The Windsors and Europe

[kelly9480]

Probably because the royal family are supposed to base their timetable on other considerations than whether they want to attend something. If it's traditional for royal families to send representatives to celebrations of major birthdays and so on, then either the British royal family should do so or alternatively shouldn't expect representatives of other royal families to show up at equivalent British celebrations. It's the perception that other families are expected to show up at British events but the reverse isn't true which isn't sitting well with people.

I don't disagree that it looks arrogant, but I'm willing to accept that that's how things operate when dealing with the UK. According to Marlene, who I think posts here, the Brits have been sending junior representatives to foreign events since Victoria's reign. It's been accepted as common practice since her reign, and we can't realistically expect it to change, especially not with the current crop of royals (only the Wessexes appear to enjoy the events).

 

[Charlotte1]

Royal birthdays aside, I think it's terrible that Edward did not attend his own godson's christening because he didn't feel like making the trip. Being made godfather is an honor and should be treated as such. To me that makes Edward lazy and kind of arrogant.

British royals not attending christenings on their Royal European counterparts is not a recent phenomenom. The Queen Mother had several European royal god-children, Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia, Princess Astrid of Norway, Princess Sophia of Greece ( now Queen of Spain), Princess Benedikte of Denmark ( Ok excuse as it was 1944) and she didn't attend any of their christenings. The only European god-child's christening she did attend was Princess Irene of the Netherlands as that was held in the chapel in Buckingham Palace as the Dutch royals were sheltering in the UK during WW2.

CP Frederik and Prince Felipe didn't attend the christening of their god-daugher Ingrid Alexandra, it's not just British royals who select what social events they'll attend.

 

[ysbel]

In the 1800s it was less common for monarchs to leave their countries so I don't think the Windsors were that out of step with European royalty then. Christian IX was godparent to a lot of his grandchildren and great grandchildren but someone always stood in for him at the foreign baptisms. I think Alexandra always stood in for him at the Wales children's baptism and he sent his grandson Christian X to stand in for him at the Tsarevich's baptism in Russia.

Only in the 1900s with the advances in travel making it easier to get back and forth more quickly have the Windsors been out of step with their European counterparts.

 

[Zonk]

okay..not to be totally off topic..but Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex is Prince Nikolai of Denmark's godfather? I can't find confirmation (other than this thread) anywhere.

 

[soCal girl]

British royals not attending christenings on their Royal European counterparts is not a recent phenomenom. The Queen Mother had several European royal god-children, Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia, Princess Astrid of Norway, Princess Sophia of Greece ( now Queen of Spain), Princess Benedikte of Denmark ( Ok excuse as it was 1944) and she didn't attend any of their christenings. The only European god-child's christening she did attend was Princess Irene of the Netherlands as that was held in the chapel in Buckingham Palace as the Dutch royals were sheltering in the UK during WW2.

CP Frederik and Prince Felipe didn't attend the christening of their god-daugher Ingrid Alexandra, it's not just British royals who select what social events they'll attend.

I know that it's not only British royals who are selective about what events they attend. I thought it was also terrible that CP Frederick and CP Felipe did not attend their goddaughter's christening. I understand it's not the norm for the BRF to attend such events, but IMO that doesn't make it better. Why not start now? I think some efforts should be made to mingle with other royals at events such as a christening or a wedding especially if one was chosen as a godparent. To me, it's just courtesy.

 

[crisiñaki]

the BRF aren't the only ones who don't go to celebrations, I agree with you. But the other RF go to different acts while the last time I've ever seen a BRF senior member going to the continent was when PoW went to F&L's wedding in 2004, they expected everyone to go to QEII's Jubilee (which every European Monarch attended) but aren't so keen on sending someone to the other RF's acts which I think it's very rude, they expect everyone to come to the UK and consider that a great honor but don't like to go to the continent; QEII and the DoE are old people and cannot travel but why Charles, Camilla, Andrew, Anne or Edward (he usually goes everywhere but since he wasn't invited ) go to the continent? why does everyone has to bow to the UK's monarchy? the Denmark's monarchy is the oldest and they are the origin of the Norwegian and Greek monarchies, yet you'll never get that kind of vibe from them.
About the age gap argument, yes PoW probably would not get very along with let's say Haakon or Felipe, but one thing are personal likes and dislikes and other completely different is to represent your country with dignity.

