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  #81  
Old 10-28-2006, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Both. To skip a generation would demean and make a mockery of everything we understand the monarchy to be. If we skip Charles, why do we need a monarchy? Surely we've defeating the object of having the institution? I don't like William and as far as I'm concerned, I'll never be a subject of his. But I agree with you - every generation has a time and they should live out their time. To skip Charles would be deeply ungrateful and IMO, totally foolish. Nobody can seriously say that this boy could do a better job than his father could?
Very true! Every generation has its time. I have nothing against William, but his father should be king before him. William's time will soon come.
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Originally Posted by ysbel
It appears that the Swedish parliament took advantage of Carl Gustaf's youth to strip some of the majesty of the Swedish monarchy. Is that true, Furienna?
YES! Gustav VI Adolf, Carl Gustaf's grandfather and predecessor, was the one, who appointed the prime ministers of Sweden. He never chose anyone except the leader of the party with the most votes in the elections, but he still had that as one of his royal duties. Carl XVI Gustaf never had the right to appoint a prime minister. That's up to the parlament's leader now. However, the king still "opens" the parlament every fall after the summer break.
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  #82  
Old 10-28-2006, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Polly
I suspect that he'll never be King of Australia.
I suspect he shall, initially, as it is most unlikely Australia will become a republic during Elizabeth's reign. After his accession, it will no doubt be brought back into question and again, a referendum on the matter will be held which I guess its safe to assume the majorty will be infavour of a constiutional re-model in the form of an elected president.
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  #83  
Old 10-28-2006, 09:20 PM
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Australia is so far away from the UK. It almost feels ridiculous, that the Brittish monarch still is the monarch of Australia today. Didn't Australia become free from Britain in every other way already in 1901? I almost wonder what's taking them.
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  #84  
Old 10-28-2006, 09:36 PM
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Charles will be King of Australia. I'll make sure of that.
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  #85  
Old 10-28-2006, 10:31 PM
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Okay. Then there's hope.
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  #86  
Old 10-28-2006, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Charles will be King of Australia. I'll make sure of that.
Sorry to dissapoint, BeatrixFan, but your future endeavours to make sure Charles is or remains, King of Australia shall be 110% fruitless This is one issue that shall not concern you, I'm affraid.

What bold support you show in the name of the future King's "claim" to govern the Commonwealth of Australia...hehe

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Okay. Then there's hope.
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  #87  
Old 10-28-2006, 11:50 PM
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I hope that you're right BeatrixFan, but I very much doubt it. The referendum failed because of arguments about the election of a replacement president. Had the question simply been 'Do you want Australia to become a Republic' Yes/No, then, according to every poll, comment or discussion I've ever read or heard, then the answer would have been a resounding 'yes'.

If the current conservative PM retires, the three most likely replacements are avowed republicans, and if the Labor opposition wins the next election, then the referendum will be held again along the above lines, I think. New Zealand may well follow shortly after.

Polly
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  #88  
Old 10-29-2006, 12:05 AM
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I don't understand why it is that Australia hates Charles so much, or the rest of the royal family for that matter. This is what cheeses me off so much. The only reason I think people don't want Charles to be king is that he divorced Diana and then Diana died in a car crash. Then he married Camilla, who isn't as attractive (which automatically disqualifies her from being a decent person ever) and then after Charles has the guts to publicly admit adultery, then more people bash him more than before. In marrying Camilla he did the right thing in finally making her an honest woman.

Charles has done so much things for his country and the Commonwealth that it would be hideously low if people threw him out of their country's history over what is really just a brief blackspot in a hithero genuinely decent career.
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  #89  
Old 10-29-2006, 01:04 AM
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I don't understand why it is that Australia hates Charles so much, or the rest of the royal family for that matter
As an Australian I dont agree with this statement at all.

As I have mentioned on more than one occasion, it's not so much about the person as it is the relevance of the monarchy to a 21st century Australian society.

A large majority of Australian's do think that to be governed (even if only by style and title) by a monarch who does not reside in this country or have any day to day impact on our society, that the relevance of keeping an institution which does not reflect our country's modern day identity and interests, is irrelevant. This, I know, is an opinion shared by many (millions) and that's perfectly understandable I think. It is an Australians' right to feel this way if they wish.

As of yet, Charles will not be documented as part of Australia's history as the only member of the royal family that is recognised in the Australian constitution is HM the Queen (the sovereign). Australia has no royal family.

Personally, I'm in favour of retaining the monarchy, but that's just me. We, like the American's (and whoever else) have the sovereign right to decide our country's political future and that needs to be respected.
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  #90  
Old 10-29-2006, 01:18 AM
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Australians don't hate Prince Charles, they've just become, mostly, indifferent to him. He has very little relevance in Australia's life, after all. On the other hand, I like him and always have. Also, Australians, generally speaking, like the Queen very much. But Australia has little relevance to her, either, save for the historical context which I believe she values.

