The Windsors and Europe


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We may assume King Charles has phoned the widowed Queen of the Hellenes and probably also Crown Prince Pavlos.
 
Hans-Rickard said:
A service of thanksgiving in London would be a good idea.

As Constantine and Anne-Marie lived in London for 40 years, they must have many friends there who were not able to go to Athens for the funeral…

So i think its even likely that something will be done there
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The orthodox church knows a special remebrance on the 40. day after death, it's not necessary to make it a big thing because it's common,
but yes maybe they'll use it for friends and family in the UK.
 
JR76 said:
All the funeral guests that belong to ruling houses (except Liechtenstein I think?) comes from countries that are just as involved in the war in Ukraine as the UK is. The 1000 policemen around the cathedral plus an assumed amount of private security was enough for the Queen of Denmark, the Kings of Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and their wives, the Grand Duke of Luxembourg, the Prince of Monaco, the former Queen of Jordan, the former Queen of the Netherlands & the former Empress of Iran.

Anne, Tim & Ella are fine representatives for their country and their family, but it's been obvious for many years that the Windsors work differently than the rest of the Royal families. I find their way of doing things quite disgraceful, but the other royals seem to accept it and so should we. It's not as if I'll ever get invited anyway [emoji23]
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Of course Liechtenstein was represented by Princess Margaretha,
she walked along Prince Henry of Luxembourg.
 
Nico said:
Again the senior royals can't do whatever they want. The Foreign Office must be consulted and apparently the Wales were advised to stay at home.
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What is the source of your information about the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office vetoing the Prince and Princess of Wales' attendance at his godfather's funeral? In the case of the funeral of Queen Fabiola of Belgium in 2014 (which no member of the British royal family attended), the Office confirmed that the decision on attendance was made by the British royal family.


SirGyamfi1 said:
Anyways, most of the continental royals like Luxembourg, Belgium and Liechtenstein share very close ties so that’s why they are close, they aren’t close because they are royals but simply because they are connected immediately by blood, marriage and geography whereas the British royals don’t share this.
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While there are certainly specific royal families which share close ties of blood, marriage, or geography, it cannot be generalized to most of the continental royals having closer blood, marital, and geographical ties to one another than to the British royals. To cite just a couple of examples, the Swedish royals are closer related by blood and marriage to the British royals than to the Liechtenstein royals. And Britain is geographically much closer to the Netherlands and Belgium than Norway is.


royalistbert said:
Izzie said:
The spinning and excuses on Twitter right now about why Charles and Will didn't show up ranges from absurd to comical to asinine to an agenda driven attempt at inept deflection. This type of action is just par for the course for the BRF. Now even the Greek police and security is getting "blamed". SMDH.
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Maybe because they can't drop everything at the hat like others. :whistling:
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Assuming that you are referring to the British royal family, not Twitter commenters or the Greek police: What leads you believe that other royal families can "drop everything at the hat" and the British royal family is the one exception?


SirGyamfi1 said:
Not everyone in royal circles is fussed or obsessed with going to other royal events.
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Perhaps the members of royal circles who attend royal events do so out of familial, friendly, and/or diplomatic relationships and not because they are "fussed or obsessed with going to other royal events".


muriel said:
I have long held a theory of why senior members of the BRF only very rarely appear at large gatherings of royals. It dates back to WW1, and the next 2 decades or so. Many European royals were seen as living the good life, perhaps at the expense of their subjects, and eventually quite a lot of the RFs lost their thrones.

Since then, the BRF have been very careful for very senior royals (typically the monarch and the heir) to not appear at these large gatherings and maintain their distance in public. Privately, they maintain good personal relationships and meet their counterparts outside the public gaze.
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While caution around publicly associating with people perceived as living "the good life" at the expense of their subjects is prudent (though it did not dissuade Queen Elizabeth II from her public friendship with the ruler of Dubai), I very much doubt that it pertains to the other European monarchies of today, in the eyes of the British public. To be more specific, any British person in 2023 who perceives (say) the Danish or Spanish royal families as living the good life at the expense of their subjects almost certainly already perceives the British royal family as the same, and probably even more so. Thus, the British royals have nothing to lose, in the court of public opinion, from associating with those royals.
 
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Maybe it has been discussed in the previous years. Why are the Windsors/QEII never awarding an order to foreign Queen Consorts? Prince Philip has always been granted all the highest orders during State Visits.
 
JGio said:
Maybe it has been discussed in the previous years. Why are the Windsors/QEII never awarding an order to foreign Queen Consorts? Prince Philip has always been granted all the highest orders during State Visits.
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Queen Elizabeth II awarded British orders (specifically the Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order) to foreign Princes Consort (Claus, Henrik), who held the same rank as Prince Philip, and to foreign heirs (Albert, Harald, Felipe).
 
