The Windsors and Europe


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I disagree - she did break protocol - the Queen does not normally attend funerals other than for immediate family so attending King Baudouin's funeral was out of the ordinary. What is extraordinary is that she interrupted her holiday to do so - she wasn't going to for the mother of her grandchildren until she bowed to public pressure.

There is no real protocol in these matters. For an example it is often assumed that Queen Elisabeth or Prince Philip never attend weddings overseas. They did attend a grand royal wedding in The Hague: that of Prince Carl von Hessen with Lady Yvonne Margit Valerie Countess Szapáry von Muraszombath, Széchysziget und Szapár (maternal family of the later Princess Michael...): http://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=urn:gvn:ANP01:12982174&size=large

The Queen would also attend the Silver Wedding of Queen Juliana and Prince Bernhard in Amsterdam: http://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=urn:gvn:KONB05:53A27-11-P098-3&size=large

With other words: there seems not to be a standing protocol.

:flowers:
 
I think no one expected Queen Elisabeth II to attend the funeral. The TRF members thought that a member of the royal family would be sent by Her Majesty to represent her.

I was responding to the comment that the Queen attended Kung Baudouin's funeral because it was her summer holiday.

It has been my observations that relations between the British royal family and the continental royals are just polite.

I think there are friendships - Queen Margrethe and Princess Beatrix are always greeted very warmly, Queen Margrethe took part in a documentary recently speaking about the Queen. Apparently King Constantine and Queen Anne-Marie maintained regular contact when they were based in London. But yes, they don't pop over to stay on a regular basis.
 
Very interesting thread, after reading all the comments, I also think that the BRF should of sent someone within the family. After all, this is a group of people that are interconnected through many marriages, history for many decades and more. Wouldn't it be common courtesy and manners to send someone. This group *the royals of the world* should know each other, at least on a first name basis so that they can interact with each other at events, these people are in a click (can't think of any other word for it) all by themselves for the most part, regardless if you haven't spoken to someone for years or not, being royal means there should be a certain amount of grace, manners, decorum and courtesy. To not have someone attend from the BRF is a disgrace to the Belgium royal family and it shows a lack or respect and manners by the BRF.
 
I have read this thread and have been somewhat amused by the outrage expressed here. Really! Of all the issues in the world everyone here is outraged that a family did not attend the funeral of a member of another family. Have we all, myself included, nothing better to do than share our beliefs that anyone in a royal family owes us, most of whom are not even members of the countries these royal families are from, an explanation as to why or why they did not attend Queen Fabiola's funeral.

Shaking my head and hearing my brain rattle around inside.

And to those who want to boycott a royal family, knock yourself out. You aren't hurting anyone, especially the family you want to boycott.
 
https://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/2664690.html#comments

This post claims that the British royals could not attend the funeral due to political problems. I wonder what these political problems might be. How serious is the disagreement between the UK and EU?

I was wondering if the UK/EU disagreements had anything to do with this matter. The Palace would have to come up with a tactful reason instead of just being able to say the FO said no. Politicians can be really stupid at times and create more problems just because they are trying to make a point. Wasn't there a situation around one of QEII's jubilees where the Spanish government wouldn't let Queen Sofia go to the luncheon because Edward and Sophie were going to Gibraltar as part of the jubilee celebration?
 
Relations between the BRF and other royal families

Since no representative from the BRF attended Queen Fabiolas funeral and usually at weddings HM is represented by the Wessexes.

There is a discussion that the BRF snub or consider other royals less important.

I would like to know how the relations between the British royals and the others are.

I'm aware that queen Margarethe and HM are close.
Also the Greek royal family.

What about others?

And apologies if this is the wrong place to post this.


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The simple answer is 'we don't know'.


We do know that after WWI George V turned the BRF away from Europe to look internally within Britain and to focus on the empire so while the other royal families were continuing their pre-war connections the BRF moved in a different direction.
 
One thing that has struck me today is that I do not recall any other royal funeral, or indeed wedding, coronation, baptism etc where such debate over royal non-attendance from anywhere has taken place. Surely there must have been another event where another country only sent their ambassador, but we never heard about it because it didn't involve the British royal family.

