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  #801  
Old 12-21-2014, 10:57 AM
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Like I said before, Marty91charmed, it's all perception - not fact. We perceive things differently. 😜
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  #802  
Old 12-21-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Florestane View Post
Like I said before, Marty91charmed, it's all perception - not fact. We perceive things differently. 😜
I know but I can't see how they can be justified sometimes
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  #803  
Old 12-21-2014, 11:51 AM
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Ah well, the British Royal family have a long history of not offering an explanation/justification - the old never explain, never complain... I guess we will never really know why they do the things they do.
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  #804  
Old 12-21-2014, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CSENYC View Post
The Windsors have met with the Obamas.


Thus the Windsors are willing to meet with people who are not royalty, and who do not have high-ranking lineages.
Are you implying what I think you are implying?
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  #805  
Old 12-21-2014, 12:24 PM
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Although there was no one from the House of Windsor that attended the funeral, the British Ambassador to Belgium did attend as a representative of the British Crown. To me, that meant that the UK and the Commonwealth were well represented to pay their respects.

It did surprise me though that none of the royal family attended but its not an international crisis.
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  #806  
Old 12-21-2014, 12:25 PM
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Mr. Obama is President of the United States. His linage is of no import. He outranks the rest of them, as do all Presidents. High ranking linage is a farce and has long died out in normal circumstances. The queen is a head of state, and does her part of the job, but it is mostly ceremonial. She doesn't run the government. She doesn't make the big decisions. Todays royalty are all show pieces. Their presidents, prime ministers etc. are the real workers.
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  #807  
Old 12-21-2014, 12:51 PM
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The label of being "isolationist" is not justified in my opinion. The British royal family has been represented at almost all major European royal events. The non-attendance of the Windsors at the funeral of a Queen from a neighbouring monarchy belonging to the same royal dynasty (House of Saxen-Coburg and Gotha), not even sending a wreath of flowers, was a painful gaffe.


It tells a lot about the workings of the biggest and most epensive royal household in the world: not efficient, amateurish, cloggy. When King Charles III assumes the throne, I hope a fresh swipe goes to the congested court organization.
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  #808  
Old 12-21-2014, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The label of being "isolationist" is not justified in my opinion. The British royal family has been represented at almost all major European royal events. The non-attendance of the Windsors at the funeral of a Queen from a neighbouring monarchy belonging to the same royal dynasty (House of Saxen-Coburg and Gotha), not even sending a wreath of flowers, was a painful gaffe.


It tells a lot about the workings of the biggest and most epensive royal household in the world: not efficient, amateurish, cloggy. When King Charles III assumes the throne, I hope a fresh swipe goes to the congested court organization.
To me their lack of attendance has been turned into a massive thing (its now being discussed in about 3 different threads on here for example) when to me at the worst it was a mistake and not indicative of their usually good relationships with the other Royal Houses in Europe. I mean its amazing how suddenly as they didn't attend they must hate the Belgian Royal Family or have some agenda against them of sorts as some suggested. This year King Philippe and Queen Mathilde have meet so many members of the British Royal Family - the Queen, Prince Philip, William, Harry, Kate.
I think IMO that judging them on not attending a sudden event with only 7 days notice at a busy time of year is unfair.
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  #809  
Old 12-21-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
She did that at Windsor when he was there on a state visit. That doesnt mean they were friends. She is always polite - that's it. No known further personal engagement.

What I have seen on this thread is the lingering animosity over the Fabiola debacle and and whole bunch of assumptions on the relationship between European royals/Heads of State and the BRF.

Frankly we can assume all we like but we KNOW very little.

I have assumed (no stronger) that relationships between BRF and NRF are strong because the K&Q of Norway spent time with Charles and Camilla at Sandringham (cant remember when but last 18 mths, reported on this Forum).

As for the rest of the speculation and surmise - we will never know. The monarchs concerned will ALWAYS give respect to other monarchs.
Thank you cepe, for pointing that out about HM riding with Reagan on his ranch. That took place within the context of a State visit.There is a persistent belief among some people here in the US, perhaps elsewhere-that there was a personal friendship between the two that went beyond their natural affinity for one another as heads-of-State of two nations with a "special relationship". Not true.