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Mbruno said:
Queen Elizabeth II awarded British orders (specifically the Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order) to foreign Princes Consort (Claus, Henrik), who held the same rank as Prince Philip, and to foreign heirs (Albert, Harald, Felipe).
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I am trying to recall which European Royals were installed in to the Order of the Garter a few years ago.
 
Hallo girl said:
I am trying to recall which European Royals were installed in to the Order of the Garter a few years ago.
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All foreign royals who are Knights/Ladies of the Garter are either reigning monarchs or former monarchs who have abdicated. I don't expect that rule to change under King Charles III.


The current Stranger (i.e., foreign) Knights/Ladies of the Garter are:



  1. Margrethe II, Queen of Denmark (1979)
  2. Carl XVI Gustaf, King of Sweden (1983)
  3. Juan Carlos, King Emeritus of Spain (1988 , former King of Spain as Juan Carlos I)
  4. Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands (1989, former Queen of the Netherlands)
  5. Akihito, Emperor Emeritus of Japan (1998, former Emperor of Japan)
  6. Harald V, King of Norway (2001)
  7. Felipe VI, King of Spain (2017)
  8. Willem-Alexander, King of the Netherlands (2018)
Note: Princess Beatrix, Emperor Emeritus Akihito, King Harald V and King Felipe VI were also previoulsy awarded the GCVO as heirs to their respective thrones, I believe.


Heraldry enthusiasts probably noticed the banners of arms of the Stranger Knights/Ladies mentioned above at the recent committal service of the late Queen Elizabeth II at St George's Chapel.
 
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Mbruno said:
All foreign royals who are Knights/Ladies of the Garter are either reigning monarchs or former monarchs who have abdicated. I don't expect that rule to change under King Charles III.


The current Stranger (i.e., foreign) Knights/Ladies of the Garter are:



  1. Margrethe II, Queen of Denmark (1979)
  2. Carl XVI Gustaf, King of Sweden (1983)
  3. Juan Carlos, King Emeritus of Spain (1988 , former King of Spain as Juan Carlos I)
  4. Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands (1989, former Queen of the Netherlands)
  5. Akihito, Emperor Emeritus of Japan (1998, former Emperor of Japan)
  6. Harald V, King of Norway (2001)
  7. Felipe VI, King of Spain (2017)
  8. Willem Alexander, King of the Netherlands (2018)
Note: Princess Beatrix, Emperor Emeritus Akihito, King Harald V and King Felipe VI were also previoulsy awarded the GCVO as heirs to their respective thrones, I believe.
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So, why are the Belgians (both Albert and Philip) excluded? Their predecessor king Baudouin (as well as earlier Belgian kings) was admitted (in 1963).

Of course, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and Monaco are also excluded but they aren't majesties. Nonetheless, grand duke Jean was a knight of the Garter (but none of the other grand dukes or grand duchesses).
 
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Somebody said:
So, why are the Belgians (both Albert and Philip) excluded?
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The order is normally awarded on state visits and there has been no Belgian state visit to the UK, or no British state visit to Belgium during the reigns of King Albert II or King Philippe.


I believe all Belgian monarchs prior to Albert II were Knights of the Garter, including King Baudouin.


King Albert II received the GCVO from Queen Elizabeth II as Prince of Liège (heir presumptive) during the Queen's state visit to Belgium in 1966, I think.


As I said, Queen Elizabeth II had a policy of giving the GCVO to Princes Consort and heirs, but she did not award any decorations to Queens Consort.
 
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All 4 European Heads of State currently excluded from the Garter are those to which there has not been a state visit - the last state visit involving Luxembourg was in 1976. It seems the late Queen at least, had a rule that the Garter was only awarded during a state visit (a good way to ensure the government couldn't later say it didn't support it I guess as the Garter is granted solely by the Sovereign) and none of those European monarchies / principalities have had a state visit. The only way we would know for sure that they wouldn't get the Garter is if they visited sometime and didn't get awarded it. In both Belgium and Luxembourg's cases history suggests they would get it.
 
Was the late King Constantine not a Knight of the Garter?
 
There was a period in the reign of Elizabeth II where she seemed to prefer giving the Garter on the second visit in either direction, with the Royal Victorian Chain (and, if not already possessed, the GCVO) being given the first time. But she gave the Garter to Kings Felipe and Willem-Alexander at the first opportunity, possibly because she knew at that stage in her life that she wouldn't be visiting them.
 
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I wonder if Prince Albert of Monaco will ever get a British Order?
 
Mbruno said:
Has there ever been a state visit from Monaco to the United Kingdom, or vice-versa?
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Certainly not in either direction by Elizabeth II.

Prior to Elizabeth II State Visits weren't that common. There were a few but the idea of one or two a year in and out was something that Elizabeth II really started.
 
Tatiana Maria said:
What is the source of your information about the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office vetoing the Prince and Princess of Wales' attendance at his godfather's funeral? In the case of the funeral of Queen Fabiola of Belgium in 2014 (which no member of the British royal family attended), the Office confirmed that the decision on attendance was made by the British royal family.




