor in England and Edinburgh in Scotland. Then that gets into the Welsh and Northern Irish feeling left out, though, and "House of Cardiff" and "House of Belfast" just sound (more) contrived.

 

[Menarue]

It was technically his mother's family's name. Princess Alice had already married into the Greek Royal Family (1903) by the time the Battenbergs changed it (1917), so she was never a Mountbatten. Perhaps Charles should change the name of the house to Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg-Windsor . Imagine the confusion during roll call if the future Danish, Norwegian, Greek, and British royals all attended the same school/class under their House name.

You forgot to add Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha that would give them more fun when they were signing documents....

 

[Jo of Palatine]

It was technically his mother's family's name. Princess Alice had already married into the Greek Royal Family (1903) by the time the Battenbergs changed it (1917), so she was never a Mountbatten. Perhaps Charles should change the name of the house to Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg-Windsor . Imagine the confusion during roll call if the future Danish, Norwegian, Greek, and British royals all attended the same school/class under their House name.

But "Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg" is not a family name - this family simply has no family name. The name is just a territorial placement of the family. Originally the "House" they are from reigned in Oldenburg (Germany). Thus the "House of Oldenburg". In 1448 one member was elected king of Denmark - he founded the lines that held estates and lands in Holstein (Gottorp and Sonderburg) and were known then by their lands name. Sonderburg's lands again were divided and one branch got Augustenburg, another Glücksburg, a third Beck. As the main possession of the last two lines (which merged) is today the kingdom of Denmark, they are calling themselves "of Denmark". The branch who was elected for Norway is similarily "of Norway".

So as Philip is only a descendent in direct male line form the branch that reigned over S-H-S-Glücksburg but he isn't reigning there, he has no claim to that name. Only dynastically a claim to be descended from them. He was Philip "of Greece and Denmark" but as I explained, this was not his name, it was based on the fact that his branch was still recognized by the main line of Denmark and reigned in Greece.

BTW: it's the same with Hanover, only that the family of Hanover has a known name (Welfs) but is not known by that in form of a family name. In 1918 the title was reduced to a family name, nowadays "von Hannover" is used as a family name, though originally it isn't. Same with Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Saxony was the dukedom turned kingdom, the Coburg (town in Bavaria) - Gotha (town in Saxony) were the branch who held these towns and the surrounding area as their dukedom. It's a very typical way to describe reigning houses in Germany while in Britain there is always a family whose Head was granted a title but who could hold different possessions/estates under the same title.

 

[Menarue]

Here in Portugal when a family has "de" in their name, which I think is the equivalent of "von", the name following it is a place name but over the years in many cases it has come to be used as a surname. In my husband´s family cousins and even brothers and sisters have ended up with a different surname because of this which makes things very difficult some times. Much easier to be a royal and sign just your first name. The present Infantas of Spain are "de España y Grecia". The Spanish make this even more complicated by putting the mother´s name last.... All very interesting but of course the name of the Spanish House is Borbón.
I like the name Windsor and I hope it isn´t changed. A beautiful castle and very apt to take that name.
If I have made any mistakes over this I am sure someone will rapidly put me right.

 

[branchg]

I was wondering might the House of Windsor be changed to the House of Mountbatten when Charles becomes King. There is precedence in history. When Queen Victoria reigned, it was over the House of Hanover, her 'maiden' name, But when her son, Edward VII, succeeded her it was over the house of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha - his fathers family name.
On a side-note I think it would be a nice tribute to the Prince Philip.

It was the House of Hanover until the death of Queen Victoria. Victoria married Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, so Edward VII, George V, George VI and Queen Elizabeth II, are actually of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (or Wettin) as male-line descendants of Prince Albert.

Since Elizabeth married Prince Philip of Greece & Denmark, after her death, Charles would actually be of the House of Glucksburg (officially the name of the Greek Royal House). Since Philip legally renounced his Greek titles and rights when he was naturalized to British citizenship as Lt. Philip Mountbatten, RN, it is arguably the House of Mountbatten that would reign after The Queen dies.

I think it's likely Charles may change the name of the royal house to Mountbatten-Windsor to honour his father.