The republican movement in Australia should be seen as being pro-Australian, rather than anti-British. Consider: how do you think the English would feel if their Head of State were Australian, or Swiss, or American?

I'm sorry that the monarchy will be departing Australia's history pages in the near future, but I'm a realist and I know that it's what the majority of Australians want. And really, it has absolutely nothing to do with the late Diana and Camilla Parker-Bowles: this movement has been gathering pace for most of the C20. Ditto, New Zealand, I believe.

Polly
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  #91  
Old 10-29-2006, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly
Australians don't hate Prince Charles, they've just become, mostly, indifferent to him. He has very little relevance in Australia's life, after all. On the other hand, I like him and always have. Also, Australians, generally speaking, like the Queen very much. But Australia has little relevance to her, either, save for the historical context which I believe she values.

The republican movement in Australia should be seen as being pro-Australian, rather than anti-British. Consider: how do you think the English would feel if their Head of State were Australian, or Swiss, or American?

I'm sorry that the monarchy will be departing Australia's history pages in the near future, but I'm a realist and I know that it's what the majority of Australians want. And really, it has absolutely nothing to do with the late Diana and Camilla Parker-Bowles: this movement has been gathering pace for most of the C20. Ditto, New Zealand, I believe.

Polly
Wonderfully put, Polly
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  #92  
Old 10-29-2006, 01:36 AM
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Belgium will cease to exist and fall apart.
But they make such excellent waffles!
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  #93  
Old 10-29-2006, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tzu An
I don't understand why it is that Australia hates Charles so much, or the rest of the royal family for that matter. This is what cheeses me off so much.
With respect, Tzu An, how can you simply announce that "Australia hates Charles" and the rest of the royal family? That's like me saying all Americans voted for G. W. Bush in the last election!

As has already been said, the majority of Australians have the utmost respect for Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, and this extends to this majority being happy to leave things as they are until her reign ends.

Then, there will likely be serious thought of Australia becoming a republic, not because of "hatred" for Charles or the royal family, but because many Australians desire complete independence from Britain. Simple as that.
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  #94  
Old 10-29-2006, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly
Australians, generally speaking, like the Queen very much. But Australia has little relevance to her, either, save for the historical context which I believe she values.
With respect to you too, Polly, is it a fact that the Queen has said Australia has little relevance to her? I think not. She has visited Australia innumerable times since 1954 and has said it and its people hold a special place in her heart. I believe Prince Philip has been quoted as saying that the Queen will be sad if Australia becomes a republic in her lifetime, but that she will accept any decision on this made by the Australian people.
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  #95  
Old 10-29-2006, 04:11 AM
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In no direct relation to anyone's post...

An extract taken from HM the Queen's speech at the Adelaide Festival Hall, 27/02/2002.

Quote:
"And in this Golden Jubilee year, I cannot but reflect on the extraordinary opportunity I have been given to serve the people of this great country. The way Australia evolves over the next fifty years is in your hands.

For myself, I thank all Australians, those here today and throughout the country, for your encouragement and support, your strength and wisdom, your honesty and good humour, all of which have sustained me and enriched my life. Whatever may lie ahead, I declare again here tonight that my admiration, affection and regard for the people of Australia will remain, as it has been over these past fifty years, constant, sure and true."
What can you say to such meanningful words?!..it's a real honour to have your Queen speak of you and your fellow countrymen and women so highly, I think.

I believe, for the best part, that its warmly reciprocated and it is for such reasons that Australia shall remain under her governance for if we chose to reform our current constitution, it would be the greatest disservice to a lady we, many of us, admire and respect.

Elizabeth II is well aware of our country's future intentions but she has accepted them as any intelligent and understanding person would.

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  #96  
Old 10-29-2006, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu Ane
I don't understand why it is that Australia hates Charles so much, or the rest of the royal family for that matter. This is what cheeses me off so much.
Well this is a generalization and I don't think it's correct. I'm Australian and I don't hate Charles and I like Queen Elizabeth II. I just think the Australian head of state should be a true representive of Australia, which I think the Queen is not. I think she is a true representive of the UK.
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  #97  
Old 10-29-2006, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Avareenah
With respect to you too, Polly, is it a fact that the Queen has said Australia has little relevance to her? I think not. She has visited Australia innumerable times since 1954 and has said it and its people hold a special place in her heart. I believe Prince Philip has been quoted as saying that the Queen will be sad if Australia becomes a republic in her lifetime, but that she will accept any decision on this made by the Australian people.
Her Majesty has already said that she doesn't anticipate returning to Australia again - not that I blame her. Our dear Queen is now an elderly woman and the trip, even in a customised plane, would obviously be a hardhsip for her. Fair 'nuff, too. And I don't think that she has visited us 'innumerable times'. Her Majesty has visited when there's been an important occasion, either here or in New Zealand, but she didn't visit when she was most wanted - at the celebrations for Australia's 200th birthday. 1988. The Prince of Wales and his wife, Diana, joined us on that occasion.

