William, Harry, their Girlfriends and the Press


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The sense I've been getting by watching message boards and various media items over the last few years is that people are becoming more accepting of Camilla. They're not saying that they love her, but more people are saying that there are things that they admire about her and that she's "good for Charles." I find that Daily Mail commentators tend to be very, very negative about people in the public eye in general and particularly about members of the RF.


Iluvbertie said:
I think you need to read a bit more carefully. I don't think that there has been any real change in the general attitude of people to Camilla at all.
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I do wonder what's going on with Harry & Chelsy. They're so quiet and private it's hard to know .....
 
 
Worse, in a taped conversation in 2005 she accused Prince Charles of bowing to public pressure to marry Diana, whom he used as a “convenient womb” to produce an heir. When asked if William was thinking of marrying Kate, she replied: “I do hope not.” Adds a senior royal source: “Just as PMK used to criticise Diana for being an unsavvy, unintelligent girl with no experience of life, she thinks Kate is missing the mantle of majesty too and really isn’t up to the mark. “She thinks it’s ridiculous that aged 28 Kate has never knuckled down to a proper job as her own children (Freddie and Gabriella Windsor) have done, or even aligned herself to a charity or cause as the two princes have.”
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Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | Columnists :: Royal critics turn on Kate Middleton
 
Iluvbertie said:
I don't think that there has been any real change in the general attitude of people to Camilla at all.
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I think we will have to disagree here. It is possible that you are not able to judge this change in mood as you are not based in the UK. You very rarely see any negative comments about Camilla in the mainstream British press.

Iluvbertie said:
There is a very strong anti-Camilla body who post regularly on the DM that she isn't fit to be Charles' Queen and that Charles isn't fit to be King either because he married her.

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You are right, there is a small and vocal body of pro-Diana people who regularly post on TRF, other similar forums and places like the DM. Most of them have a very negative view on Charles, Camilla and most of the BRF. It almost seems that for them the War of the Wales' has still not ended, and they feel they need to carry on the battle for St Diana.

However, it can fairly be said that these people are not representative of British society at large. Most British people are supportive of a visibly happier Prince Charles, and as I said, you very rarely see any adverse comments about the DoC in the mainstream press.


Iluvbertie said:
.....but Kate would probably be Queen Consort for 30+ years and the mother of the future monarchs and thus people will need to love her. I don't see them doing that - particularly as I am increasingly seeing a reduction in the respect for William.

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Any basis for your commentary?
 
muriel said:
I think we will have to disagree here. It is possible that you are not able to judge this change in mood as you are not based in the UK. You very rarely see any negative comments about Camilla in the mainstream British press.
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Just because they don't say anything bad about her anymore, does not mean the attitude towards her has not changed. IMO people just don't want to say things like they used to about Camilla because she is now Charles' wife.


muriel said:
However, it can fairly be said that these people are not representative of British society at large. Most British people are supportive of a visibly happier Prince Charles, and as I said, you very rarely see any adverse comments about the DoC in the mainstream press.
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British society can't post articles in the mainstream press stating if they hate Camilla or not can they?
People aren't bothered about the monarchy anymore, that's why you hear no comments unless you talk about the money they cost us and how it can be spent on other things.

muriel said:
Any basis for your commentary?
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It's quite obvious that people, the majority of which after Charles has passed will care very little about there monarchy and what they do.
People are bored with Kate and William, they IMO do nothing for the royal family and will unlikely do anything when they are married or when William becomes King.
And because William and Kate have been shown to be doing very little on a week to week basis, people don't have much respect for them, not in times like these.

I completely agree with what Bertie says about William loosing the respect of his country, and how the attitude towards Camilla hasn't really changed. The country has other things to worry about, they accept Camilla because she isn't going anywhere soon and they are bored of William.
 
I agree with previous posters - there is respect for the life achievement of Queen & Duke but when they are gone the knives will be out.
Charles will be under immense pressure and scruteny and it will become clear again that the opinion about Camilla hasnt really changed - she will never be popular. The "Queen" discussion will come up again and I think its possible - same as her not attending the Diana memorial service - that public opinion will pressure her into using another title.

William should fasten his seatbelt too - people will realize again that he hasnt done anything yet apart from some military training that he has mainly used to escape duty and the attention of the public.

Harry is more popular because he is more edgy but still...

And Kate ... all has been said. The image will stick, I am afraid.

Much will depend on the media that William loathes so much, same as Charles. In the UK the media has a powerpul position and I believe putting pressure on / critizising the Royals will go to a new level after QEII, backed up by the public who dont really see the point of monarchy anymore.
 
