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  #261  
Old 08-15-2018, 02:02 PM
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I don't believe that Charles WILL change the House name. Why would he? The royal family do not need a surname and the House of Windsor was chosen after long and careful consideration. There will be no House of Mountbatten.
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  #262  
Old 08-15-2018, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Then does Parliament have to approve the change to the House of Mountbatten?
As I mentioned previously my understanding is that the monarch can act unilaterally to change the name, so to answer your question Parliament does not have to approve the name change and if the government agrees or is indifferent then the name change will happen via a unilateral act by the monarch, but if the government disagrees then they can intervene.


George V changed the House name to Windsor via a royal proclamation in 1917.


In 1952 Elizabeth II issued a royal proclamation declaring that House name would remain Windsor and she and her male descendants will be known as Windsor. She did not instigate this, she was advised to do so by the then Prime Minister Winston Churchill who was alerted by Elizabeth's grandmother that Louis Mountbatten.


In 1960 Elizabeth II declared that her non-royal male descendants will be surnamed Mountbatten-Windsor. She consulted with the Prime Minister prior to issuing the declaration.


On paper these are unilateral declarations of the monarch but the 1952 and 1960 declarations illustrate that the monarch is being advised by or consulting the government before making the declarations related to the House name or even just the surname of non-royal descendants.
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  #263  
Old 08-15-2018, 04:26 PM
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In accordance with historical precedence, the name of the Royal House will be Mountbatten when HM passes. Had the Windsor name-change and the Windsor-Mountbatten "clarification" not occurred, we would see the name changing from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Mountbatten as a simple matter of course.

I fully expect Charles, by his own admission a "traditionalist", to acknowledge the House of Mountbatten.

It would be a tribute to both his Uncle Dickie and, of course, to his father, Prince Philip, who dedicated the last 70+ years of his life to royal service with nary a complaint, except that he couldn't pass his name on to his children. Possibly Charles' way of righting a wrong?
Also, a way of Charles putting his own stamp on the monarchy, to distinguish the reign of Charles III from that of Elizabeth II.

I can see it.
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  #264  
Old 08-17-2018, 02:22 PM
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I don't believe Charles will change the name. His father's name is preserved as part of the Mountbatten Windsor surname.. and the name of the Royal House is Windsor... and Im sure he will stick with that.
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  #265  
Old 08-17-2018, 05:43 PM
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Philip changed his name from Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark to Philip Mountbatten in 1947. At the time he was actually engaged to Elizabeth but the engagement had not been publicly announce. The name change to Mountbatten was a PR tactic to make it seem like Princess Elizabeth was marrying a Brit and not a foreign prince which in post-war Britain was the more palatable choice. Philip was created the Duke of Edinburgh on his wedding day so basically he was Philip Mountbatten for a few months in 1947.

The irony of all ironies is that the argument to have Mountbatten be the House name for the British Royal Family is to adhere to patrilineal naming conventions and Mountbatten is a name Philip adopted as an adult that comes via his mother's family not his father's family.



I think that House of Windsor is here to stay. One, Windsor is a better "brand name" (IMO) and current sensibilities seem to be more accepting of a royal house having a name associated with the country being represented and neither Mountbatten, Battenberg, nor Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg is quintessentially British.


There is no greater traditionalist than George V and he was the one who changed the name. Survival trumps all.
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  #266  
Old 08-18-2018, 04:08 AM
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I agree, I think that the compromise was that PHilip's name would be included for any of his descednants who needed to use a surname, but the House would remain Windsor. I would say that while Charles respects his father, he would go with Windsor as the House name.. as it has as you say a better "brand" recognition....
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  #267  
Old 08-18-2018, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
5. Elizabeth didn't think the house name was Mountbatten-Windsor until 1960 when she made that decree. She assumed the house name was Windsor - following the precedence of Queens' Regnant before her - Mary and Elizabeth being Tudors, Mary and Anne being Stuarts and Victoria being Hanover [...]
Did Queen Mary I, Queen Mary II, and Queen Anne actually use the names Tudor and Stuart after their marriages, or are we simply following the modern custom of using the names of their paternal families (much as we use Mary of Teck instead of Mary Windsor for the consort of King George V)?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
1. When the Queen became Queen it was only Mountbatten who believed that house name had changed. He was a generation early - Victoria was the House of Hanover but Edward VII was the House of Saxe-Coburg Gotha
Under German law, Queen Victoria lost her membership of the Royal House of Hannover when the union of the British and Hanoverian crowns was terminated in 1837, and became a member of the Ducal House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha when she married Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha in 1840.

Succession laws in the House of Braunschweig
House laws of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
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  #268  
Old 08-18-2018, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Did Queen Mary I, Queen Mary II, and Queen Anne actually use the names Tudor and Stuart after their marriages, or are we simply following the modern custom of using the names of their paternal families (much as we use Mary of Teck instead of Mary Windsor for the consort of King George V)?
Their house names came from the birth names. As none of those listed had children to inherit the throne the house name didn't change but if any of them had had a child to succeed them then the house name would have changed - as it did when George I succeeded being descended from the Stuarts but through a female line his house name took that of his father - James I and VI - Elizabeth (Stuart) who married and changed her name so her daughter wasn't born a Stuart but was still in the line of succession even though born a member of the house 'of the Palatinate'. When Sophie married she changed from 'of the Palatinate' to 'of Hanover' and so her son and his descendants were Hanoverians.

