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  #321  
Old 05-03-2006, 10:32 AM
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We've moved some posts here from the King Carl Gustav birthday thread in order to stop having that thread derailed by the discussion about the absence of the Windsors. The transplanted posts have been pruned to get rid of the ones that were specifically about the birthday rather than the topic in general and the ones that had degenerated into declarations of war between British and Scandinavian partisans.

Let's get this thread back on the general topic and try to avoid having it descend into fights brought on by misguided patriotism.

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  #322  
Old 05-03-2006, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
that the BRF shall plunge back down to earth and want to re-establish strong ties (excluding Norway) with the continent & its Royal Houses.


Why would they want to re-establish any ties? If in years to come, the republicans took over, do we really see any other royal family coming to their aid?
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  #323  
Old 05-03-2006, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon

Why would they want to re-establish any ties? If in years to come, the republicans took over, do we really see any other royal family coming to their aid?
Because whether Britain became a republic or not, one would think they would very much want to keep good ties with most European countries, whether a Monarchy or not! Maybe, I should have simplified my post.

Coming to thier aid? Why, do they need saving? Its not Tsarist Russia you know.

"MII"
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  #324  
Old 05-03-2006, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margrethe II
Because whether Britain became a republic or not, one would think they would very much want to keep good ties with most European countries, whether a Monarchy or not! Maybe, I should have simplified my post.
I don't think the BR's are friends with countries, European or otherwise. They do have friends within some of the European Royal Houses, one's commoners are not always privy to.
your original post
Quote:
More like when the Commonwealth is all but gone, that the BRF shall plunge back down to earth and want to re-establish strong ties (excluding Norway) with the continent & its Royal Houses.
Do they not realise that WWII is over and that its ok to associate with the continent?
It would serve them right for a good "ol" slap in the face.
Yes, perhaps you should explain your post.
What has the commonwealth, gone or not, to do with Europe?
Why would they then want to establish strong ties with Europe?
What has WW2 got to do with anything?

I don't know how it works in other countries but, the ties that are strongest in the UK are the ones between governments.
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  #325  
Old 05-03-2006, 05:05 PM
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I said to stop the bickering. If this carries on, I'll be closing the thread.

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  #326  
Old 05-03-2006, 05:23 PM
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About ties between governments

Ties between primeminister Blair and Persson are strong and they are personal friends in private. But nobody of them are head of state. In a couple of Years GB and Sweden might have other governments, and other politicians being primeministers. The Royal houses will cirenly remain for a longer time then politicians, and if the countries shall stay close and pay attention to what´s a question of etiquette between states, the Brittish court must consider the advantages of being present among other head of states, Monarchs and Presidents, taking proposal outweigh the disadvantages.
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  #327  
Old 05-03-2006, 06:33 PM
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Royal role & responsibility

Regarding the relations between the Great Britain & the rest of Europe...is the BRF responsible for the status and development of those relationships or is it the responsibility of the PM and Parliament? If the latter, would the Storting or other government leaders have any claim to feeling slighted if another royal family did not attend a birthday party?

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  #328  
Old 05-03-2006, 06:58 PM
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Who knows

I donīt think itīs possible to know for sure. But itīs absolutly diplomacy on a higher level, a question of etiquette between states.

GB have their "government and the Parliament", synonymous with Swedish: "regeringen och Riksdagen".
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  #329  
Old 05-04-2006, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
I don't think the BR's are friends with countries, European or otherwise. They do have friends within some of the European Royal Houses, one's commoners are not always privy to.
your original post

I don't know how it works in other countries but, the ties that are strongest in the UK are the ones between governments.
Perhaps I should explain my post? Yes, perhaps I should but I wouldn't waste my time to be frank...The moderating authorities have asked that the bickering stop, so I shall oblige their request.

You are more than welcome to PM me.lol.

"MII"
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  #330  
Old 05-04-2006, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hereditary Mapmaker
Regarding the relations between the Great Britain & the rest of Europe...is the BRF responsible for the status and development of those relationships or is it the responsibility of the PM and Parliament? If the latter, would the Storting or other government leaders have any claim to feeling slighted if another royal family did not attend a birthday party?

