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  #921  
Old 10-16-2017, 06:46 PM
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Relationship between British and Continental Royals

In the Royal Family Order thread a discussion started about the relationship between the British royals and their counterparts on the continent. I couldn't find a thread on this topic, so that's why I started this one - feel free to merge if it already exists and I just missed it.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Kate did quite well with HGD Stephanie earlier this year ...so I think they all rub along well enough but since the war things changed so much...and that includes the relationships between the monarchies.

LaRae
Interesting idea. Can you elaborate on that? I assume you refer to WWI? It clearly affected the relationship with the German nobility but there wasn't really a reason to also impact the relationship with the other European royal families, I would say?! So, why was that response so strong? In WWII some even sought shelter in the UK (queen Wilhelmina for example). However, it seems that foreign royal brides or bridegrooms were indeed less sought after - with 'British subjects' being preferred over foreigners...
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  #922  
Old 10-16-2017, 06:49 PM
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Indeed, I suppose that what may have been meant is that after WWII the trend that royals marry other royals has stopped. In Britain that was already the case since WWI (save two exceptions). So the family ties will be less close, which perhaps could result in a relationship that is less close.
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  #923  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:08 PM
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I think it is more WWII as I think the reverberations from that would be more recent.
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  #924  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:13 PM
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Yes that's the main gist of what I mean thanks Marengo!

Somebody...to add to that, monarchies collapsed and a whole way of life changed for many of the Royal families. While all of the European royals (except maybe one I think) are related but you have to go pretty far back at this point to find a close tie. They don't socialize as they did when Monarchies spent more of their lives in pursuits of pleasures and rich man sports. Much more of their time has to be spent doing actual work/charitable work to balance out the pleasure part.

For England specifically ...Downton Abbey really does show the turning point of lifestyle. After WW1 there was already a shift ...WW2 finalized it.


LaRae
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  #925  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:15 PM
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Thanks for merging! (although it seems a few posts got lost in the process)

@scriptgirl, at first I also thought about WWII (as that one is always more on my mind as our country was neutral in WWI) but given that the more drastic measures (change of name!) were taken because of WWI, and the queen's mother already was a British subject and not a foreign princess, it seems that this process started earlier. WWII might have further solidified this process; although the queen still married her foreign prince - who had to renounce his claims and titles.
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  #926  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:16 PM
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Just think of the reach Queen Victoria had...I don't think there was hardly a royal house of Europe not married to one of her children or grandchildren.

That isn't going to ever happen again.


LaRae
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  #927  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Yes that's the main gist of what I mean thanks Marengo!

Somebody...to add to that, monarchies collapsed and a whole way of life changed for many of the Royal families. While all of the European royals (except maybe one I think) are related but you have to go pretty far back at this point to find a close tie. They don't socialize as they did when Monarchies spent more of their lives in pursuits of pleasures and rich man sports. Much more of their time has to be spent doing actual work/charitable work to balance out the pleasure part.

For England specifically ...Downton Abbey really does show the turning point of lifestyle. After WW1 there was already a shift ...WW2 finalized it.

LaRae
Thanks for clarifying.

However, you don't have to go that far back for the royals to be related at the moment: the king of Belgium and grand duke of Luxembourg are cousins; the queen of Denmark and king of Sweden are cousins. The former king and queen of Spain are brother-in-law and sister(-in-law) of the former Greek king and queen (the one being the sister of the queen of Denmark).

However, the trend is clear, nonetheless, most of the 'continental royals' (especially the Scandinavians and more in general the (former) crown princely couples still have (rather) close relationships with each other - just no longer the expectation that they marry each other
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  #928  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Thanks for merging! (although it seems a few posts got lost in the process)

@scriptgirl, at first I also thought about WWII (as that one is always more on my mind as our country was neutral in WWI) but given that the more drastic measures (change of name!) were taken because of WWI, and the queen's mother already was a British subject and not a foreign princess, it seems that this process started earlier. WWII might have further solidified this process; although the queen still married her foreign prince - who had to renounce his claims and titles.
I read once that the Queen Mother discouraged the BRF from mixing with European royals. Not sure why, but the story goes that a major European royal slighted her and that was part of the reason.

I have always found the BRF to be very insular and to be honest, it seems that Will and Kate and Harry, seem to be carrying that on.
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  #929  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:07 PM
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I think after World War I King George V looked at a very different world and accepted that if and when his children were to marry it would be fine if they married British Aristocrats, which three of them did.

And that's great, however I do like the closeness of the Scandi monarchies to each other, the way that until quite recent times they married into each other's Houses. To me they seem great friends as well as fellow royals. The same with other Continental royals as well, such as the Belgians/Luxembourgs.