As for her accepting any decision made by the Australian people...well, of course she would, eminently sensible and practical woman that she is. It would upset her, that I do believe, because she has a definite and definable sense of historical purpose and record. But I don't believe that Australia, New Zealand or even Canada, for that matter, have anything like the pull on her that the UK has. And why would they? except for the fact that they are all currently members of her Dominions.

Let me give a simple and recent example. In the football World Cup held in Germany, Her Majesty invited England's team to Buckingham Palace to wish them well and all good fortune. She publicly announced her support for the team. Her Majesty, subsequently, offered no public support, whatsoever, to 'her' only other team in contention, i.e. Australia, despite the fact that Australia had to overcome a very odd and unfair selection process to even get there. We didn't even rate a mention, although given the circumstances, I thought that she might have, at least, sent her good wishes. Members of Australia's football team noted that fact, as did a few others, i.e. that our Head of State ignored us. Not remarkably, Queen Elizabeth doesn't relate to Australia, in any way except the historical context, in my opinion.

I do believe, too, that HRH the Duke of Edinburgh, has pronounced on the subject of Australia's becoming a republic. At least, I've read so. When the results of the referendum were transmitted to the Palace, he, allegedly said, 'are they mad?.

I think that Queen Elizabeth is a hard-working, honourable, and serious woman who has great respect for the dignity of the British Commonwealth. Nevertheless, she doesn't have the same affection and natural love for any of us that she has for Britain, and in this, who can blame her? She is British and that's where she lives and where her heart is.

As for her elegant speech, Madame Royale, it was just what Australia wanted to hear. However, Her Majesty doesn't write her own speeches, though she would hardly say anything which was out of character as Queen of Australia, of course.

In sum, I believe that Australia, New Zealand and Canada are important to her, but only insofar as she is strong proponent of the Commonwealth's ideals and would not welcome the departure of any of us from the 'family' in her lifetime.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'd keep her forever, if I could.

Polly
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  #98  
Old 10-29-2006, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly
As for her elegant speech, Madame Royale, it was just what Australia wanted to hear. However, Her Majesty doesn't write her own speeches, though she would hardly say anything which was out of character as Queen of Australia, of course.
Elegant or not, Polly, the Queen would not say something she did not feel or think to be true. Sure, it was drafted for her but Her Majesty's input would be nothing short of critical to the accuracy of her sentiments and how she wished them to be conveyed. I don't believe its primary purpose was for the benefit of the Australian people or what they wanted to hear, rather an aging Queen of Australia acknowledging the fondness and to the best part, pride, she feels at having served this distant continent the best way she has known how.

Not everything is lined with a diplomatic purpose, but this is just my take on it of course.

In regards to the Queen ever returning to our shores, I believe much talk of it has been discussed through the media and people such as ourselves, yet Elizabeth herself, is yet to make public such thought's (which isn't very likely). Our very own PM said during HM recent visit in March that he believes its quite likely that the Queen will return if the occasion ever calls for it. Whether or not it does, remains to be seen of course.

As you notably mentioned though, at an age beyond 80, I think its fair to say that such distances aren't seen as something particularly joyful, least of all comfortable (even if your boeing 747 jet is stripped internally and refurbished in a décor, 'fit for a Queen' shall we say?..hehe).

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Please don't misunderstand me. I'd keep her forever, if I could.
As would we both
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  #99  
Old 10-29-2006, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Polly
Let me give a simple and recent example. In the football World Cup held in Germany, Her Majesty invited England's team to Buckingham Palace to wish them well and all good fortune. She publicly announced her support for the team. Her Majesty, subsequently, offered no public support, whatsoever, to 'her' only other team in contention, i.e. Australia, despite the fact that Australia had to overcome a very odd and unfair selection process to even get there. We didn't even rate a mention, although given the circumstances, I thought that she might have, at least, sent her good wishes. Members of Australia's football team noted that fact, as did a few others, i.e. that our Head of State ignored us. Not remarkably, Queen Elizabeth doesn't relate to Australia, in any way except the historical context, in my opinion.
That's a sad thing. I wasn't aware of it before. And we had examples at the World Cup when eg CP Maxima of the Netherlands managed to fit two countries into her one heart.
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Old 10-29-2006, 10:40 AM
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Yes, I would say that's a valid example of why Australia would want an Australian head of state.
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