The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022

[RoyalProtocol]

I may be wrong but it looks like Prince Harry has on two stars tonight. Any suggestions?

 

[Dman]

Well even for me it sounds plausible now.
There's something for sure... it's getting ridiculous !

I watched the coverage and possession and when I got a glimpse of Catherine without her family order, all I could do was shake my head. I'm trying to not think about the unfairness and ridiculousness of it all.

 

[cepe]

I watched the coverage and possession and when I got a glimpse of Catherine without her family order, all I could do was shake my head. I'm trying to not think about the unfairness and ridiculousness of it all.

Its about ivory, IMO. William wants a complete ban so that makes the position difficult.

The Queen has indicated her support of Catherine by letting her use jewellery that is of real personal significance. I think that is important.

I dont expect everyone to agree but thats my view

 

[Pranter]

Its about ivory, IMO. William wants a complete ban so that makes the position difficult.

The Queen has indicated her support of Catherine by letting her use jewellery that is of real personal significance. I think that is important.

I dont expect everyone to agree but thats my view

And not the first time either (bringing to mind the lovely bracelet she's worn a couple times, wasn't that a wedding gift for the Queen also?)....IIRC.



LaRae

 

[Leopoldine]

Its about ivory, IMO. William wants a complete ban so that makes the position difficult.

The Queen has indicated her support of Catherine by letting her use jewellery that is of real personal significance. I think that is important.

I dont expect everyone to agree but thats my view

I agree with this view.

If anyone there had worn an order adorned with an ivory miniature, it would have become the story. William has been championing the ivory ban all over the world as well as at home.

And I also think that HM is very happy with Catherine and is pleased to be able to lend her some "big guns" from the vaults.

 

[Dman]

Does Harry have another order? He was wearing two badges tonight.

 

[RoyalProtocol]

Does Harry have another order? He was wearing two badges tonight.

I've asked the same question above. I've also posted about it in the State Visit thread.

 

[maria-olivia]

The Collar of the Golden Fleece and the Sash of the Order of the Garter. Perfect.
Did his Father received the Garter also ?

 

[Dman]

Its about ivory, IMO. William wants a complete ban so that makes the position difficult.

The Queen has indicated her support of Catherine by letting her use jewellery that is of real personal significance. I think that is important.

I dont expect everyone to agree but thats my view

That's all fine and great, but Catherine should already have the family order. The order can be made without ivory. No one is using their heads on this issue at all. This wouldn't be happening with Mary, Marie, Sophie, Camilla, Diana, Sofia or Maxima. For some odd reason Catherine is singled out over something that's very easy to solve. Simple stuff.

 

[tommy100]

Interestingly the Queen wasn't wearing her RFOs tonight was she?

 

[Mbruno]

The Collar of the Golden Fleece and the Sash of the Order of the Garter. Perfect.
Did his Father received the Garter also ?

Yes, he did in 1988.

 

[Curryong]

Wasnt Harry wearing the Star of a Spanish Order tonight?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Catherine isn't wearing the order because the Queen doesn't think she has done enough to earn it - quite simple really.

As people have pointed out it could be made from something other than ivory so that can't be a reason which then leaves only that the Queen wants her to do more to earn it.

 

[cepe]

Wasnt Harry wearing the Star of a Spanish Order tonight?

I'll admit that I have no idea what the 2nd badge is, but I find it really hard to believe that Harry received a Spanish Order before William.

 

[Dman]

Catherine isn't wearing the order because the Queen doesn't think she has done enough to earn it - quite simple really.

As people have pointed out it could be made from something other than ivory so that can't be a reason which then leaves only that the Queen wants her to do more to earn it.

Twenty years you'll be saying the same thing, Iluvbertie. All while Catherine is working and about to embark on her next royal tour and there's another tour in the fall.

Folks can go on to ignore the work, but the proof is in the pudding.

 

[Pranter]

I really don't know why folks keep saying she's not doing enough....she's doing exactly what she is being asked to do. The Queen is not loaning out personal jewelry to someone she doesn't hold in high regard.

If she's not gotten an order (and she could of gotten them and not wearing due to the ivory issue) it's not because she's under-preforming.


LaRae

 

[Dman]

If Harry got a Spanish Order from The King, why wasn't this announced on the day of the State Visit? Something is just off in the royal household. When it comes to orders, the British royals just get very weird and strange. So many cobwebs that needs to be cleaned out and some transparency needs to be installed.

 

[Skippyboo]

Did Andrew, Anne get orders too? They are also participating by escorting the King and Queen tomorrow. If so, Spain is very Oprah like with their orders. You get an order, You get an order [emoji6]

 

[Dman]

Did Andrew, Anne get orders too? They are also participating by escorting the King and Queen tomorrow. If so, Spain is very Oprah like with their orders. You get an order, You get an order [emoji6]

No, they don't have any Spanish orders.

It appears Harry got one from The King. I'm not sure about William though. If there was some transparency about these orders and announcements about who got what and why a person haven't got one yet, a lot of confusion about these orders wouldn't occur.

Again, the British royals are just odd and weird with orders. It's all treated as some mysterious secret.

 

[Iluvbertie]

To the royals there is no confusion. It is only amongst royal watchers.