 

[purple_platinum]

I think it's a real great shame for the younger british royals not to know better their fellow royals in europe or other countries.
just imagine when it's time for William or Harry to represent Britain in major royal events, they haven't know anyone!
even much much younger royals, like babies Amalia, Ingrid Alexandra, Christian, Sverre, and others are already trained to know their cousins.

it just makes the british seems more arrogant & superior toward the others.
i just don't understand it.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

There always was the discussion about how the British subjects view their monarchy and how the Scandinavians, Dutch or Spanish citizens do it.

At the moment, the British monarchy IMHO is looking for a new position - after they've been through the gutter, they may try to reestablish a kind of view of the Royals as being above the ordinary citizens? While the European royality heartily embrace the equal rights movement? Maybe they want to show their subjects that they consider the others as not playing in their league anymore, accept them as foreign heads of state when they come to London but not as their equals anymore?

It is the only explanation that I can come up with when the POW is related by blood to so many of the other European Royals via his Greek-Danish Royal blood from his father's side....

 

[HRH Kerry]

okay..not to be totally off topic..but Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex is Prince Nikolai of Denmark's godfather? I can't find confirmation (other than this thread) anywhere.

Zonk1189,

Here's a link to Wikipedia on the matter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Nikolai_of_Denmark

 

[Daneborn]

It is no secret that the King of Sweden's bithday occurs on 30 April every year, it is his birthday and has been since the day he came to the world, and will continue to be (he has no second official birthday like QEII) throughout his life.

With this in mind, all of the Royal Families of Europe should've been able to schedule their royal/s for attendance at least on his birthday, without the further celebrations beeing set until in recent months...

Exactly my opinion.

They can make these anniversary schedules YEARS in advance.

When the Swedish King turns 60 I expect the Queen of England or at least the ''crown prince'' Charles to show up. If they can't attend I honestly don't see the point in sending lower royals.

The Swedish and English royal families aren't close. If they want to attend each other's family events they should do so because they like each other. Which they obviously don't.

When other Queens and Kings seem to enjoy the party, the get-together and the dressing-up, it seems to me Queen Elizabeth hates it. Which could be one explanation why she avoids these parties unless she can be in control and the centre of attention at her own anniversaries.

In my opinion; Queen Beatrix is a wise woman who doesn't miss a good party even when she's busy in her own country

 

[Skydragon]

Do we know for certain that they were invited?
Do we know for certain that they did not have a valid excuse?
Do we know for certain that Charles did not go because Camilla wasn't invited?
Do we know for certain that Edward was considered too minor?
Do we know for certain that the BRF expects everyone to bow to them?
Could it be that security would have been a bigger headache?
Could it possibly be that they don't get on, as happens in families?

We don't know and it is a little presumptious of us to be commenting on things we really don't know, or is it another chance to knock the Brits?

 

[marlene]

I think that part of the problem with the BRF is that for many years they have tried to downplay the fact that they even have european relations.Tjis started when they changed their name to Windsor.From then on small things have occured to continue this view.Prince Phillips relation to the greek and german royal houses was somewhat hidden when he was given the name of Mountbatten.Princess Michael's european background was somewhat ridiculed in the british press as not being equal to the british aristocracy and people said she was trying to be more royal than the queen.Unfortunately this kind of attitude will lead to some distance between the BRF and the rest of europe.I also think that they have to balance a much finer rope when it comes to travelling on the public purse or even without, as people will find their travel frivoulous because going to other royal events aren't seen to be in the benefit of the british people and just cost money.Just an add on to the message I read here about the Dutch royal family spending the war in England, the fact is that they spent the majority of the war in Ottawa and have repaid Canada by sending us millions of beautiful tulip bulbs which are on view every spring for the public to enjoy.

 

[H.M. Margrethe]

British royals not attending christenings on their Royal European counterparts is not a recent phenomenom. The Queen Mother had several European royal god-children, Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia, Princess Astrid of Norway, Princess Sophia of Greece ( now Queen of Spain), Princess Benedikte of Denmark ( Ok excuse as it was 1944) and she didn't attend any of their christenings. The only European god-child's christening she did attend was Princess Irene of the Netherlands as that was held in the chapel in Buckingham Palace as the Dutch royals were sheltering in the UK during WW2.

CP Frederik and Prince Felipe didn't attend the christening of their god-daugher Ingrid Alexandra, it's not just British royals who select what social events they'll attend.