While there are certainly specific royal families which share close ties of blood, marriage, or geography, it cannot be generalized to most of the continental royals having closer blood, marital, and geographical ties to one another than to the British royals. To cite just a couple of examples, the Swedish royals are closer related by blood and marriage to the British royals than to the Liechtenstein royals. And Britain is geographically much closer to the Netherlands and Belgium than Norway is.




Assuming that you are referring to the British royal family, not Twitter commenters or the Greek police: What leads you believe that other royal families can "drop everything at the hat" and the British royal family is the one exception?




Perhaps the members of royal circles who attend royal events do so out of familial, friendly, and/or diplomatic relationships and not because they are "fussed or obsessed with going to other royal events".




While caution around publicly associating with people perceived as living "the good life" at the expense of their subjects is prudent (though it did not dissuade Queen Elizabeth II from her public friendship with the ruler of Dubai), I very much doubt that it pertains to the other European monarchies of today, in the eyes of the British public. To be more specific, any British person in 2023 who perceives (say) the Danish or Spanish royal families as living the good life at the expense of their subjects almost certainly already perceives the British royal family as the same, and probably even more so. Thus, the British royals have nothing to lose, in the court of public opinion, from associating with those royals.
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Well my point was that ties between the Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, and Belgian royals are much more immediate so therefore they are closer so their reason for their closeness cannot be compared to the lack of closeness of the BRF and other royal families. The most closely related royal family to the BRF is the Norwegian RF, the rest of them are more on the line as 3rd or 4th cousins. But there have been times where Charles has privately entertained royals like Queen Beatrix, and King Carl Gustaf and Queen Sylvia so the relationships exist.
 
:previous:

As SirGyamfi1 quoted my replies to numerous posters and posts, here is the comment chain to which (I think) he is replying:

SirGyamfi1 said:
Anyways, most of the continental royals like Luxembourg, Belgium and Liechtenstein share very close ties so that’s why they are close, they aren’t close because they are royals but simply because they are connected immediately by blood, marriage and geography whereas the British royals don’t share this.
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Tatiana Maria said:
While there are certainly specific royal families which share close ties of blood, marriage, or geography, it cannot be generalized to most of the continental royals having closer blood, marital, and geographical ties to one another than to the British royals. To cite just a couple of examples, the Swedish royals are closer related by blood and marriage to the British royals than to the Liechtenstein royals. And Britain is geographically much closer to the Netherlands and Belgium than Norway is.
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SirGyamfi1 said:
Well my point was that ties between the Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, and Belgian royals are much more immediate so therefore they are closer so their reason for their closeness cannot be compared to the lack of closeness of the BRF and other royal families. The most closely related royal family to the BRF is the Norwegian RF, the rest of them are more on the line as 3rd or 4th cousins. But there have been times where Charles has privately entertained royals like Queen Beatrix, and King Carl Gustaf and Queen Sylvia so the relationships exist.
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In regard to the last comment: I do not think other posters were comparing the Windsors' closeness to other European royals to the relationships the Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, and Belgian cousins have with each other (rather, with other European royal families in general), but feel free to correct me if there was a post I missed.
 
Tatiana Maria said:
:previous:

As SirGyamfi1 quoted my replies to numerous posters and posts, here is the comment chain to which (I think) he is replying:







In regard to the last comment: I do not think other posters were comparing the Windsors' closeness to other European royals to the relationships the Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, and Belgian cousins have with each other (rather, with other European royal families in general), but feel free to correct me if there was a post I missed.
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There’s no issue.
 
Crown princess Victoria and prince Daniel make an official visit to UK (London and surrounding areas) on November 29 - December 1.
The program of the visit hasn't been published yet, it will be interesting to see if they meet the Prince and Princess of Wales.
 
LadyFinn said:
Crown princess Victoria and prince Daniel make an official visit to UK (London and surrounding areas) on November 29 - December 1.
The program of the visit hasn't been published yet, it will be interesting to see if they meet the Prince and Princess of Wales.
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I expect them to meet both the King and Queen, and the Prince and Princess of Wales, as it is an official visit.


When William and Catherine visited Sweden as Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, they also met privately for tea with Victoria, Daniel and their children at the Haga Palace. At the time, William politely said on the record that he was looking forward to the opportunity of returning the invitation by receiving the CP couple at Kesington, so I fully expect a more informal private meeting between the 2 heirs to be held too.
 
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Blog Real said:
Monaco (like Liechtenstein) does not make state visits.
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Albert and Charlene have made State visits. One was to Poland during the month of October 2012, which is why Princess Caroline attended HGD Guillaume's wedding to represent the Principality of Monaco.

IIRC there was also a State visit to Ireland early in their marriage, and as another poster mentioned above there was a State visit from China to Monaco.
 
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