Mapper
It is the prime minister and parliament, nothing to do with the royal family and I don't think they would feel at all slighted if an invitation was refused, which has probably happened 100's of times.

I understand, that the reason they do not attend, is that these things are fairly informal in Europe. With the constant threat of terrorism (going back to the days of the IRA), the cost to provide extra security would be horrific for the country involved and the UK government would be unwilling to send any of our men over to 'cover' a royal party, even if it would have been acceptable to the foreign governments (which it rarely is). Can you imagine how it would have spoilt the party atmosphere!
Whenever foreign royalty visit the UK, things are fairly formal in order that security can be a top priority.
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  #331  
Old 05-04-2006, 06:16 AM
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Safty and terror

There were 120 polices intended mainly for the Swedish Royal family at King´s sixtieth anniversery celebration, apart from unknown numbers from SÄPO (The Swedish Security Police) and security guards. At an occation when head of states meet, every single nation make requests for their representatives but their demands are not official. I´m sure every head of state who was in Stockholm at Kings anniversery had their own protection based on their individual demands.


It´s so regrettable with the threats of terrorism we have in all nations nowdays, but we can´t sacrifice democratic traditions because of threats. If we do it will serve terrorists an the terrorists wins over democraty.
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  #332  
Old 05-04-2006, 06:29 AM
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Escorting the Queen of England would have been a drop in the ocean for the Swedish police force.

Living in Stockholm I can only say that May 1st must have been like Ceausescu's Romania. There were police everywhere to escort state heads to the airport. There were traffic police along the road to stop people from driving to fast. There were police ensuring the security of the politicians and the crowd for the ordinary social democrat's demonstrations. Plus numerous resources, I saw an unbelievable amount of big vans filled with police officers, to deal with the illegal Reclaim the streets demonstration. On top of that, there were police out looking for an aggressive child molestor on loose from a physiciatric clinic.

Sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but seeing police everywhere certainly gave me something to think about. I always thought I was living in a peaceful, democratic country.

Back on topic:

At Queen Margrethe's 60 years birthday the Duke of Edinburgh was present.
What representation did England offer at King Harald's 60 years birthday ??
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  #333  
Old 05-04-2006, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karisma
There were 120 polices intended mainly for the Swedish Royal family at King´s sixtieth anniversery celebration, apart from unknown numbers from SÄPO (The Swedish Security Police) and security guards. At an occation when head of states meet, every single nation make requests for their representatives but their demands are not official. I´m sure every head of state who was in Stockholm at Kings anniversery had their own protection based on their individual demands.
.
With the problems the UK has faced from certain groups, it would still have been difficult for everyone concerned. The British police supply around 200 men for events such as this and with an extra 200 armed forces (excluding the SAS and SPF), it would probably be a large number required. As Daneborn has pointed out, a lot of the Swedish police were caught up in prearranged demonstrations and rightly had other heads of state to guard.

The request for extra protection would I feel have been official from the UK government and you only have to look at the amount of security at the Queens 80th walkabout to see how it would have altered the atmosphere for your King and all his guests.

As most on here have said, lesser royals would have been seen as an insult, Charles already had long term engagements and Camilla was preparing for her daughters wedding. It seems they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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  #334  
Old 05-04-2006, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
With the problems the UK has faced from certain groups, it would still have been difficult for everyone concerned. The British police supply around 200 men for events such as this and with an extra 200 armed forces (excluding the SAS and SPF), it would probably be a large number required. As Daneborn has pointed out, a lot of the Swedish police were caught up in prearranged demonstrations and rightly had other heads of state to guard.

The request for extra protection would I feel have been official from the UK government and you only have to look at the amount of security at the Queens 80th walkabout to see how it would have altered the atmosphere for your King and all his guests.

As most on here have said, lesser royals would have been seen as an insult, Charles already had long term engagements and Camilla was preparing for her daughters wedding. It seems they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
I was pointing out that half of the Swedish population seems to be employed by the police force and it would be a task as many others, be it police or army, to escort your precious Queen as well.

I see your point but from a security point of view it's better for the Queen to stay behind closed castle walls. Which is letting the terrorists set the agenda

Neither Drottningholm, the chuch, the City Hall or the Royal Castle were open to the public when the King's events took place. Although we don't see pictures of it I can assure you these places, plus the transports in between, were heavily guarded.

