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  #21  
Old 04-02-2006, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk1189
I disagree. He is a friend who happens to be the Prince of Wales. I also believe it was selfish not to attend your godson's wedding because your partner couldn't sit with you nor enter thru the same door. Your godson didn't create the situation. Also, the Queen was going to be in attendance and protocol is protocol.
I believe that he was right to stand up for the woman he loved. They could have sat together. They had I believe already agreed to arrive and leave separately.

As I said, it seems they were inviting him as the Prince of Wales and not as Charles, their friend of many years and that really does make you question whether their friendship was worth having in the first place!
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  #22  
Old 04-02-2006, 03:19 PM
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I see your logic Skydragon and I modify my opinion somewhat. Yes, this very well may had spurred Charles to marry Camilla sooner than later (we all knew he planned to marry her, didn't we?) But I still feel that Charles was sanctimonious for his behaviour. The four families have been friends for a very long time (Wales, Westminster, Van Cutsem and Parker-Bowles). With Her Majesty there, he should had made the sacrifice for a couple of hours. I am sure that the Westminsters and the Van Cutsem have helped Charles when he needed somewhere discreet to meet Camilla out of the public eye. It is a shame; hopefully they will be able to mend this rift.
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  #23  
Old 04-02-2006, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Warren
Yes, but Hugh van Cutsem's wedding took place at Chester Cathedral in a CofE ceremony.
Hugh van Cutsem married in Oxfordshire. Edward married in Chester. Both married Anglicans and in Anglican ceremonies, though I know there were Catholic officials at Edward's wedding (Hugh's didn't make enough headlines for that to get out) and the children will be raised Catholic.
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  #24  
Old 04-02-2006, 10:47 PM
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With their wivess money to live on...both Ladies married socially beneath them.

I agree with Skydragon. The Prince of Wales should NOT have to make sacrifices like that to anyone.
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  #25  
Old 04-03-2006, 04:09 PM
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They don't live off their wives. Edward, Tamara, Hugh and Rose all have jobs. Edward & Hugh work in finance, and Tamara and Rose seem to work in the literature field.
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  #26  
Old 04-03-2006, 04:22 PM
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Charles behaved the way he usually does...like a spoilt brat!....sorry he is one member of the BRf that gets my hackles rising.

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  #27  
Old 04-04-2006, 10:57 AM
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I applaud the Prince of Wales for not bowing to that pressure. And yes, both Ladies married beneath them.
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  #28  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:22 AM
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Well we must agree to disagree :)

Yes, prior to his marriage Camilla was his partner/companion and should have been treated with respect by friends/family (can't believe I am saying this!) and if Prince Charles was an ordinary man it would probably have not been a big deal sitting them together. But he is NOT. You can't have it both ways. And let's face it..if he really wanted them to sit together..he could have asked the Queen not to attend (not that would happen or she would agree) because that was the real reason for seating arrangements. correct?

Again, it did push him to formalize his relationship with Camilla so some good came out of the whole affair. And truthfully, if he had stuck up for her years ago (well..thats another thread). So I think he was selfish..it was a couple of hours to spend some time with his godson...which tells me that they don't have a relationship at all.
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  #29  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:36 AM
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so what brought status into this, they married for love not the depth of their pockets, the business circle senior van custem must have introduced him into the upper class circles and thus their boys grew up with other upper class children and then they met thier wives, so what does it matter where you come from or who ypur ancestors are, and by the way you can still find working or middle class men smug of themselves and loving themselves it doesn't matter what class you are but your attitudes, and william and harry must like the boys to be friends with them, so please don't judge on what you don't know and with your prejudices intact
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  #30  
Old 04-04-2006, 01:12 PM
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Camilla was actually being treated as Charles's wife for about 3 years prior to their marriage. She was living with Charles for most of the time and was certainly with him at weekends. Gyles Brandreth said that people were standing up and bowing to her etc, something that made her visibly uncomfortable so it was accepted both in whats left of high society and in the Royal Household. The Duchess of Westminster would have known the position but she couldn't bend the rules. But Skydragon is right - was she inviting Charles as a member of the Royal Family or as a friend? Or was she just inviting Camilla for the sake of having her there with Charles?