Looking on a slightly more positive side, perhaps the feelings raised today in this thread are testimony to the affection people feel towards Queen Fabiola and the high regard they have for her.
 
I think it's quite bad for the BRF to not send anyone but if they are going to use the "political issues" excuse then so be it. It's quite bad to see no one attend considering the amount of royals who came to the Queen Mother's funeral.

As Majesty Magazine said, out of the 15 working British royals only two had engagements...what were the other 13 doing?

I am not surprised it didn't go unnoticed rominet09 and it will likely be mentioned many times in the future as poor show on the British part.
 
I think it's quite bad for the BRF to not send anyone but if they are going to use the "political issues" excuse then so be it. It's quite bad to see no one attend considering the amount of royals who came to the Queen Mother's funeral.

As Majesty Magazine said, out of the 15 working British royals only two had engagements...what were the other 13 doing?

I am not surprised it didn't go unnoticed rominet09 and it will likely be mentioned many times in the future as poor show on the British part.

When the Court Circular for the 12th December we will have a better idea of what they were doing. The FE section of the British monarchy website identified 2 with engagements but...that rarely tells the whole story upfront. Any meetings, receptions etc aren't listed in advance or many of The Queen's other engagements. Not even all the public events are listed in advance there either.
 
There is no real protocol in these matters. For an example it is often assumed that Queen Elisabeth or Prince Philip never attend weddings overseas. They did attend a grand royal wedding in The Hague: that of Prince Carl von Hessen with Lady Yvonne Margit Valerie Countess Szapáry von Muraszombath, Széchysziget und Szapár (maternal family of the later Princess Michael...): http://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=urn:gvn:ANP01:12982174&size=large

Judging from the photo, it looks as if only Prince Philip attended his nephew's wedding in 1966. The younger lady sitting next to the Duke of Edinburgh is not his wife, but instead his sister Princess Georg Wilhelm of Hannover, the mother of the groom.
 
Still, I have to agree with the disapproving group...it was a very poor show indeed.
 
The Queen sent her Ambassador - who represents the British State, whose Her Majesty is the Head. And Buckingham Palace gave an explanation to why no one from the British Royal Family attended.

But some people here just want to be right about their imaginary truth and have a reason to bash the Windsors. This whole thread is ridiculous and very unnecessary.
 
The Queen sent her Ambassador - who represents the British State, whose Her Majesty is the Head.


To be fair, if sending an Ambassador is sufficient than none of the other foreign royals should've shown up, they could've all sent their ambassadors.
 
To be fair, if sending an Ambassador is sufficient than none of the other foreign royals should've shown up, they could've all sent their ambassadors.

It's not a question of fairness. No one from the BRF was available, so the Queen sent her Ambassador.

The other royal families happened to be able to attend.
 
No, because all the other royals know that good manners and politesse still have a profound meaning for them.

:flowers:


I have been saying this for many years. I am a great fan of the British people, adore their droll humor and "get on with it" approach to life.

But when it comes to manners, sophistication and elegance the difference between the Windsors and their royal peers is shocking at times. As much as I would enjoy seeing the other Royal houses start snubbing Windsor weddings, funerals and jubilees, it simply won't happen for the precise reason you stated
 
I have been saying this for many years. I am a great fan of the British people, adore their droll humor and "get on with it" approach to life.

But when it comes to manners, sophistication and elegance the difference between the Windsors and their royal peers is shocking at times. As much as I would enjoy seeing the other Royal houses start snubbing Windsor weddings, funerals and jubilees, it simply won't happen for the precise reason you stated

I must admit, I'm not one who has strong feelings either way, but I'm not so sure why it's so horrible (or particularly important) that the BRF have, in recent years, been less involved with the other royal families. I mean, I think it would be nice to see more interaction (but only because I'm a royal watcher), but that just doesn't seem to be a priority for the BRF at all. Frankly, I'm almost more surprised when members of the BRF do turn up at other royal families' events than when they don't. I realize, of course, that a funeral is an especially sensitive event, but it doesn't surprise me in the least bit. And a lot of the reason their absence is noted is because, obviously, the BRF receives so much media attention. If other royal families want to stop turning up at BRF events, how many people (not including those of us who are royal watchers) would really notice?