An example of a personal relationship between royals and a US leader would be the close friendship of the Norwegian RF with Franklin Roosevelt. During WWII he offered them personal asylum not only at the WH, but at his private Hyde Park estate in upstate NY. Former president Bill Clinton is quite friendly with Juan Carlos of Spain and the two former heads-of-state frequently socialize privately according to VF writer Ed Klein.

To my knowledge no private socializing/joint holidays took place between the Windsors and the Reagans.


Osipi
The British ambassador represented the GOVERNMENT of the UK at the funeral of Queen Fabiola, not the Windsors themselves. Most of the other European RF's and dynasties sent representatives of their families. That's what I-along with many others-find unacceptable. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the fact that they didn't even bother to send a wreath comes painfully close to a personal insult. Even Monaco managed at least that.

My personal opinion is that the BRF sent no one because they assumed it would be a "minor" event for a woman who was consort so long ago. They probably never dreamed that it would draw the elite and impressive international representation that it did.

And to everyone who believes that they(the British RF) have taken no notice of the uproar-I am willing to bet my house that they won't make the same gaffe when GD Jean of Luxembourg passes on.
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  #810  
Old 12-21-2014, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Mr. Obama is President of the United States. His linage is of no import. He outranks the rest of them, as do all Presidents. High ranking linage is a farce and has long died out in normal circumstances. The queen is a head of state, and does her part of the job, but it is mostly ceremonial. She doesn't run the government. She doesn't make the big decisions. Todays royalty are all show pieces. Their presidents, prime ministers etc. are the real workers.

Thank you COUNTESS, for pointing out the obvious.
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  #811  
Old 12-21-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
To me their lack of attendance has been turned into a massive thing (its now being discussed in about 3 different threads on here for example) when to me at the worst it was a mistake and not indicative of their usually good relationships with the other Royal Houses in Europe. I mean its amazing how suddenly as they didn't attend they must hate the Belgian Royal Family or have some agenda against them of sorts as some suggested. This year King Philippe and Queen Mathilde have meet so many members of the British Royal Family - the Queen, Prince Philip, William, Harry, Kate.
I think IMO that judging them on not attending a sudden event with only 7 days notice at a busy time of year is unfair.
Indeed. it's like some people were waiting for the first apparent flaw to bash the entire BRF. Imo the reactions have been quite violent, if not a bit over the top.
Seems a bit harsh but i think there was some case of "petit bourgois" syndrom from some members here, knowing royal behaviours and protocol better than the royals themselves and apparently eager to lern them one trick or two about good manners. That's funny and worrying at the same time...
The thing is : these royal circles are way above us and don't need our advises to know how to behave . If they act a certain way, it has to be this way. Period. Even if sometimes we don't get it at the first place....
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  #812  
Old 12-21-2014, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
The British ambassador represented the GOVERNMENT of the UK at the funeral of Queen Fabiola, not the Windsors themselves. Most of the other European RF's and dynasties sent representatives of their families. That's what I-along with many others-find unacceptable. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the fact that they didn't even bother to send a wreath comes painfully close to a personal insult. Even Monaco managed at least that.

My personal opinion is that the BRF sent no one because they assumed it would be a "minor" event for a woman who was consort so long ago. They probably never dreamed that it would draw the elite and impressive international representation that it did.

And to everyone who believes that they(the British RF) have taken no notice of the uproar-I am willing to bet my house that they won't make the same gaffe when GD Jean of Luxembourg passes on.
Ever hear the expression don't throw the baby out with the water? That's what you're doing here.

Prior to now when have the BRF failed to attend the wedding or a funeral of a member of another reigning royal family (provided it was a public one)? I would understand this huge reaction to the lack of a British presence at Fabiola's funeral if this was a reoccurring issue for them, but to the best of my knowledge they pretty much always send someone to the weddings and funerals of their European counterparts, provided that it's a public event.

Heck, QEII herself attended Baudouin's funeral. Actually, given as QEII seems to have had so much respect for Baudouin that she broke her rule of not attending funerals for non-family members it seems logical to assume that the lack of a British presence at his wife's funeral wasn't simply British arrogance or isolationism but caused by something more - personally, my first thought was that there's some serious health problems happening within the BRF (which is a possibility given as the Queen is almost 90 and the DoE 93) which caused people to stay at home instead.

