Van Cutsem Family


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Lady Marmalade said:
I applaud the Prince of Wales for not bowing to that pressure. And yes, both Ladies married beneath them.

I too applaud him.
Both girls married beneath them, it may have been love on their part, the men married to gain a higher social ranking, same as it has always been. :)
 
My understanding of the issue was that C&C understood they would not be able to sit together, but they were dismayed that Camilla was seated on the other side of the church and way in back.

The Duke of Westminster and his sister joined C&C at Sandringham for a weekend early last December, so it appears that Charles is still on friendly terms with them.
 
And Daddy-in-law Duke Of Westminster reportly gave the couple 10 million pounds... :)

These four boys never appealed to me and just seemed like social climbers.

I know in Britain's aristocratic society, having that title..even if it is just Honourable before your name, lends tremendous status...even amongst the younger generation.

Whether their parents and Their Graces like it or not, he is the Prince of Wales and is at the top, socially, of the ladder.

I mean, it was a society wedding, wasn't it???? ;)

The only reason the royals would have gone is more to do with the Duke of Westminster than any ties the COMMON Van Cutsems...friends or no friends.

Both of these young Ladies are as blue-blooded as one could be given their backgrounds.
 
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William & Harry would have gone for the VCs. Edward's grandfather's second wife was apparently a friend of several royals, including Princess Margaret, and the VCs must have some contact with EIIR because the Norfolk country set is a small group of people.

Rose Astor isn't all that blue-blooded. She's descended from American stock, and neither of her parents are titled. The VCs are descended from marquesses, earls, and the like, and Mrs VC is Dutch nobility, so they aren't as COMMON as you like to portray them.

Edward & Tamara have indicated they won't use the money her dad gave them for their lifestyles, and they refused the offer of a house off the Westminster estate so they could pay their own way.

The VCs may not be in the Westminster league financially, but they aren't hurting for cash at all. They just shelled out 5m for their house in Norfolk, not including land.
 
Lady Rose Astor is as blue-blooded as one can get. Descended from a society family on both sides of the 'pond". And she is titled.

The Van Cutsems seem like Nescafe society...hangers-on..

Both boys landed big two big catches. But their family is NOT in the same league as any other British titled and aristocratic family. They are as common as one could get.

If it were not for Lady Tamara's money, they could not afford that house, or any other larger home like that.
 
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Rose Astor is not the daughter of an earl, marquess or duke, so she is not a Lady. She was Miss Rose Astor (neither of her parents are titled, her dad's neither Viscount Astor or Baron Astor of Hever) before marriage and is Mrs Hugh van Cutsem Jnr now. She is not titled at all.

Edward & Tamara declined the offer of the house and took out a mortgage for a different residence (not on the Westminster estate).
 
Rose Nancy Langhorne Astor is the daughter of David Waldorf Astor (the eldest son of the 3rd son of the 2nd Viscount Astor) and Clare St John. Neither she, nor her three elder siblings, nor either of her parents are titled. Her grandfather was/is The Honourable Michael Astor, but that doesn't pass down.
 
She is still as blue-blooded as one could get..title or no title. The name Astor evokes it in both the U.S. and in Great Britain.

Bottom line, both these boys made great financial catches. Pity these ladies did not marry someone up to a more higher and classier standard. But, I guess love is blind.
 
The name Van Cutsem sounds so Flemish? Is this family originally from Belgium or Holland maybe? If so how come they became British?
 
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They come from Belgium and immigrated in the late 1800s. Most of the family still lives in Belgium.
 
Rose is not as blue-blooded as one could get. She is landed gentry, even though members of her family are in the nobility and aristocracy -- as are the VCs, who have earls and marquesses in their family tree too, are are related by blood to Serena Linley, and IIRC, Andrew Parker Bowles (through the de Traffords). The VCs aren't new, they aren't common, and they aren't after women for their money.
 
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kelly9480 said:
The VCs aren't new, and they aren't after women for their money.

The van Cutsems aren't that rich or landed that they could afford to say no to the extra financial boost which is now available to them, after a helping hand up another rung of the social ladder.
 
She is an Astor by birth. That bloodline alone with that name defines aristocratic and social order of the highest level. Her family name is at the top of the social ladder on both sides of the pond.

