Van Cutsem Family

[kelly9480]

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

She is still as blue-blooded as one could get..title or no title. The name Astor evokes it in both the U.S. and in Great Britain.

Bottom line, both these boys made great financial catches. Pity these ladies did not marry someone up to a more higher and classier standard. But, I guess love is blind.

Rose is not as blue-blooded as one could get. She is landed gentry, even though members of her family are in the nobility and aristocracy -- as are the VCs, who have earls and marquesses in their family tree too, are are related by blood to Serena Linley, and IIRC, Andrew Parker Bowles (through the de Traffords). The VCs aren't new, they aren't common, and they aren't after women for their money.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by kelly9480

The VCs aren't new, and they aren't after women for their money.

The van Cutsems aren't that rich or landed that they could afford to say no to the extra financial boost which is now available to them, after a helping hand up another rung of the social ladder.

[Lady Marmalade]

She is an Astor by birth. That bloodline alone with that name defines aristocratic and social order of the highest level. Her family name is at the top of the social ladder on both sides of the pond.

The Van Cutsems...they just happen to be known for being past friends of the Prince of Wales, William and Harry.

If not for that and for the fact two of them married ATM machines..who would even care about them?

[kelly9480]

The Astors are hardly at the top of the social ladder in the UK. The Grosvenors are, the Spencers are, the Cavendishs are. The Astors aren't in their league.

The VCs are known to those outside their set for their friendships with the royals, but they're known for other things than that within the circle. Hugh is known for his work with organic farming, and his conservation work, and the family is one of the more prominent (not necessarily powerful) Catholic families in Britain. Just because we know them for the royal connection doesn't mean there's nothing else to them. And it's rude to suggest otherwise.

Hugh didn't marry an ATM machine. Rose is not going to inherit the lion's share of the family fortune (neither will Tamara, barring something tragic happening to her brother). While Tamara can afford to live a life of leisure, Edward, Hugh and Rose have to work for a living. It says something about how Tamara was raised that she chooses to work for a publishing company when she clearly doesn't have to.

[kelly9480]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

The van Cutsems aren't that rich or landed that they could afford to say no to the extra financial boost which is now available to them, after a helping hand up another rung of the social ladder.

I notice you didn't quote the entire quote. Why is that?

No family outside the Guinnesses, Grosvenors, and Cadogans can afford to ignore a financial boost, so it's not like the VCs are the only family that can be accused of marrying one of those three families for their money.

If Edward is good enough for the Duke of Westminster, who went on record as saying he taught his children to beware fortune hunters, is happy with Edward -- and he basically watched him grow up and has said he likes him, who are any of us to complain?

Rose's branch of the Astors is so non-famous their marriage drew more attention because Kate and Jecca were there than because either an Astor or VC married, so it's not like she's at the top of the social heap.

Social prominence isn't determined by money, or else Charles would be friendly with Roman Abramovich and David Beckham would be an earl by now. Money doesn't get you anywhere with the royals, except Charles' pay-for-the-pleasure-of-being-near-me luncheons that he uses with major donors to the Prince's Trust.

[Chu-Chi]

i've read that the VCs were raised to be "a bit square"...what exactly does this mean?

[kelly9480]

They weren't allowed to do the things most kids their age and social class did, like wear jeans. Emilie is old-school and her kids were raised very strictly. They seem to be kind of boring, to be honest. They don't appear to have any hobbies outside shooting.

[Lady Marmalade]

The Astors are very much at the top of the "social heap" as you call it. Her blood is as blue as the Danube..as the saying goes.

Her descendent here in the US, Caroline Astor, certainly proved that.

Blood, my dear, determines everything, and her bloodline is impressive.

The Van Cutsems...wannabes...that's all.

Such a shame about both marriages, but at least I am not married to either of them.

The mother probably raised the sons like that as she probably thought that would be the only way to land a rich woman.

Oh..and there are plenty of titled families who are exceptionally wealthy and could ignore a financial boost.

[kelly9480]

Caroline Astor was an cousin not a descendant. She's descended from the Astor who fled to Britian because Caroline outshone him socially. Caroline Astor had one son, John Jacob, who went down on the Titanic. He had two sons, Vincent, from his first marriage, and John Jacob from his second. Rose is not a descendant of either of those two men, and thus is not a descendant of Caroline.

Her bloodline is no more impressive than many other British families, especially when you start to look at the families with the higher ranking titles, like the Devonshires, Spencers, Marlboroughs, etc.

The VCs are descended from old stock, stock even older than the Astors (and the Spencers, for that matter), but I guess since their ancestry is in Belgium, you choose to discount it?

Emilie raised her children the same way she was raised, and, considering what her father-in-law was like, probably in much the same way her husband was raised.