We don't know why the BRF failed to attend the funeral, but I don't believe for an instant it's simply arrogance on their part - personally, I kind of think some of the people attacking them are being a bit arrogant in presuming to know the reasoning behind this behaviour without actually looking at past behaviour. Once again, if the BRF had a history of missing weddings and funerals then we could say it's arrogance on their part, but they don't. This is unusual behaviour for them, which indicates something went wrong.
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  #813  
Old 12-21-2014, 03:06 PM
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Ish,

I don't see how anything I posted could be construed as throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Unlike quite a few others here I have not posted that the BRF are arrogant, xenophobic and isolationist and always have been. THAT would be an excellent example of baby/bathwater.

My point is that they made a gaffe this time that borders on insult. Your recalling of the many occasions when they have done their duty and acted like a RF should only reinforces my point.
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  #814  
Old 12-21-2014, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
This is not about children or adults, it is about royal families and monarchies. Of-course, if you invite a friend round to dinner and they never show up (or worse still, they show up and never repay the compliment - of which both situations I have had the misfortune to experience), then indeed the relationship changes and you most likely do stop putting out a hand.

However, the situation with royal families is a different matter altogether because the private and professional elements of their lives merge in a very different way from the rest of us. A royal funeral or royal wedding is not simply a family or friend event, it is a state, semi-state or national event of a country and in such circumstances, personal feelings etc are diluted with protocols, conventions, traditions and political/constitutional requirements.
It reminds me work colleagues - you sit next to them all day, chat and gossip around the photocopier, have lunch/coffee together and attend meetings with them and even go on team-building events etc etc. But very rarely would you go to their mother's funeral or invite them round for Sunday lunch.

Queen Margarethe gave an interview a year or two ago in which she was asked how she thought the Duchess of Cambridge was coping with the media. HM initial response was that she would never comment on a colleagues professionalism (or words to that effect).

When I invite a friend round to dinner, they either come or they don't and if they don't come, they don't send someone else instead. When you are royal and invite another royal from a foreign country to an event, royal convention allows someone else to go instead - either a lower ranking royal or an ambassador for instance and frankly, it is not for us to question that because it is as it has always been.

Believe me, it would be great if members of the BRF spent more time with other royals, Queen Elizabeth out shopping in Copenhagen with Queen Margarethe - I'd be happier than ever to see that!

Now, whether or not the British Royal Family seem too snobbish to attend foreign events is a matter of differing opinions and not a matter of general fact - indeed, members of the BRF may have no inkling at all that some people may think they are snobs, they may also have no idea that they are the most "famous" royal family in the world because once you are "known" through out the world, (which they will be aware of), how much or well-known you are becomes insignificant. WE see them as the most famous royals in the world, but ask for instance a Dane to name someone who is royal, they will no doubt say Queen Margarethe or CP Frederik!

It is not a case of the BRF wanting to be isolationist if it is an inherent trait in themselves to be isolationist. Being perceived as being isolationist does not make one a snob. Whether they are or not is neither here to there, because the closeness, the friendliness and the bonds they have with other royal families is as it always has been.
Thank young or your comment and being respectful in it. I see what you are saying and I agree with some of if; my man problem is I don't like how it seems the BRF and the people around them treat other royal houses. I admit things can go on in private that we don't know about but in public some things they do seem condescending.
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  #815  
Old 12-21-2014, 06:08 PM
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Please note that all political posts regarding the role of former US Presidents have been deleted as off topic. The subject of this threads is the Windsors and Europe, not Presidents of the United States.

Any and all additional off topic posts will be deleted.

Let's stay on topic.
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  #816  
Old 12-21-2014, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post

Osipi
The British ambassador represented the GOVERNMENT of the UK at the funeral of Queen Fabiola, not the Windsors themselves. Most of the other European RF's and dynasties sent representatives of their families. That's what I-along with many others-find unacceptable. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the fact that they didn't even bother to send a wreath comes painfully close to a personal insult. Even Monaco managed at least that.

My personal opinion is that the BRF sent no one because they assumed it would be a "minor" event for a woman who was consort so long ago. They probably never dreamed that it would draw the elite and impressive international representation that it did.