The Van Cutsems...they just happen to be known for being past friends of the Prince of Wales, William and Harry.

If not for that and for the fact two of them married ATM machines..who would even care about them?
 
The Astors are hardly at the top of the social ladder in the UK. The Grosvenors are, the Spencers are, the Cavendishs are. The Astors aren't in their league.

The VCs are known to those outside their set for their friendships with the royals, but they're known for other things than that within the circle. Hugh is known for his work with organic farming, and his conservation work, and the family is one of the more prominent (not necessarily powerful) Catholic families in Britain. Just because we know them for the royal connection doesn't mean there's nothing else to them. And it's rude to suggest otherwise.

Hugh didn't marry an ATM machine. Rose is not going to inherit the lion's share of the family fortune (neither will Tamara, barring something tragic happening to her brother). While Tamara can afford to live a life of leisure, Edward, Hugh and Rose have to work for a living. It says something about how Tamara was raised that she chooses to work for a publishing company when she clearly doesn't have to.
 
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Skydragon said:
The van Cutsems aren't that rich or landed that they could afford to say no to the extra financial boost which is now available to them, after a helping hand up another rung of the social ladder.
I notice you didn't quote the entire quote. Why is that?

No family outside the Guinnesses, Grosvenors, and Cadogans can afford to ignore a financial boost, so it's not like the VCs are the only family that can be accused of marrying one of those three families for their money.

If Edward is good enough for the Duke of Westminster, who went on record as saying he taught his children to beware fortune hunters, is happy with Edward -- and he basically watched him grow up and has said he likes him, who are any of us to complain?

Rose's branch of the Astors is so non-famous their marriage drew more attention because Kate and Jecca were there than because either an Astor or VC married, so it's not like she's at the top of the social heap.

Social prominence isn't determined by money, or else Charles would be friendly with Roman Abramovich and David Beckham would be an earl by now. Money doesn't get you anywhere with the royals, except Charles' pay-for-the-pleasure-of-being-near-me luncheons that he uses with major donors to the Prince's Trust.
 
i've read that the VCs were raised to be "a bit square"...what exactly does this mean?
 
They weren't allowed to do the things most kids their age and social class did, like wear jeans. Emilie is old-school and her kids were raised very strictly. They seem to be kind of boring, to be honest. They don't appear to have any hobbies outside shooting.
 
The Astors are very much at the top of the "social heap" as you call it. Her blood is as blue as the Danube..as the saying goes.

Her descendent here in the US, Caroline Astor, certainly proved that.

Blood, my dear, determines everything, and her bloodline is impressive.

The Van Cutsems...wannabes...that's all.

Such a shame about both marriages, but at least I am not married to either of them.

The mother probably raised the sons like that as she probably thought that would be the only way to land a rich woman.

Oh..and there are plenty of titled families who are exceptionally wealthy and could ignore a financial boost. ;)
 
Caroline Astor was an cousin not a descendant. She's descended from the Astor who fled to Britian because Caroline outshone him socially. Caroline Astor had one son, John Jacob, who went down on the Titanic. He had two sons, Vincent, from his first marriage, and John Jacob from his second. Rose is not a descendant of either of those two men, and thus is not a descendant of Caroline.

Her bloodline is no more impressive than many other British families, especially when you start to look at the families with the higher ranking titles, like the Devonshires, Spencers, Marlboroughs, etc.

The VCs are descended from old stock, stock even older than the Astors (and the Spencers, for that matter), but I guess since their ancestry is in Belgium, you choose to discount it?

Emilie raised her children the same way she was raised, and, considering what her father-in-law was like, probably in much the same way her husband was raised.

There are no titled families in Britain that could ignore a financial boost like the one they would get should Tamara inherit the entire Westminster fortune. None come close to what she'd inherit -- not even the Cadogans, Howard de Waldens, or the various Guinnesses. In fact, if you added up the worth of those three families, it's still not half of what the Westminsters are worth. So who are these "plenty of titled families who are exceptionally wealthy and could ignore a financial boost" you claim exist?

I can't understand someone who despises two young men they'll never meet and dismisses the intelligence of the two young women who chose to marry them.
 