What name they used AFTER their marriages is irrelevant to the name of the House as their house names came from their birth names but their children's house names would come from their husband's birth names. That is the same as any other woman. The children take their names from their father's not their mother's.

Victoria remained a member of the House of Hanover but her children were from the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and so when her son succeeded as Edward VII he was the first King of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha of the UK etc.

When The Queen succeeded in 1952 she was of the House of Windsor and would remain as such, despite her married name being Mountbatten as the wife of Philip Mountbatten. Had Lord Mountbatten said nothing, as he was wrong anyway, then Charles would succeed as the first King of the House of Mountbatten. Because Mountbatten opened his mouth inaccurately the Queen first off confirmed what was in fact the case anyway - that the House name was Windsor (which it was during her reign). The mistake she made in 1952 was to declare that her children would take her maiden name ... which then lead to her being advised in 1960 that having a new baby born with her maiden name would mean he was regarded as illegitimate (not necessarily the case but the reality at the time was that a child always took their father's name and only the children of single mothers kept their mother's name as they were illegitimate). She very quickly added Mountbatten to the Windsor name to prevent any such questions - especially as the rumours of her having an affair with Porchester were doing the rounds and that Philip wasn't Andrew's father (I have never believed that but the rumours were around back then and are still around today).
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  #269  
Old 08-18-2018, 08:14 PM
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I'd have hoped she added Mountbatten to signify that she had a husband who was not only the father of her children but someone she loved and whose support she depended on, and that he wanted to give his name to his children,,.,.
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  #270  
Old 08-18-2018, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Their house names came from the birth names. As none of those listed had children to inherit the throne the house name didn't change but if any of them had had a child to succeed them then the house name would have changed - as it did when George I succeeded being descended from the Stuarts but through a female line his house name took that of his father - James I and VI - Elizabeth (Stuart) who married and changed her name so her daughter wasn't born a Stuart but was still in the line of succession even though born a member of the house 'of the Palatinate'. When Sophie married she changed from 'of the Palatinate' to 'of Hanover' and so her son and his descendants were Hanoverians.

What name they used AFTER their marriages is irrelevant to the name of the House as their house names came from their birth names but their children's house names would come from their husband's birth names. That is the same as any other woman. The children take their names from their father's not their mother's.

Victoria remained a member of the House of Hanover but her children were from the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and so when her son succeeded as Edward VII he was the first King of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha of the UK etc.

When The Queen succeeded in 1952 she was of the House of Windsor and would remain as such, despite her married name being Mountbatten as the wife of Philip Mountbatten. Had Lord Mountbatten said nothing, as he was wrong anyway, then Charles would succeed as the first King of the House of Mountbatten. Because Mountbatten opened his mouth inaccurately the Queen first off confirmed what was in fact the case anyway - that the House name was Windsor (which it was during her reign). The mistake she made in 1952 was to declare that her children would take her maiden name ... which then lead to her being advised in 1960 that having a new baby born with her maiden name would mean he was regarded as illegitimate (not necessarily the case but the reality at the time was that a child always took their father's name and only the children of single mothers kept their mother's name as they were illegitimate). She very quickly added Mountbatten to the Windsor name to prevent any such questions - especially as the rumours of her having an affair with Porchester were doing the rounds and that Philip wasn't Andrew's father (I have never believed that but the rumours were around back then and are still around today).



Using hyphenated/compound names for descendants of female sovereigns is not that uncommon, see e.g. Habsburg-Lorraine, Bragança-Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, or Orléans-Bragança. Mountbatten-Windsor seems like a reasonable compromise to me.
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  #271  
Old 08-18-2018, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Their house names came from the birth names. As none of those listed had children to inherit the throne the house name didn't change but if any of them had had a child to succeed them then the house name would have changed - as it did when George I succeeded being descended from the Stuarts but through a female line his house name took that of his father - James I and VI - Elizabeth (Stuart) who married and changed her name so her daughter wasn't born a Stuart but was still in the line of succession even though born a member of the house 'of the Palatinate'. When Sophie married she changed from 'of the Palatinate' to 'of Hanover' and so her son and his descendants were Hanoverians.

What name they used AFTER their marriages is irrelevant to the name of the House as their house names came from their birth names but their children's house names would come from their husband's birth names. That is the same as any other woman. The children take their names from their father's not their mother's.

Victoria remained a member of the House of Hanover but her children were from the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and so when her son succeeded as Edward VII he was the first King of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha of the UK etc.
I was asking whether the listed queens actually kept their birth names as their house names after their marriages, or if it is only modern Britons who call them the House of Tudor, House of Stuart, and House of Hanover, following the custom of using their birth names as their house names after their deaths.

Under German law, at least, Queen Victoria belonged to the house of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha instead of the house of Hanover after marriage (the message quoted in your post has links to the house laws of Hanover and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Using hyphenated/compound names for descendants of female sovereigns is not that uncommon, see e.g. Habsburg-Lorraine, Bragança-Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, or Orléans-Bragança. Mountbatten-Windsor seems like a reasonable compromise to me.
In Portugal, it seems the collective name of the house remained Bragança, but members of the royal family used compound names that included the family names of queens/kings consort. For example, King Carlos I (grandson of Queen Maria II) was surnamed de Bragança Saboya Bourbon Saxe-Coburgo Gotha.
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