And to everyone who believes that they(the British RF) have taken no notice of the uproar-I am willing to bet my house that they won't make the same gaffe when GD Jean of Luxembourg passes on.


The old GD was a head of state and not a Queen consort who wasn´t more than 20 years ago. I´m also convinced that someone would attend the GD´s funeral, but they also did so when Jean´s wife died. So that prooves nothing!
To your remark that the Windors assumed this was a minor event, why was there a representative at Prince Bernhard´s (in his royal rank below Fabiola - he was a Royal Highness, she a Majesty) funeral?!

The Ex-King and Queen of Greece attended both Juliana´s and her husband´s funeral, while they also didn´t this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Neither Edward nor William will be available for Carl Philip's wedding though.

The wedding is set for the 13th June I believe - the same day as Trooping the Colour.

As both Edward and William are colonels of Household Division Regiments they will be expected at the Trooping.



Besides that attending a wedding of someone who´s not one of his closest friends is not William´s "cup of tea", there´s always a charity-Polomatch in the afternoon after Trooping the colour! Even without his grandmother´s birthday parade, he´d never skip that for a royal wedding!
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  #817  
Old 12-22-2014, 11:15 AM
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Ish,

I don't see how anything I posted could be construed as throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Unlike quite a few others here I have not posted that the BRF are arrogant, xenophobic and isolationist and always have been. THAT would be an excellent example of baby/bathwater.

My point is that they made a gaffe this time that borders on insult. Your recalling of the many occasions when they have done their duty and acted like a RF should only reinforces my point.
I apologize if I've misread your post here, and I do have to say that I think I was misremembering a few other posts that have been made here by others as being yours - for which I definitely apologize. You certainly haven't accursed them of being such things.

I would say that your statement of "My personal opinion is that the BRF sent no one because they assumed it would be a "minor" event for a woman who was consort so long ago. They probably never dreamed that it would draw the elite and impressive international representation that it did" is a tad baby/bathwater though, as there's no evidence to believe that they actually thought such a thing - and I personally don't buy that the Queen at least (nor her children, none of whom have ever struck me as being particularly isolationist) would take such an attitude. After all, the Queen's mother had a large funeral, with representatives from the 9 other European RFs (including 7 reigning monarchs, 6 consorts to reigning monarchs, 2 CPs, and 1 former monarch and his consort), as well as several representatives from non-reigning families, despite having been a consort to a king who had died some 50 years earlier. Not to mention the fact that this is a woman who still refers to Constantine II of Greece as "the King" despite his not having ruled for almost 40 years. QEII has a long memory, and doesn't usually underestimate something like this.

The fact that it's so unusual is what had me thinking that the Queen was sick at first - that there was a serious illness that had developed while the Cambridges were in the US or after, and so the BRF was wanting to keep everyone close at home just in case something happened. Since we've seen her out and about since then, and we've seen the DoE out and about as well, I'm no longer thinking that's the case, but the idea that there was a mixup within the family or with the Foreign Office also makes sense - someone slipped up and didn't realize that it was their job to make sure that the arrangements were made to ensure that someone got on a plane and went to a funeral. I don't think this was an intentional slighting; I don't buy for a moment that QEII intentionally failed to send any member of her family to this funeral unless either she or her husband were seriously ill and we just weren't being told about it. I do buy that someone made a mistake and the BRF isn't transparent enough in their workings to simply admit it.
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  #818  
Old 12-22-2014, 11:44 AM
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The official comment was, I believe, that there was no one to send. As far as I can tell, the Duchess of Cornwall available to go.
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  #819  
Old 12-22-2014, 12:16 PM
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I have read in Norwegian newspapers from 1991 that The Queen or the then 90 year old Queen Mother was close to attending the funeral of King Olav V, but they didn't because of the gulf war. That was confirmed by Buckingham Palace.
Prince Charles attended the funeral on behalf of The Queen.
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Old 12-22-2014, 01:37 PM
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[/quote ] I don't buy for a moment that QEII intentionally failed to send any member of her family to this funeral unless either she or her husband were seriously ill and we just weren't being told about it. I do buy that [B]someone made a mistake and the BRF isn't transparent enough in their workings to simply admit it.[/ quote]

Ish,

This is something I agree with 100%...I think you nailed it in fact!
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