It´s tru that CP Frederik did not attend Ingrid Alexandras christning BUT the reason for him not attend was that he was being "kidnap" for his stag party befor his wedding.
I know that he always sending a gift for his godchildren (he has alot of them) when they are having birthday,christmas and ther christningday.
I don´t know the reason for CP Felipe not attending the christning.....

About the Winsors i think it is rude of them not sending a person or a cupel for a big event like King CarlGustav of Swedens 60 birthday..I also thougth it was a bit tackiy that neiter prince Charles or Queen Elisabeth was attending CP Frederik and CP Marys wedding...Denmark and England are not fare apart from each other. After all it was a CrownPrincely wedding and i know that both Queen Elisabeth and prince Charles did attend both wedding and party when CP Pavlos and CP MarieChantal was married with each other.

If the next generation of royales in England are going to have a stable relationship with other young royals they have to go out some more royal events instead off being back home in England..

 

[Daneborn]

If the next generation of royales in England are going to have a stable relationship with other young royals they have to go out some more royal events instead off being back home in England

Again, wise move of Queen Beatrix to travel to Sweden for a good party.

If you want people to come to your party you have to show them the honour to attend their parties.

The fact is, she had no 'spiritual' problem of any sort to attend the funeral of the late Belgian King and Silver wedding celebrations of Queen Juliana. The only two events abroad she has attended during her reign.

It doesn't take a physic to understand WHY Queen Elizabeth attended King Baudoin's funeral:

It was in 1993, just after ''annus horribilis'', 1992, with it's scandals. It was vital and needed for the Queen to show a good sport for the monarchy.

I don't ''buy'' the excuse for CP Frederik not to attend Ingrid Alexandra's christening. Frederik wasn't the subject for the bachelor party so why would they have to kidnap him ??

At Camillia & Charles' wedding on a short notice the NRF was able to send quite a few representatives. As I interprete it the NRF is 'minor' to the BRF and the DaRF. The reason being that the NRF origins from a Danish prince and a British princess. I think that's why we see this sucking up from the NRF. They will probably attend the British Queen's 80 years birthday as well, although Elizabeth never attends Harald's anniversaries.

I sincerely hope the DaRF and the SRF seends noone to the official 80 years birthday.

 

[soCal girl]

I know Prince William and Prince Harry are busy right now with army training and what not that I find it completely understandable that they did not attend. It is my wish though in the future that they mingle with some other royals. IMO they would get along with the younger Swedish clan just fine, especially Carl Philip and Madeleine. Madeleine and Harry love a good party and Carl Philip and William seem a little bit more reserved but still party . Through these connections they could probably get to know the Scandanavian royals a little bit better and so on. It's a chain reaction. And I don't think the BRF's absence from King Carl XVI Gustaf's birthday party was another chance to knock at the British Royals. While they're not my favorite royal family, it's not like I dislike them. Besides, they are the one royal connection we basically have in the U.S.

 

[Saragli]

I am dissappointed with the BRF not sending anybody from the ginormous family to this importent celebration. The Queen and Prince Phillip would not have attended and Charles and Camilla are the obvious choice to go but Laura gets married on the weekend and im sure she wants her mother with her the week before her marriage. Charles probably didnt want to go alone. Invitations to Charles wedding were very restricted and to friends only so I dont even think the swedes were invited. William and Harry are in the army and could not have gone. But there are other royals that could have gone but I dont know why.

 

[Saragli]

I think in the future we will see Britian and Europe getting closer. It is just that right now the commonwealth is still very importent and it will change in the future and when it does is probably when Britian will start focusing much more on Europe.

 

[Margrethe II]

I think in the future we will see Britian and Europe getting closer. It is just that right now the commonwealth is still very importent and it will change in the future and when it does is probably when Britian will start focusing much more on Europe.

More like when the Commonwealth is all but gone, that the BRF shall plunge back down to earth and want to re-establish strong ties (excluding Norway) with the continent & its Royal Houses.

Do they not realise that WWII is over and that its ok to associate with the continent?

It would serve them right for a good "ol" slap in the face.

"MII"

 

[Zonk]

Here is a weird question...has anyone from Buckingham Palace (in an official capacity not the Daily Mirror/Mail or the Sun) explained why no one attended the King of Sweden's birthday's party.

 

[Skydragon]

Here is a weird question...has anyone from Buckingham Palace (in an official capacity not the Daily Mirror/Mail or the Sun) explained why no one attended the King of Sweden's birthday's party.

And as I keep asking, does anyone know if they were in fact invited!