So, in a way, to me it's sad that the BRF no longer appears to be part of the 'Royal mob' in that way. Also, I do know why it happened (age disparities of the Queen and Charles who are very much older than other monarchs and their heirs) but this has meant that, until Edward and Sophie became regulars, no-one much from the BRF attended heirs' 21st birthday parties or other Continental or Scandi family celebrations. It gives the impression to some of the public that the BRF believe themselves better than others. It's erroneous but that impression is out there.

I did hope actually, though Sophie did a great job, that some other members of the BRF would turn up to King Harald's 80th birthday celebrations. Other monarchs and spouses and heirs were there. I wish Charles/Camilla had thought it important enough to pencil in. After all, the NRF and BRF are quite close.

Queen Fabiola's funeral was another occasion when the BRF looked rather rude, in my estimation. Other royals turned up.

Charles's marital situation in the 1990s came into play there too as far as attending things. I hope to see some closer relations in the future actually, with younger royals like William, Kate and Harry making some visits to European and Scandinavian monarchies, building some bridges, some friendly relationships.
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  #930  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:16 PM
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Good points Curryong and I do agree that the age difference between the Queen and DoE left them a bit out of synch with their European counterparts. Charles and Diana might have been able to establish new bonds with their European peers, but he was much older than most of them. IMO we've seen this happen with Edward and Sophie establishing relationships with those that they're close in age/stage with in life: Fred/Mary, Haakon/MM, W-A/Maxima, Felipe/Letizia etc..

William, Catherine and Harry are closer in age/stage with Victoria/Daniel and Guillaume/Stephanie IMHO. We've already seen the Cambridges being dispatched to events associated with WWI and now there are Scandinavian trips planned for the trio. I believe that it will help to reestablish some old ties.
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  #931  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:18 PM
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I don't think friendly relationships will be built among younger BRF family members. I think they are very English and don't think of themselves as global or continental citizens. I feel this is partly due to England being an island and isoated from the rest of Europe.

I still remember the WWII event that the Cambridges and King Felipe attended and the Cambridges ignored Felipe. Kate at one point seemed to ask an aide as to who he was and she William seemed to confer on greeting him and they didn't. Maybe they did later, but I never saw pics of it.
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  #932  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Thanks for clarifying.

However, you don't have to go that far back for the royals to be related at the moment: the king of Belgium and grand duke of Luxembourg are cousins; the queen of Denmark and king of Sweden are cousins. The former king and queen of Spain are brother-in-law and sister(-in-law) of the former Greek king and queen (the one being the sister of the queen of Denmark).

However, the trend is clear, nonetheless, most of the 'continental royals' (especially the Scandinavians and more in general the (former) crown princely couples still have (rather) close relationships with each other - just no longer the expectation that they marry each other

I'm speaking more of the relative tie between the BRF and the rest of the European houses not certain groupings. I clarified more in the other post about Queen Victoria.


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  #933  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scriptgirl View Post
I don't think friendly relationships will be built among younger BRF family members. I think they are very English and don't think of themselves as global or continental citizens. I feel this is partly due to England being an island and isoated from the rest of Europe.

I still remember the WWII event that the Cambridges and King Felipe attended and the Cambridges ignored Felipe. Kate at one point seemed to ask an aide as to who he was and she William seemed to confer on greeting him and they didn't. Maybe they did later, but I never saw pics of it.
At the time it was said they had already greeted him prior to that situation.

There are ties already being built with the younger core group ...just look at the trips they have been taking (and still scheduled to take) this year.

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  #934  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
At the time it was said they had already greeted him prior to that situation.
Yes there are photos showing them greeting HM the King. Kate is curtsying to him.
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  #935  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:35 PM
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Pranter do you have links to any articles that say the Cambridges already greeted Felipe? Cause it didn't seem like it from the footage and pics I saw.
But I also heard Felipe didn't go out of his way to greet the Cambridges.
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  #936  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:37 PM
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Here is a couple of photos from that day. In one Kate is curtsying to HM. The second shows William and Felipe chatting together, while Kate is with Mathilde and Phillipe.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/2a/14/1c/2...ffbf6cd1f9.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...25_634x418.jpg
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  #937  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:41 PM
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Good. Glad to see a warm relationship there. The video I saw was off-putting.
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  #938  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:42 PM
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Yes that's the pics, thanks for posting them TLLK!


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  #939  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:42 PM
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Just use Google. There are pics all over the internet of Kate curtseying to the king and he and William talking one on one.
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  #940  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scriptgirl View Post
Good. Glad to see a warm relationship there. The video I saw was off-putting.
Sometimes pics/video are edited in a way you don't get the whole picture...sometimes not by accident.


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