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I have fond memories of Diana; but the kind of people you describe, Muriel, make me uncomfortable. In my experience, it's possible to have a good view of the BRF, admiration for the Queen, and be a monarchist without denigrating Diana and vice versa.




muriel said:
You are right, there is a small and vocal body of pro-Diana people who regularly post on TRF, other similar forums and places like the DM. Most of them have a very negative view on Charles, Camilla and most of the BRF. It almost seems that for them the War of the Wales' has still not ended, and they feel they need to carry on the battle for St Diana.\
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Moonmaiden23 said:
I saw the photo yesterday...it is on the cover of The Enquirer here in the US...it shocked me because William's mouth is slightly open and the female has her tongue in his mouth...i figured it was from a few years ago because William doesn't have that much hair now! :lol:
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Look more closely at the photo. What you see as her tongue is the inside of her upper lip.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
I agree with previous posters - there is respect for the life achievement of Queen & Duke but when they are gone the knives will be out.
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I completely agree with you. I see the media as like an axe steadily chipping away at a very sturdy tree (the royal family). It's lasted a long time, but that doesn't mean that it can't eventually be toppled through a multitude of small blows. Every blow, even the smallest one, makes the monarchy that much weaker.

I don't see it as a case of people warming to Camilla so much as people lowering their standards. People used to see Diana and Charles as having the idyllic royal marriage, and they were upset at the idea of Camilla as someone who had shattered the idyll. But since then I think people have become used to the idea that Charles and Camilla aren't perfect and royals don't have idyllic marriages--they're just like their subjects.

In the end I think people are going to say, "Charles is just like us, human and has his faults, so why is he preaching to us about global warming? He's an adulterer, so why are we supposed to respect him as a king supposedly "above" the rest of us?"

With William and Kate it will be, "He lived with her before marriage, so why is he supposed to uphold some higher standard about marriage, and they waited years to marry, so why is their marriage even special? William is just like us, so why did he do years of military training and yet never see active service like the rest of us?" As for Kate, "The rest of us went to graduate school or worked our way up the career ladder step by step--how come Kate gets rewarded with a lifestyle of privilege and wealth simply for sticking with her boyfriend?"

I just feel that because of the relentlessness of the media, people in the next generation are going to see royalty as so ordinary and flawed and very much like everyone else of their generation, that they will resent them for having privileges the rest of society does not. Royalty is losing its ability to command respect.
 
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:previous: Amazing post :flowers: Rmay286.
"I see the media as like an axe steadily chipping away at a very sturdy tree (the royal family).It's lasted a long time, but that doesn't mean that it can't eventually be toppled through a multitude of small blows.Every blow, even the smallest one, makes the monarchy that much weaker."
Moreover I absolutel y agree with all of your points.
:question: The monarchy is a 'broke' institution?

"If teh royals are going to be just like us, then we should just have a republic..."

1-Commonwealth of Nations :sad: I think that British monarchy may end with Prince Charles, Prince of Wales
i hope :cry: :nonono: not
 
I'm not so pessimistic. Monarchies usually don't end unless there's a war or a revolution or something equally traumatic that happens within a nation. Constitutional monarchies in particular are woven into all of a nation's institutions: the law, government departments, parliament, etc. I agree that the Royal Family are going through a hard time right now because of the press, but I think that things will work out. The monarchy has faced much stiffer opposition than this. When this current monarch dies, though things will be very sad, I think that people will rally around the next monarch.
 
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Mermaid1962 said:
I'm not so pessimistic. Monarchies usually don't end unless there's a war or a revolution or something equally traumatic that happens within a nation. Constitutional monarchies in particular are woven into all of a nation's institutions: the law, government departments, parliament, etc. .
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Monarchies 'begin' :because war or a revolution :) too
India (BRIC) - Following independence in 1947, India became a republic in 1949. Republic of Ireland too.
Politically the monarch serves little purpose.
for Protection? -no more and for family values (Bye Queen,Hello Camila e Charles :D )for stability? stability or instability can be found in republics and monarchies.
Camilla married Charles, and did damage to the monarchy.
If Kate( and Chelsey) joins the firm... , :sad: she is the perfect gift to the republicans.
 
Let's stay on topic....this thread is not about Camilla, Charles, the role of the monarchy, etc.
 