 

[Elspeth]

We've moved some posts here from the King Carl Gustav birthday thread in order to stop having that thread derailed by the discussion about the absence of the Windsors. The transplanted posts have been pruned to get rid of the ones that were specifically about the birthday rather than the topic in general and the ones that had degenerated into declarations of war between British and Scandinavian partisans.

Let's get this thread back on the general topic and try to avoid having it descend into fights brought on by misguided patriotism.

Elspeth

British Forum moderator

 

[Skydragon]

that the BRF shall plunge back down to earth and want to re-establish strong ties (excluding Norway) with the continent & its Royal Houses.

Why would they want to re-establish any ties? If in years to come, the republicans took over, do we really see any other royal family coming to their aid?

 

[Margrethe II]

Why would they want to re-establish any ties? If in years to come, the republicans took over, do we really see any other royal family coming to their aid?

Because whether Britain became a republic or not, one would think they would very much want to keep good ties with most European countries, whether a Monarchy or not! Maybe, I should have simplified my post.

Coming to thier aid? Why, do they need saving? Its not Tsarist Russia you know.

"MII"

 

[Skydragon]

Because whether Britain became a republic or not, one would think they would very much want to keep good ties with most European countries, whether a Monarchy or not! Maybe, I should have simplified my post.

I don't think the BR's are friends with countries, European or otherwise. They do have friends within some of the European Royal Houses, one's commoners are not always privy to.
your original post

More like when the Commonwealth is all but gone, that the BRF shall plunge back down to earth and want to re-establish strong ties (excluding Norway) with the continent & its Royal Houses.
Do they not realise that WWII is over and that its ok to associate with the continent?
It would serve them right for a good "ol" slap in the face.

Yes, perhaps you should explain your post.
What has the commonwealth, gone or not, to do with Europe?
Why would they then want to establish strong ties with Europe?
What has WW2 got to do with anything?

I don't know how it works in other countries but, the ties that are strongest in the UK are the ones between governments.

 

[Elspeth]

I said to stop the bickering. If this carries on, I'll be closing the thread.

Elspeth

British Forum moderator

 

[Karisma]

About ties between governments

Ties between primeminister Blair and Persson are strong and they are personal friends in private. But nobody of them are head of state. In a couple of Years GB and Sweden might have other governments, and other politicians being primeministers. The Royal houses will cirenly remain for a longer time then politicians, and if the countries shall stay close and pay attention to what´s a question of etiquette between states, the Brittish court must consider the advantages of being present among other head of states, Monarchs and Presidents, taking proposal outweigh the disadvantages.

 

[Hereditary Mapmaker]

Royal role & responsibility

Regarding the relations between the Great Britain & the rest of Europe...is the BRF responsible for the status and development of those relationships or is it the responsibility of the PM and Parliament? If the latter, would the Storting or other government leaders have any claim to feeling slighted if another royal family did not attend a birthday party?

Mapper

 

[Karisma]

Who knows

I don´t think it´s possible to know for sure. But it´s absolutly diplomacy on a higher level, a question of etiquette between states.

GB have their "government and the Parliament", synonymous with Swedish: "regeringen och Riksdagen".

 

[Margrethe II]

I don't think the BR's are friends with countries, European or otherwise. They do have friends within some of the European Royal Houses, one's commoners are not always privy to.
your original post

I don't know how it works in other countries but, the ties that are strongest in the UK are the ones between governments.

Perhaps I should explain my post? Yes, perhaps I should but I wouldn't waste my time to be frank...The moderating authorities have asked that the bickering stop, so I shall oblige their request.

You are more than welcome to PM me.lol.

"MII"

 

[Skydragon]

Regarding the relations between the Great Britain & the rest of Europe...is the BRF responsible for the status and development of those relationships or is it the responsibility of the PM and Parliament? If the latter, would the Storting or other government leaders have any claim to feeling slighted if another royal family did not attend a birthday party?

Mapper

It is the prime minister and parliament, nothing to do with the royal family and I don't think they would feel at all slighted if an invitation was refused, which has probably happened 100's of times.

I understand, that the reason they do not attend, is that these things are fairly informal in Europe. With the constant threat of terrorism (going back to the days of the IRA), the cost to provide extra security would be horrific for the country involved and the UK government would be unwilling to send any of our men over to 'cover' a royal party, even if it would have been acceptable to the foreign governments (which it rarely is). Can you imagine how it would have spoilt the party atmosphere!
Whenever foreign royalty visit the UK, things are fairly formal in order that security can be a top priority.