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  #201  
Old 02-22-2006, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
She has only recently become Europe's senior monarch following the death of Prince Rainier but she has always stayed away from other royal occasions much to the embarrassment of many in Britain. Someone once said that they have convinced themselves that they are superior to other royal to hide the fact that they actually have an inferiority complex because thay know that unlike the other royal families there are people who have a much stronger claim to the throne than they do.
No one has a stronger claim to the British throne than the current Sovereign and her descendants. Under the Act of Settlement, Elizabeth II is Queen. It is automatic and straightforward.
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  #202  
Old 02-22-2006, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
Someone once said that they have convinced themselves that they are superior to other royal to hide the fact that they actually have an inferiority complex because thay know that unlike the other royal families there are people who have a much stronger claim to the throne than they do.
I doubt very much that the House of Windsor is troubled by the supposed claims of those dispossesed by the Act of Settlement of 1701... over 300 years ago!
Nor am I aware of any campaign to place the senior Stuart representative, Duke Franz of Bavaria, on the Throne of Great Britain. Pure fantasy.
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  #203  
Old 02-22-2006, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
No one has a stronger claim to the British throne than the current Sovereign and her descendants. Under the Act of Settlement, Elizabeth II is Queen. It is automatic and straightforward.
Apart from anything else, 'to the winner the spoils'!
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  #204  
Old 02-24-2006, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
No one has a stronger claim to the British throne than the current Sovereign and her descendants. .
That is just not so. Apart from the fact that the Stuarts have a stronger claim to the Scottish and British thrones, there is a gentleman in Australia who has a stronger claim to the English throne than the Windsors. There was a programme about him on British t.v. last year.
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  #205  
Old 02-24-2006, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly9480
Do you honestly consider third and fourth cousins to be family? Do you attend all of their events? I certainly don't and I don't see why she should either. She is most closely related by blood to the Norwegians, and marriage to the Greeks and Spaniards (blood ties are slightly more distant). The Danes and Swedes are descendants of Victoria, and the Belgians and Luxembourgers are cousins through Astrid of Sweden (IIRC, otherwise, it must be through the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha family). Those aren't close connections at all, and it's not surprising she doesn't attend a lot. Margrethe is 16 years younger than her so that's not a fair comparison. There are no sovereigns her age or Philip's age, so we can't look at them and say they should attend more. At their age, they probably want to rest on their weekends and don't really like the extra travel -- not all elderly people do.
It has absolutely nothing to do with her age. She didn't used to travel when she was younger, as well.
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  #206  
Old 02-24-2006, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
Excellent points made, Elspeth and kelly9480, a monarch who reigns and does not have real political power NEVER should be involved, or make any public comments on, anything that has to do with the government operations.
Rather unconvincing points, actually. Everything is political. All the European Monarchs have had 'argument' with their respective governments. They only have to avoid party politics.
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  #207  
Old 02-24-2006, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Maybe Queen Elizabeth II got so traumatized by her attendance of the silver wedding of Juliana and Bernhard in 1962 that she decided never to attend foreign royal events ever again (except the funeral of Baudouin, for PR reasons). According to a dutch magazine I have (In naam van Oranje) Queen Elizabeth II was angry that not she but the Sjah of Persia was the guest of honour, sitting on the right hand of Queen Juliana. Her mood didn't improve when the royal party entered the hall with photographers and empress Farah got most of the attention of the photographers. Furthermore, she had to be transported (with other royals) in a bus, which (according to the magazine) she entered hesitantly.

Furthermore we must consider her upbringing. Her mother never like the european royals. I think mainly because she feared some looked down on her (like Marina of Kent who once referred to her and Alice of Gloucester as common little scottish girls). Maybe she transferred her dislike to her eldest daughter.

Having this said I wonder about the ease with which some Anglo-Saxon posters in this thread claim that Queen Elizabeth II has the biggest workload and that only her sheduele is planned months in advance. What do they think continental royals do? They wake up, think: 'well, I really don't feel like meeting those people today, lets re-sheduele it' and they go back to sleep again?
Excellent points! I think some of the posters here believe that Queen Elizabeth II is the only one with such obligation. It's quite hilarious, actually :)
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  #208  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Power and influence are best exercised behind the scenes. Whatever differences Queen Elizabeth has made to government policy or direction over the past 50 years is not something she is likely to announce in a presss release. Only she and her Prime Ministers know what has been discussed at their regular meetings.
.
This is not an axiom, just your opinion. Although, you've phrased it as such. It's not like there are only two options: doing things behind the scenes or having a fearsome fight. Expressing a view, by a royal, even criticism on his respective government is totally reasonable. It has been done so by several other monarchs. Guess what? Their monarchies stayed intact.
intact.
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  #209  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
People can make all he excuses they like as to why Elizabeth doesn’t attend other royal events but in reality there is no excuse. Lets look at some of those excuses:

She is an old woman: Yes, but she hasn’t always been old and even on her younger days never went to anything.