There are no titled families in Britain that could ignore a financial boost like the one they would get should Tamara inherit the entire Westminster fortune. None come close to what she'd inherit -- not even the Cadogans, Howard de Waldens, or the various Guinnesses. In fact, if you added up the worth of those three families, it's still not half of what the Westminsters are worth. So who are these "plenty of titled families who are exceptionally wealthy and could ignore a financial boost" you claim exist?

I can't understand someone who despises two young men they'll never meet and dismisses the intelligence of the two young women who chose to marry them.

[Elspeth]

I think this particular argument has passed its sell-by date. I don't think it's appropriate to speculate on Mrs Van Cutsem's motives and intentions in the way she raised her children or on the feelings of the Van Cutsem sons or their wives about why they married.

If there's nothing to add to this thread apart from speculation, it might be time to close it.

Elspeth

British Royals moderator

[ls158]

I was wondering why Rose van Cutsem didn't attend the Concert for Diana with her husband Hugh.

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by ls158

I was wondering why Rose van Cutsem didn't attend the Concert for Diana with her husband Hugh.

No idea. I think I only saw Edward & Tamara, Emilie, and William. It looked like they were roughly in the row behind the Middletons.

Originally Posted by kelly9480

The VCs are descended from old stock, stock even older than the Astors (and the Spencers, for that matter), but I guess since their ancestry is in Belgium, you choose to discount it?

Belgium? I'm sorry if it seems stupid, but I honestly thought the 'van Cutsem' name came from the Netherlands.
Kelly, I just want to say that I have read all of the posts in this thread and I agree 100% with your posts. I join you in disagreeing about the VC brothers just marrying for social cachet or money. I mean, it's true that the VCs fall short of the Westminster league, but so do most people, because the Duke of Westminster is one of the wealthiest men in Britain. That doesn't mean the VCs are paupers.

[Luv2Cruise]

Originally Posted by ls158

I was wondering why Rose van Cutsem didn't attend the Concert for Diana with her husband Hugh.

Didn't she recently have a baby? That could be why.

As for those two Van Cutsem marriages, I think the one with the straight hair who married the red head, well, I wouldn't be surprised if that marriage was probably for more than love on his part. She looks like she battles her wait valiantly but is losing the fight. She looks larger than him in some photos, especially one where she has on a green sweater, long skirt and he is holding an umbrella. She looks dowdy next to his very handsome/dapper look. Very sad photo. (If you go to Getty Images and type "Van Cutsem," you will see the photo. Bless her heart.) He on the other hand looks like a playboy and she looks like the rather plain, rich girl of average looks who is fighting her weight, who he's with for her connections. I have seen photos of him with some knockouts on his arm before his current wife.

As for the Van Cutsem brother with the dark curly hair and the funny eyes, he and his wife (Rose Astor, I think is her name) seem better matched.

I'm sure I'm totally wrong about all of it but the pictures of them are kind of....telling....

But, if they are both happy, then that's all that counts.

[HMTLove23]

YES, SHE DID HAVE A BABY, A DAUGHTER Grace Emilie Clare, BORN 18 August, 2007.

[Lady Marmalade]

Here is hoping the daughter inherits the money and not her commmon husband.

As I said before, such a shame both Rose and Tamara married beneath them.

[HMTLove23]

It Is Nice That They Married For Love (beneath Them) And Are Happy. Instead Of Marrying A Prince Or A Person Of Their Rank And Not Be Happy Or In Love.

[Al_bina]

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

Here is hoping the daughter inherits the money and not her commmon husband.

As I said before, such a shame both Rose and Tamara married beneath them.

I do see your point about diluting their bloodlines, especially in case of the Duke of Westminster's daughter Lady Tamara Grosvenor. However, I believe that both ladies did have the say in this matter because Rose was 25 and Lady Tamara Grosvenor was 24. It might be presumed that the parents did discuss the state of things with them.
At the same time, the times, when husband used to blow fortunes that their wives bought as dowries, has been long gone. Both ladies are capable of managing their money themselves. Furthermore, there are legal ways to ensure that the daughters and/or their children would get control over money.

[zembla]

I recently read about this family in Tatler...and found this thread. They are semi-interesting...calling the boys gold diggers seems a bit much when they probably have plenty of money as well...

And I think it's ridiculous to say someone is marrying beneath them...it sounds so elitist and pretentious in this year.

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by ls158

I was wondering why Rose van Cutsem didn't attend the Concert for Diana with her husband Hugh.

What makes you think Rose was not there? Did someone say it definitively? I thought many VCs were there, all in third row I think: William, his g/f (Zembla will know from the Tatler article, isn't she Jecca Craig?); Hugh & Rose, Edward, Tamara, Emilie, Nick.... only VC I don't think for sure was there is Hugh Sr.

[zembla]

The only Van Cutsem's visible in attendance were Edward, Tamara and Hugh.