What a sour article. I really hate when they say she has no proper job what's wrong for working with your family in their business, I do does that make me worthless? Seems like this reporter just does not like the Royal Family.
 
ghost_night554 said:
What a sour article. I really hate when they say she has no proper job what's wrong for working with your family in their business, I do does that make me worthless? Seems like this reporter just does not like the Royal Family.
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Actually it is a very truthful article. If it is sour, then that is the reaction this romance has caused.
A university educated girl works for her family, doing what I may ask. It has been said, although at the time it seemed in desperation, that she worked for them taking photographs, this happened at a time when she was being criticized for just being a doormat for William waiting and for his call and then running. She was photographed at the time in high heels and toting a small box.
Then of course the photographs she was taking for her parents´ on line business, then it was announced a professional was doing the photo shoot.
Then it was said she was not working any longer for her family.
This is why a family sent their daughter to an elite school and then University?
She has not taken advantage of her degree so that leaves only one answer that all the family hopes are pinned on a more than good marriage, in fact a future Queen. Oh dear, as a future Queen she leaves me cold and from this article it seems there are more people who are thinking the same.
In this long affair William isn´t coming out that well either, he is either stringing the girl along for his convenience, or maybe he has a weak character, or he is going to marry a girl who is not really suited to be his wife.
Whichever way I look at it I am a sorry for Kate for being such a wimp.
But then William is looking like a wimp too, so perhaps they are soul mates.
 
Wisteria said:
In this long affair William isn´t coming out that well either, he is either stringing the girl along for his convenience, or maybe he has a weak character, or he is going to marry a girl who is not really suited to be his wife.
Whichever way I look at it I am a sorry for Kate for being such a wimp.
But then William is looking like a wimp too, so perhaps they are soul mates.
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What if, William is the one who wants to get married? And Kate is the one who has said "Not yet, wait a while" etc?
You might not think that Kate is suited to marry William, but William might and that is the most important thing, that William marries someone who knows him and knows what she's taking on.

Why is Kate a wimp? Because she hasn't walked away from this? Or she hasn't "apparently" demanded a proposal?
 
Wisteria said:
She has not taken advantage of her degree so that leaves only one answer that all the family hopes are pinned on a more than good marriage, in fact a future Queen. Oh dear, as a future Queen she leaves me cold and from this article it seems there are more people who are thinking the same.
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She leaves you cold because she's not used her university degree out in the "real" world? Actually there are no real prerequisites for being a Queen Consort and if and when she does become Queen Consort, I believe she will be the first in history to hold that position that DOES have a university degree.

I have to agree with Lumutqueen. We really don't know who is holding off on marriage. One thing is obvious though is that these two aren't going to be jumping through the royal hoops until they decide themselves its time to jump.
 
Osipi said:
She leaves you cold because she's not used her university degree out in the "real" world? Actually there are no real prerequisites for being a Queen Consort and if and when she does become Queen Consort, I believe she will be the first in history to hold that position that DOES have a university degree.

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In a way, although I am sure you are not meaning to, you are agreeing with me.
A queen consort doesn´t have to have a degree, on that we agree.
She would be the first, but then except for Lady Diana (who had many more advantages in her luggage) it wasn´t really very common for a royal bride to have higher education, or any other woman really, but for the privileged upper and aristocratic classes even more uncommon. The idea of a highly educated woman doing odd jobs for her parents email company does not give the impression that it was the intention of her parents for her to make a future for herself but to snare(sorry a strong word) perhaps I mean attract a well connected husband.
In Kate Middleton´s case, if she had not have gone to St. Andrews it would have been highly unlikely she would have attracted Prince William´s attention, the famous underwear fashion show was a good way, intentional or not.
I can´t see how on earth Kate would be the one not wanting to marry the heir to the heir, that would mean she would be content to be known for all time as the one time girlfriend (it seems mistress was a word used for another personage but not for Kate) for the rest of her life.
When I say "wimp" perhaps I am putting my own slant on the word, it means boring to me and I am afraid that they are rather a boring couple so as I said before perhaps they are really soul mates.
 
Wisteria said:
I can´t see how on earth Kate would be the one not wanting to marry the heir to the heir, that would mean she would be content to be known for all time as the one time girlfriend (it seems mistress was a word used for another personage but not for Kate) for the rest of her life.
When I say "wimp" perhaps I am putting my own slant on the word, it means boring to me and I am afraid that they are rather a boring couple so as I said before perhaps they are really soul mates.
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I can see exactly why Kate would want to wait, for the exact reason you gave because she would be marrying the future King. Kate would have to be sure it's the right thing she wants to do, and i'm sure William would want that as well. I am loathed to say it but we don't want another Diana.
They might be boring to the outside world, or to you maybe but IMO they seem the perfect couple, as you say soulmates of boringness perhaps.
 
I think you're right "on the money" there, ghost_night554. What about the highly successful people who've worked in family businesses that have lasted for years? The thing about Kate is that she's a "blank slate" because we don't know much about her. The media just want to know more about this lady so that they write about her and sell more articles. She and William aren't cooperating.


ghost_night554 said:
What a sour article. I really hate when they say she has no proper job what's wrong for working with your family in their business, I do does that make me worthless?
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