It’s protocol: What kind of protocol is it that stops a monarch attending events outside her country? Granted at one time the English were the most hated people on earth and their monarch was likely to be assassinated if they left the country, but those days are gone and it’s part of the job description to attend.

She is Queen of more than one country and has a heavy work load: Most of those countries have Governor Generals who do the work. Even in Scotland, the oldest kingdom of which she is queen only gets a week of her time. And consider this, Elizabeth has a month break over Christmas and New Year. She has another month break at Easter and a two-month break in the summer when she goes to Balmoral. During those four months she carries out no royal duties. During the rest of the year she stays at Windsor from Friday to Monday and again, carries out no duties over her four-day weekend. That leaves three days in the week for royal engagements. That means that there are only around 96 days in the year when royal engagements are carried out, and this has been her schedule throughout her reign.

One of the reasons I heard as to why she didn’t go to anything was because the British government would only allow her to go if she was given place of honour. Of course there was no way that was going to happen as the monarchs take their place according to how long they have reigned and throughout the years Elizabeth was well down the line. It’s true she attended King Baudioun’s funeral but I have heard that that was a mistake. The British government thought that with Baudioun out of the picture Elizabeth was now Europe’s longest reigning monarch and would have place of honour after the Belgian royal family but they forgot about Prince Rainier who had not only reigned longer than Elizabeth but had also reigned longer than Baudioun .

This all has to do with the belief held by the British government and by many English people that the Windsors are somehow superior to other royals. I have heard English people claim that the other royals are not “real royalty” and I have even heard it claimed that the other monarchs had their titles given to them by the British monarchy. This week the Norwegian royals visited Britain. Some of the newspapers reporting the visit used capital letters when referring to the British Queen, Prince or Duchess but lower case when referring to the Norwegian royals ie, king, queen and crown prince instead of King, Queen and Crown Prince. This is because in British eyes they are inferior to the Windsors.

Why they should regard them as superior is a mystery and I think the Windsors do regard themselves as being better. I did read one reason for this. It was suggested that they have to convince themselves they are better because, unlike the other royal families, they are not the rightful royal family. They also know that they are no way near as popular as the other royals. In Scotland Elizabeth has never enjoyed great popularity. This goes back to the day she was proclaimed as “Elizabeth the second”

She is only the second in England but the first in Scotland and all the other countries in which she is queen. There was a great outcry in Scotland when this happened and post boxes with EIIR on it were blown up, (today the monogram is never used in Scotland.) People would have forgiven this putting it down to bad advice but things were to get worse. On the day of her inauguration as Queen of Scots in the High Kirk of St. Giles in Edinburgh thousands lined the streets waiting to see her. I was told by a lady who was there that as the carriage came along the cheers sounded “strange” they rose up and then seemed to die in mid air changing to an “ohhh.” When the carriage passed by she saw what the reason was, Elizabeth was wearing an ordinary dress and a hat and coat. She hadn’t made any attempt to dress for the occasion. During the service the Honours of Scotland, the crown jewels, were presented to her. She was to touch the crown (she couldn’t wear it as only the Stuarts are entitled to wear the Scottish crown) but she didn’t even put her handbag down to do so. The next day the newspapers had only one headline “THAT BLOODY HANDBAG.” As she left the kirk it was noticeable that most of the crowd had disappeared in disgust. My great grandfather who had proudly placed her photo on the wall took it down and burnt it and as long as he lived he forbad the mention of her name in the house. From that day there has been a love/hate relationship with her in Scotland.

