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Old 05-20-2018, 07:34 AM
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Who was 6th in line for the throne when Queen Elizabeth was crowned?

I heard something today about a 6th in line for the throne when Queen Elizabeth was crowned and possibly his wife having passed this year on a news snippet during the royal wedding. Anyone have any idea who that might have been?
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Old 05-20-2018, 07:40 AM
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As far as I can count, It was her youngest first cousin, then 9-year-old Lord Richard Windsor (current Duke of Gloucester).

Heir - Queen's son, Prince Charles, Duke of Cornwall, then five (got the title of Prince of Wales when he was nine).
2nd - Queen's daughter, Princess Anne, then three.
3rd - Queen's only sister, Princess Margaret, ten 23-year-old, unmarried and childless.
4th - Queen's only living uncle (apart from the Duke of Windsor) Henry, Duke of Gloucester, then fifty-three, fourth child and third son of King George V and Queen Mary.
5th - Queen's first cousin, William Windsor, Earl of Ulster, Duke of Gloucester older son, then twelve (he was killed in air crash in 1972; he died unmarried and childless).
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:14 AM
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yes certainly the D of Gloucester's wife has not recently died?
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biri View Post
As far as I can count, It was her youngest first cousin, then 9-year-old Lord Richard Windsor (current Duke of Gloucester).

Heir - Queen's son, Prince Charles, Duke of Cornwall, then five (got the title of Prince of Wales when he was nine).
2nd - Queen's daughter, Princess Anne, then three.
3rd - Queen's only sister, Princess Margaret, ten 23-year-old, unmarried and childless.
4th - Queen's only living uncle (apart from the Duke of Windsor) Henry, Duke of Gloucester, then fifty-three, fourth child and third son of King George V and Queen Mary.
5th - Queen's first cousin, William Windsor, Earl of Ulster, Duke of Gloucester older son, then twelve (he was killed in air crash in 1972; he died unmarried and childless).
It was not William Windsor, Earl of Ulster or Lord Richard Windsor. As male-line grandchildren of the monarch, they were entitled to the style of HRH and title of Prince of the UK under the 1917 Letters Patent. So they were actually TRH Princes William and Richard of Gloucester, and yes, Richard was 6th at that time.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Simone T View Post
I heard something today about a 6th in line for the throne when Queen Elizabeth was crowned and possibly his wife having passed this year on a news snippet during the royal wedding. Anyone have any idea who that might have been?

I believe it was the current Duke of Gloucester, Prince Richard. His wife is pretty much alive and was at Harry's wedding yesterday.

Incidentally, if the succession to the Crown were based on agnatic (male-only) primogeniture, Prince Richard would be the King today as he is the most senior male descendant in male line of King George V. Agnatically, he should be also the head of the House of Windsor as Queen Elizabeth's descendants actually belong agnatically to a different royal house, even though the Queen chose to ignore that fact and call her family "Windsor" anyway.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:43 AM
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Yes they were prince Will and P Richard of Gloucester. however, the D of Gloucester's wife, birgitte has not died, as far as I know
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:05 AM
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Denville was probably thinking about Duke's mother.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RoyalHighness 2002 View Post
It was not William Windsor, Earl of Ulster or Lord Richard Windsor. As male-line grandchildren of the monarch, they were entitled to the style of HRH and title of Prince of the UK under the 1917 Letters Patent. So they were actually TRH Princes William and Richard of Gloucester, and yes, Richard was 6th at that time.
When they both were born (During World War II); their grandpa, King George V, was already dead; The King was already their uncle, King George VI.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:21 AM
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Denville was probably thinking about Duke's mother.
welll the mother of the Duke of Gloucester was Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester.She passed away at age 102 in 2004. She along with the Queen Mother were the members of the BRF to have reached the age of 100. After the death of her husband, and when her son married, she did not want to be known as the Dowager Duchess of Gloucester, but rather as Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester. Eventhough she wasn't a Princess of the blood, the Queen allowed her to be known as a Princess in her own name, though she wasn't created princess of the uk with letter of patent. it was more like an authorized courtesy title
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Biri View Post
When they both were born (During World War II); their grandpa, King George V, was already dead; The King was already their uncle, King George VI.
You hold the highest position you ever had throughout your life, that is why they were still entitled to the grandchildren of the monarch throughout the reigns of George VI and Elizabeth II. This is why their coronets are those of a monarch's grandchild; such is the same for the Kents and will be for the Yorks and Wessexes when the Queen passes.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Biri View Post
When they both were born (During World War II); their grandpa, King George V, was already dead; The King was already their uncle, King George VI.