For whatever reason, the BRF mostly seem focused on their own extended family, and have drifted away from the royal families on the continent. But it's the 21st century and royal families have evolved in different ways - in the grand scheme of things, who does this kind of change really effect? It doesn't really alter the way each royal family goes about their business.
 
A Papal Nuncio is the same level as an ambassador, both in international law and diplomatic practice as well as symbolism. There is no difference really in sending an ambassador and the Nuncio.
I don't agree being represented by the Ambassador was not a high level for the Brits. She is Her Majesty's representative to the King of Belgium at the highest possible diplomatic level. She represents her Queen (and her government) and her country in Belgium and, at least formally, she was far more important than anyone besides the Queen, DoE and the PoW would be, IMO. So the Pope's representation was quite the same as the Queen's.

Of course, there is also the symbolic part of this occassion and there are some historical bonds and links between all the Royal Families of Europe and the British and Belgian ones share common male-line ancestor. But hey, how many generations back it is? Anyway, the Windsors don't seem to be quite close to any of their counterparts in Europe anymore. It's not the 19th and early 20th century anymore. QEII is not like Victoria managing her offspring to mix as much as possible with other royals. The 1st world war seems to be a serious milestone in the British Royals' relations to their continental (still very close then) cousins. It's not that kind of a monarchy and royal family anymore.

As for the FCO's role in this, I think they've asked the Palace before they decided to send the Ambassador.
 
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British royal non-attendance of Fabiola's funeral

I don't know if it's a continental or a royal thing but I've never heard of such a thing as being invited to a funeral. In Scandinavia if you want a private funeral you put a notice in the paper that a death has occurred and that a private service has already taken place and if it's a public funeral you do the same but put down place and time for the service instead. I understand it works a bit different in royal circles but it can't be all that different can it?


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Were any other ambassadors rathern than the British and Papal ones attending the funeral? It was not a state occassion, so I'm not sure they were...
 
British royal non-attendance of Fabiola's funeral

It's not a question of fairness. No one from the BRF was available, so the Queen sent her Ambassador.



The other royal families happened to be able to attend.


It's a question of duty and a question of priority. All the royals who attended the funeral mass were unable to attend and had other things scheduled bur they rescheduled their agenda. If the other monarchies can do that, the much larger british rf can do it too. That's why i don't belive that they have said that no one was available because you can't excuse this with scheduling conflicts. Death usually never comes scheduled.

My opinion is (though i don't expert it to happen) that the british royal family should say the truth about why they with the largest royal family couldn't even send one single member. Is there maybe a political reason behind the desicion and the government advised the royal family to not attend ? Then tell us !

If not this gives a green light for other royals to send their ambassadors in London to the future funerals of QEII and The Duke of Esinburgh because of "scheduling conflicts".
 
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It's not a question of fairness. No one from the BRF was available, so the Queen sent her Ambassador.

The other royal families happened to be able to attend.

They rescheduled their agendas to attend, something the all mighty Windsors were unwilling to do.
 
The Windsors march to their own drum. This was, obviously not important enough to reschedule a ribbon cutting. All those people busy on the same day. Yes, an Ambassador is a representative, but as someone else has stated then they could all send Ambassadors. The Empress of Japan came a very long way, out of respect.
 
No need to nitpick, it was very bad form and noticed by all that nobody came from the BRF. Royal families are a dying breed and need to support each other to maintain their existance and relevance. The BRF knows this more than most, they have done what it takes to continue to exist over the centuries.
BTW QElizII may have sent Rainier a private note for Grace's funeral, but Diana also famously attended, three months after the birth of P William.
 
I don't know how much validity to this rumour but I heard from a few people on various royal boards that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London blocked Prince Philip from attending the funeral because it was in Brussels where the HQ of the EU is. At the moment the UK government is not on good terms with the EU with serious talk of the UK leaving it. No senior member of the royal family can officially represent the UK abroad with out the FCO approval....just a rumour.
 