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I think this particular argument has passed its sell-by date. I don't think it's appropriate to speculate on Mrs Van Cutsem's motives and intentions in the way she raised her children or on the feelings of the Van Cutsem sons or their wives about why they married.

If there's nothing to add to this thread apart from speculation, it might be time to close it.

Elspeth

British Royals moderator
 
Rose van Cutsem

I was wondering why Rose van Cutsem didn't attend the Concert for Diana with her husband Hugh.
 
I was wondering why Rose van Cutsem didn't attend the Concert for Diana with her husband Hugh.

No idea. I think I only saw Edward & Tamara, Emilie, and William. It looked like they were roughly in the row behind the Middletons.

The VCs are descended from old stock, stock even older than the Astors (and the Spencers, for that matter), but I guess since their ancestry is in Belgium, you choose to discount it?

Belgium? I'm sorry if it seems stupid, but I honestly thought the 'van Cutsem' name came from the Netherlands. :huh:
Kelly, I just want to say that I have read all of the posts in this thread and I agree 100% with your posts. I join you in disagreeing about the VC brothers just marrying for social cachet or money. I mean, it's true that the VCs fall short of the Westminster league, but so do most people, because the Duke of Westminster is one of the wealthiest men in Britain. That doesn't mean the VCs are paupers. ;)
 
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I was wondering why Rose van Cutsem didn't attend the Concert for Diana with her husband Hugh.
Didn't she recently have a baby? That could be why.

As for those two Van Cutsem marriages, I think the one with the straight hair who married the red head, well, I wouldn't be surprised if that marriage was probably for more than love on his part. She looks like she battles her wait valiantly but is losing the fight. She looks larger than him in some photos, especially one where she has on a green sweater, long skirt and he is holding an umbrella. She looks dowdy next to his very handsome/dapper look. Very sad photo. (If you go to Getty Images and type "Van Cutsem," you will see the photo. Bless her heart.) He on the other hand looks like a playboy and she looks like the rather plain, rich girl of average looks who is fighting her weight, who he's with for her connections. I have seen photos of him with some knockouts on his arm before his current wife.

As for the Van Cutsem brother with the dark curly hair and the funny eyes, he and his wife (Rose Astor, I think is her name) seem better matched.

I'm sure I'm totally wrong about all of it but the pictures of them are kind of....telling....

But, if they are both happy, then that's all that counts.
 
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YES, SHE DID HAVE A BABY, A DAUGHTER Grace Emilie Clare, BORN 18 August, 2007.
 
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Here is hoping the daughter inherits the money and not her commmon husband.

As I said before, such a shame both Rose and Tamara married beneath them.
 
It Is Nice That They Married For Love (beneath Them) And Are Happy. Instead Of Marrying A Prince Or A Person Of Their Rank And Not Be Happy Or In Love.
 
Here is hoping the daughter inherits the money and not her commmon husband.

As I said before, such a shame both Rose and Tamara married beneath them.
I do see your point about diluting their bloodlines, especially in case of the Duke of Westminster's daughter Lady Tamara Grosvenor. However, I believe that both ladies did have the say in this matter because Rose was 25 and Lady Tamara Grosvenor was 24. It might be presumed that the parents did discuss the state of things with them.
At the same time, the times, when husband used to blow fortunes that their wives bought as dowries, has been long gone. Both ladies are capable of managing their money themselves. Furthermore, there are legal ways to ensure that the daughters and/or their children would get control over money.
 
I recently read about this family in Tatler...and found this thread. They are semi-interesting...calling the boys gold diggers seems a bit much when they probably have plenty of money as well...

And I think it's ridiculous to say someone is marrying beneath them...it sounds so elitist and pretentious in this year.
 
I was wondering why Rose van Cutsem didn't attend the Concert for Diana with her husband Hugh.

What makes you think Rose was not there? Did someone say it definitively? I thought many VCs were there, all in third row I think: William, his g/f (Zembla will know from the Tatler article, isn't she Jecca Craig?); Hugh & Rose, Edward, Tamara, Emilie, Nick.... only VC I don't think for sure was there is Hugh Sr. :confused:
 
The only Van Cutsem's visible in attendance were Edward, Tamara and Hugh.
 
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