We will need Tatiana Maria to sort this one out, but, apparently, grandchildren in male line of any sovereign of the United Kingdom have the dignity of prince, even if that sovereign is already deceased when they are born. Richard and his brother, as a fact, were actually styled from birth as princes.



That is indeed different from the situation in Belgium for example, where, under the 2015 royal decree, a person has to be born as a child or grandchild of a living monarch (or the heir apparent) to be a prince/princess of Belgium.


In any case, you made an interesting point, Biri, as it is actually confusing. Thanks !
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
We will need Tatiana Maria to sort this one out, but, apparently, grandchildren in male line of any sovereign of the United Kingdom have the dignity of prince, even if that sovereign is already deceased when they are born. Richard and his brother, as a fact, were actually styled as princes in the court.
Yes, this is true. Princess Alexandra and Prince Michael of Kent were also born after George V died.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:59 AM
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The 1917 Letters Patent of George V state that "the children of any Sovereign of the United Kingdom and the children of the sons of any such Sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess."

It doesn't matter whether or not the Sovereign is living when the son's children are born. They're still the children of a son of a Sovereign.

Royal Styles and Titles of Great Britain: Documents
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Simone T View Post
I heard something today about a 6th in line for the throne when Queen Elizabeth was crowned and possibly his wife having passed this year on a news snippet during the royal wedding. Anyone have any idea who that might have been?
The Dowager Countess of Harewood, widow of the Queen's first cousin, died on May 4. Her husband wasn't sixth in line when Queen Elizabeth was crowned (I think he was eleventh), but maybe that's who the news snippet referred to?
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
The 1917 Letters Patent of George V state that "the children of any Sovereign of the United Kingdom and the children of the sons of any such Sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess."

It doesn't matter whether or not the Sovereign is living when the son's children are born. They're still the children of a son of a Sovereign.

Royal Styles and Titles of Great Britain: Documents

Yes, the boldfaced phrase seems to explain it.
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:28 AM
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ALL male line grandchildren of a monarch of the UK are entitled to HRH (unless the Queen's will has been made known to be different as is the case with the Wessex children).

You don't have to have been born while that monarch was alive so ALL male line grandchildren of George V were born HRH regardless of whether they were born before or after his death.

It would have been totally unfair, for instance for the eldest son of Prince George of Kent - the late Duke of Kent - to have been born HRH Prince Edward of Kent (born October 1935) while his sister born December 1936 to have been born as Lady Alexandra Windsor (she wasn't - she was born as Princess Alexandra).

In fact if they had been born with that styling they would never have been raised to HRHs and yet William, Richard, Alexandra and Michael were born HRHs and have been their entire lives.
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
The Dowager Countess of Harewood, widow of the Queen's first cousin, died on May 4. Her husband wasn't sixth in line when Queen Elizabeth was crowned (I think he was eleventh), but maybe that's who the news snippet referred to?
Ah, good catch! It seems that the reference is indeed to him, but with some variations to the original question
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geor...rl_of_Harewood
His widow died this year and *at birth* he was 6th in line of succession...
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post



That is indeed different from the situation in Belgium for example, where, under the 2015 royal decree, a person has to be born as a child or grandchild of a living monarch (or the heir apparent) to be a prince/princess of Belgium.


Isn't it similar to the Netherlands? The members of the Royal House have to have straight line relations with the current king or queen? I think after Willem-Alexander became king, his cousins fell out of the line because they were only directly related to Beatrix through their mothers (children of sisters of the queen) but not to the new king. Please correct me if I got that wrong.
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Old 05-20-2018, 02:34 PM
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Ah, good catch! It seems that the reference is indeed to him, but with some variations to the original question
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geor...rl_of_Harewood
His widow died this year and *at birth* he was 6th in line of succession...
yes that is probably it, I can see why confusion might have arisen as Lady H died very recently....
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:07 PM
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Since the matter now appears to be resolved, this thread will be closed. Further news and information on the Lascelles Family and the recent death and funeral of the Dowager Countess of Harewood can be found in the The Lascelles Family thread.
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