I’m sure the other monarchs must talk among themselves about Elizabeth’s absence but I’m sure they are better off without her. She would probably be a party pooper.
Thank you Iain, for this mos excellent post!
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  #210  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
There was that wonderful quote from the Queen ;

"It's my son, it's my yacht and it's my territory"

One of her finer moments.
I wouldn't consider it as a fine moment at all. Just another example of the 'mightier than thou' attitude mentioned earlier.
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  #211  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
That is just not so. Apart from the fact that the Stuarts have a stronger claim to the Scottish and British thrones, there is a gentleman in Australia who has a stronger claim to the English throne than the Windsors. There was a programme about him on British t.v. last year.
Back to Duke Franz of Bavaria I see. When will he be making his move to claim the British Crown, I wonder? And a TV programme?

I'd say the best argument for the legitimacy of Elizabeth II is that her antecedents were given the Crown by an Act of Parliament, expressing the Will of the People. Can't get much more legitimate than that. Unlesss you are saying a Wittelsbach Prince and a TV show have a greater legitimacy than the Parliament?
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  #212  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly9480
EIIR's own advisers have stated she had to be forced to attend the funeral. She was, according to them, planning to send Charles, but her advisers claimed that, because she was on holiday, it would look churlish of her not to attend herself. No one connected to EIIR has ever said she went because she wanted to; they've always said she went because she was told it would look bad. That doesn't speak of a special relationship between the two to me. But then again, EIIR is criticized by her own family members and lifelong friends for her reactions to death, so it's not surprising. Mountbatten's daughters have criticized her for never actually saying to them that she was sorry for the loss of their father, though she wrote a six-page letter when one of them lost a dog.
Could you name the source of this information, please?
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  #213  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:50 PM
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Your post was very interesting Iain (not that agree with it all), particularly the part about Scotland. I already knew about the bland coat, I didn't knew about the Crown episode.
I am actually stunned and shocked EII, that I admire greatly, would make such gross and blatant mistakes (not even talking about being plain rude).
Just a remark:
Quote:
I’m sure the other monarchs must talk among themselves about Elizabeth’s absence but I’m sure they are better off without her. She would probably be a party pooper.
I doubt that statement very much, as she is renown for having a great sense of humour.

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  #214  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:54 PM
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Just another example of the 'mightier than thou' attitude mentioned earlier
Well she is 'mightier than thou'. I follow Winston Churchill's wonderful words, shortly after the Queen came to the throne. "We have a plan that we think works well. And here it is. The Queen can do no wrong". Never was a truer word said.
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  #215  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
I'd say the best argument for the legitimacy of Elizabeth II is that her antecedents were given the Crown by an Act of Parliament, expressing the Will of the People. Can't get much more legitimate than that. Unlesss you are saying a Wittelsbach Prince and a TV show have a greater legitimacy than the Parliament?
Yes I agree, this legitimacy stuff is just a pastime for history buffs and is quite ridiculous.
At the end of the day, British people see EII as their legitimate Queen and no-one else. That is the only thing that matters ultimately.
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  #216  
Old 02-24-2006, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Well she is 'mightier than thou'. I follow Winston Churchill's wonderful words, shortly after the Queen came to the throne. "We have a plan that we think works well. And here it is. The Queen can do no wrong". Never was a truer word said.
One of the most redicilous statments I've ever heard.
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  #217  
Old 02-24-2006, 02:18 PM
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Well it would be wouldn't it dear.
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  #218  
Old 02-24-2006, 02:22 PM
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I don't think those of us non British would ever understand or condone the Queen's attitude, but if her people agree with that, it's up to them to mantain that inferiority complex not our problem and think: I live in England, I really like the country but I've never follow the British royalty, to me they are a bunch of hypocrits because they think they are better than anyone else and their lives are worse than the tackiest soap opera filled with infidelities and divorces, then why are they the example for their people.
I have respect for QEII because:
1. She's an old lady and I was taught to respect my seniors
2. She's the only one in that family that can walk straight ahead without any skeletons coming out the closet
But I don't respect the somewhat obnoxious attitude she gets with other royals, commoners I would understand, but fellow monarchs? Don't think so.

I've been respectful with everyone here and I expect the same kind of respect back, don't insult me for my point of view, if you like the Windsors, I can respect your opinion but I honestly don't share it.

Thanks in advance
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  #219  
Old 02-24-2006, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by hofburg
Rather unconvincing points, actually. Everything is political. All the European Monarchs have had 'argument' with their respective governments. They only have to avoid party politics.

Not everything is political. A monarch should remain publicly above such matters, hence why she reigns and not rules........
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  #220  
Old 02-24-2006, 03:50 PM
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I forgive you.
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