I don't know how much validity to this rumour but I heard from a few people on various royal boards that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London blocked Prince Philip from attending the funeral because it was in Brussels where the HQ of the EU is. At the moment the UK government is not on good terms with the EU with serious talk of the UK leaving it. No senior member of the royal family can officially represent the UK abroad with out the FCO approval....just a rumour.

This may be major thinking outside of the box but what if intelligence had some inkling or scuttlebutt that perhaps there was a security threat? The Ambassador from the UK to Belgium is already in Belgium right? This thought passed through my mind when hearing of the complications affecting Heathrow airport. There's a lot that is known that doesn't reach the public's ears.

Just a thought.
 
Very few people in the world are as busy and have as many commitments as the Pope, but even he managed to send a nuncio to Brussels to represent him.In comparison the idea that each and every member of the House of Windsor was simpy too "busy" and had events that could not be rescheduled strikes me as just beyond ridiculous. They are, according to their enthusiastic fans at least, THE most significant and senior of the Royal houses and are supposed to set the standard for classy behavior. That is not the case here.

The fact that I admire HM QEII as much as I do makes this rare misstep on her part even more baffling.

This is not a post to bash the BRF. I have had QEII and the DoE on a pedestal since I was a child. But frankly I think they botched this one big time, and yes...it does change the way I think of them just a little.:ermm:


Saying this was "botched" IMO is one huge understatement. This isn't like Prince Albert not coming because first, the Twins aren't that old & Charlene is recovering from a Caesarean Section, which is a big operation even though it's thought of as a routine one in this day and age. Second, and I haven't made into it the thread for the Twins yet today, but it sounds like today their births were officially registered and that's something only Albert can do, so he was exactly where he needed to be today. Knowing her love of children, I am as sure as sure can be that Queen Fabiola was looking down on these new additions and smiling.

However, that reason for his absence is understandable. Out of all the Members of the BrRF, only 3 or 4 had Engagements today, so AFAIC that statement from the BP Press Office there were long standing Engagements keeping someone from the BrRF from attending? Yet another stupid mis step on behalf of that Office that has made things worse and whomever it was who thought that would work in the day of the Internet and Social Media needs a major wake up call.

Buckingham Palace have provided an explanation - no-one was available. Apart from the Ambassador whose job it is to represent Her Majesty's Government at such occasions.


There's a term for that. It's called Covering Your Tail & considering there were postings by people this week wondering who was coming from the BrRF up to yesterday because they had checked who did and who did not have an Engagement today. Which is easy to do these days and the fact they thought this poor sad excuse, which it is BTW, would be enough to cover the colossal blunder this is, then something is *very* wrong in the Press Office at BP.

No need to nitpick, it was very bad form and noticed by all that nobody came from the BRF. Royal families are a dying breed and need to support each other to maintain their existance and relevance. The BRF knows this more than most, they have done what it takes to continue to exist over the centuries.
BTW QElizII may have sent Rainier a private note for Grace's funeral, but Diana also famously attended, three months after the birth of P William.


IIRC, didn't Diana insist on going? I remember reading somewhere the reason being the night of Diana's first Evening Engagement where she wore that famous neckline plunging black sleeveless gown. It was to a Charity Fundraising Poetry Reading of Grace's & at one point Diana was so upset over what had almost happened when she got out of the car, Grace took Diana aside & let her both cry on her shoulder & also gave Diana some advice too. She never forgot that kindness & due to that insisted on representing the BrRF at Grace's Funeral.

Now that could just be a story, but it's the one I've heard/read over the years.

Now...About today...I am both shocked and stunned no one from the Windsors attended the Funeral of Queen Fabiola. As I said up post, this was not a day full of Engagements for the majority of the BrRF, so the "too busy" excuse does not fly here. If the rumour is true about the Foreign Office not wanting the EU President & a member of the BrRF at the same event is true, then that should have been said & the furor over all this would not be as vocal or intense as it is right now.

This was bungled and botched and...W/out a doubt something that should never have happened. Someone of the Senior British Royal Family *should* have been there & it is a slap in the face to the BeRF. Intentional or not.


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