I think that Lady Marmalade is right - financially and class-wise, the girls did marry beneath them. I'm sure Lady M didn't mean that the marriage wouldn't work as a result but it's a fact that they did marry beneath them and I'm sure that money was an attractive reason for marrying although I doubt it was the only reason.

I don't think Charles has told William and Harry that they can't see the VCs or the Grosvenors but as a now married couple, he and Camilla have decided not to bury the hatchet and to keep relations cool and to a minimum which they're entitled to do.
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  #31  
Old 04-05-2006, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
I applaud the Prince of Wales for not bowing to that pressure. And yes, both Ladies married beneath them.
I too applaud him.
Both girls married beneath them, it may have been love on their part, the men married to gain a higher social ranking, same as it has always been. :)
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  #32  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:20 PM
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My understanding of the issue was that C&C understood they would not be able to sit together, but they were dismayed that Camilla was seated on the other side of the church and way in back.

The Duke of Westminster and his sister joined C&C at Sandringham for a weekend early last December, so it appears that Charles is still on friendly terms with them.
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  #33  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:23 PM
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And Daddy-in-law Duke Of Westminster reportly gave the couple 10 million pounds... :)

These four boys never appealed to me and just seemed like social climbers.

I know in Britain's aristocratic society, having that title..even if it is just Honourable before your name, lends tremendous status...even amongst the younger generation.

Whether their parents and Their Graces like it or not, he is the Prince of Wales and is at the top, socially, of the ladder.

I mean, it was a society wedding, wasn't it????

The only reason the royals would have gone is more to do with the Duke of Westminster than any ties the COMMON Van Cutsems...friends or no friends.

Both of these young Ladies are as blue-blooded as one could be given their backgrounds.
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  #34  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:44 PM
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William & Harry would have gone for the VCs. Edward's grandfather's second wife was apparently a friend of several royals, including Princess Margaret, and the VCs must have some contact with EIIR because the Norfolk country set is a small group of people.

Rose Astor isn't all that blue-blooded. She's descended from American stock, and neither of her parents are titled. The VCs are descended from marquesses, earls, and the like, and Mrs VC is Dutch nobility, so they aren't as COMMON as you like to portray them.

Edward & Tamara have indicated they won't use the money her dad gave them for their lifestyles, and they refused the offer of a house off the Westminster estate so they could pay their own way.

The VCs may not be in the Westminster league financially, but they aren't hurting for cash at all. They just shelled out 5m for their house in Norfolk, not including land.
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  #35  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:04 PM
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Lady Rose Astor is as blue-blooded as one can get. Descended from a society family on both sides of the 'pond". And she is titled.

The Van Cutsems seem like Nescafe society...hangers-on..

Both boys landed big two big catches. But their family is NOT in the same league as any other British titled and aristocratic family. They are as common as one could get.

If it were not for Lady Tamara's money, they could not afford that house, or any other larger home like that.
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  #36  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:22 PM
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Rose Astor is not the daughter of an earl, marquess or duke, so she is not a Lady. She was Miss Rose Astor (neither of her parents are titled, her dad's neither Viscount Astor or Baron Astor of Hever) before marriage and is Mrs Hugh van Cutsem Jnr now. She is not titled at all.

Edward & Tamara declined the offer of the house and took out a mortgage for a different residence (not on the Westminster estate).
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  #37  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:26 PM
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Rose Nancy Langhorne Astor is the daughter of David Waldorf Astor (the eldest son of the 3rd son of the 2nd Viscount Astor) and Clare St John. Neither she, nor her three elder siblings, nor either of her parents are titled. Her grandfather was/is The Honourable Michael Astor, but that doesn't pass down.
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  #38  
Old 04-06-2006, 12:14 PM
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She is still as blue-blooded as one could get..title or no title. The name Astor evokes it in both the U.S. and in Great Britain.

Bottom line, both these boys made great financial catches. Pity these ladies did not marry someone up to a more higher and classier standard. But, I guess love is blind.
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  #39  
Old 04-06-2006, 12:20 PM
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The name Van Cutsem sounds so Flemish? Is this family originally from Belgium or Holland maybe? If so how come they became British?
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  #40  
Old 04-06-2006, 01:47 PM
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They come from Belgium and immigrated in the late 1800s. Most of the family still lives in Belgium.
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