At the inner court yard scene (where you can't escape if you try something) only little, harmless children were allowed to greet the King.
At the balcony scene at the Royal Castle there was a 100 metre distance between the crowd and the Lejonbacken balcony.

The horse carriages drove so fast through the City afterwards that people were complaining they could'nt even take a snapshot. I don't know if that was sniper-preventing but it did seem a little odd.

Let's face it, the Queen of England and the King of Sweden aren't close. To me it's no big mystery why she didn't make a note of this anniversary in her calender. I just don't want minor English royals clogging our parties just because they are ordered to do so.
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  #335  
Old 05-04-2006, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daneborn
I was pointing out that half of the Swedish population seems to be employed by the police force and it would be a task as many others, be it police or army, to escort your precious Queen as well.
.
IMO our government clearly thought that security would not be tight enough on this occasion, to guard everyone concerned, whether it was by using the police or your army, (which I believe only has a limited number of regiments and battalions). What a civilian thinks is heavily guarded (even though by your admission, you didn't see that) may not be to the authorities involved.

I am certain that you would back your government and royals, if on security issues, they did not attend some event or other. The dangers to your own royals were much reduced by the absence of any BR, as you are not involved in any conflict.

By not sending any royals to Sweden on this occasion should have made you very happy then, as they were not clogging any party and by all accounts, would not have been welcome anyway.

Problem solved!
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  #336  
Old 05-04-2006, 10:52 AM
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Not about security

Iīm sure it was not about security when the BRF was absent when we celebrated King Carl Gustaf. Brittish military canīt do anything to protect BRF in times of peace. Royals and all other people are under civil law and order in Brittain as well as in Sweden.

If President Bush can visit Sweden, and King Juan Carlos too (ex.), BRF certainly could have honoured King Carl Gustaf [us, the Swedish people] by attending the party. A monarchy with members behind walls of brick canīt be representative for all kind and friendly Brittish people!

Itīs all about a question of etiquette! But nothing would ever surprise me any more about members in BRF. They have been off limits so many times before so I have stopped being surprised over what some of them are able to do - and what they failed to persuade. However: Their behavior this time, as in so many times before, is inexcusable for Royals and a shame for nice and friendly Briton.
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  #337  
Old 05-04-2006, 11:19 AM
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Responsibility

Thanks for the responses to my previous post. I probably wasn't clear enough but I am looking for opinions. Do we think that these events are part of the diplomatic process in developing relations between two countries or are they simply "window-dressing" for the host countries? How involved do we want contemporary monarchies to be in terms of politics and international relations? And are these events more or less important than state visits which usually involve trade relations and royals opening/commemorating places of commerce or historical interest?
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  #338  
Old 05-04-2006, 11:57 AM
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Knowingly and willingly

It must be well known for all Royal courts, even the Brittish, when the King of Sweden have his birthday. When BRF "intentionally" donīt participate it must be seen as a question of etiquette and inexcusable bad behavior. (To tell the truth: if the SRF, in the paste or in the future, donīt participate in an official celebration in GB, without finding an excuse, it would be exactly similar - bad behavior)!
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  #339  
Old 05-04-2006, 12:06 PM
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The King of swedens Birthday party has been on its way for 60 years, the royals usually always place the celebration in the weekend closes to their big day. No representation from UK just looks bad.

The security reason is lame, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia attended both the Private party and I could see Juan Carlos looking at the birthday parade as well. The Kings of Spain stayed at Haga Palace, which is in the outskirts of Stockholm i think, where the King grew up. The swedish Police is professionals and has handled many high profile and much bigger terror threats than the british royals, sending Andrew, the Wessexes or the Walses they would be taken care of in a professional way and returned to UK in one piece, just like Juan Carlos and Sofia.
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  #340  
Old 05-04-2006, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daneborn

Back on topic:

At Queen Margrethe's 60 years birthday the Duke of Edinburgh was present.
What representation did England offer at King Harald's 60 years birthday ??
Good idea.

According to a guest-list I've seen, Prince Charles attended King Harald and Queen Sonja's joint birthday party in Trondheim in 1997, on behalf of the royal family.

He and Prince Edward seems to alternate on the assignments to the Norwegian royal family.
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