 

[Dman]

To the royals there is no confusion. It is only amongst royal watchers.

When there's a lack of transparency from the royal household and royals, royal watchers will always be confused. None of this stuff is hard to announce and mention.

Buckingham Palace can say a member of the royal family has received this order upon a State Visit. They can say within a year The Queen will award a senior member of the royal family with the family order. They are the ones that choose to keep everything like its an ancient secret that only the Gods are privy to.

Everyone knows it don't make sense Catherine hasn't received the family order after six years of service and still serving. It could've been announced that Harry has received an order on the day of the State Visit. Even Richard Palmer said the palace just don't want to say anything about it. That's plain dumb.

 

[Osipi]

And not the first time either (bringing to mind the lovely bracelet she's worn a couple times, wasn't that a wedding gift for the Queen also?)....IIRC.



LaRae

The bracelet you're referring to was designed by Philip and made with diamonds from his mother and was a wedding present to his wife. I don't think you can get more personal than that.

 

[VictoriaB]

Everyone knows it don't make sense Catherine hasn't received the family order after six years of service and still serving.

The fact that people are disagreeing with you suggests not everyone thinks it makes no sense that Kate hasn't received the RFO. It makes no sense to you but clearly it makes sense to the Queen or else she would have given it to her.

Once again, I suspect people on this board are getting more upset about this than the royals themselves.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The ivory issue makes zero comma zero sense. Does this mean that W & C will throw all piano's out of the palace, the billiard balls, the haircombs, the fans, the Scottish bagpipes, sculpured artworks, letter-openers, silver cutlery, ivory covers, ivory inlays of furniture and what not more?

Boy... order a dozen of containers to throw all out of the palace what contains ivory...

 

[Osipi]

The ivory issue makes zero comma zero sense. Does this mean that W & C will throw all piano's out of the palace, the billiard balls, the haircombs, the fans, the Scottish bagpipes, sculpured artworks, letter-openers, silver cutlery, ivory covers, ivory inlays of furniture and what not more?

Boy... order a dozen of containers to throw all out of the palace what contains ivory...

Problematic. First a committee would have be to be formed headed by Charles to assess and determine the best ecological means for disposal of these items and to ensure that the containers they are in are biodegradable and not harmful to the earth. They're best off left where they are and still admired for their beauty.

Disposing of things already made in ivory makes absolutely no sense whatsoever as its not going to bring the animal the ivory belonged to back. The Queen Mum had even gone on safari and bagged a few trophies herself back in the day.

To discontinue using ivory is a different matter and I'm behind United for Wildlife in that respect. Its the protection of the animal itself that provides the ivory and is working to prevent the illegal poaching for ivory.

We don't know the exact reasons behind the Queen's thinking on the RFO for Kate and most likely we never will. Personally, I'm of the opinion that instead of the RFO made of ivory for Kate, HM shows her appreciation of Kate's contribution to the family with the loan of her own personal jewelry.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Remember that a lot of the stuff made from ivory in the royal palaces doesn't belong to the royal family but to the nation as it is part of the Royal Collection and thus the royals can't actually dispose of it.

As DMan you seem to feel that HM hasn't done the right thing by Kate may I suggest that you write and tell her that Kate should have an order as obviously HM doesn't know what she is doing. Personally I think HM knows exactly what she is doing and why she hasn't given Kate any honours - we can speculate but we don't know - only HM knows the reason and she is the only one who can tell any of us. For all we know it could have been offered and Kate could have refused indicating that when William is King there won't be any such honours given and this is the start of their way of 'modernising' the monarchy.

 

[W.Y.CII]

That's all fine and great, but Catherine should already have the family order. The order can be made without ivory. No one is using their heads on this issue at all. This wouldn't be happening with Mary, Marie, Sophie, Camilla, Diana, Sofia or Maxima. For some odd reason Catherine is singled out over something that's very easy to solve. Simple stuff.

Honestly I don't see any unfairness about Kate doesn't receive RFO, and you cannot compare Kate to these ladies. Mary, Marie, Sophie, Camilla, Diana, Sofia and Maxima all are the spouse of monarch's child but not spouse of monarch's grandchild.

All recipients of RFO are member from the QEII's generation (e.g. her sister), previous generation (previous two queens) and younger generation (her children and their spouse). Although we don't know do her granddaughters have RFO, it is understandable for Kate (who from the 3rd generation) not receiving RFO (of course it'll be great if she has).

I think it is not (only) about QEII like you or not, but about which generation you are.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Honestly I don't see any unfairness about Kate doesn't receive RFO, and you cannot compare Kate to these ladies. Mary, Marie, Sophie, Camilla, Diana, Sofia and Maxima all are the spouse of monarch's child but not spouse of monarch's grandchild.

All recipients of RFO are member from the QEII's generation (e.g. her sister), previous generation (previous two queens) and younger generation (her children and their spouse). Although we don't know do her granddaughters have RFO, it is understandable for Kate (who from the 3rd generation) not receiving RFO (of course it'll be great if she has).

I think it is not (only) about QEII like you or not, but about which generation you are.

That makes very good sense, the generational differences.

 

[Dman]

Folks,

It's not about being of a different generation. I think it's totally wonderful that The Queen loans out personal jewels to Catherine. That's great. It's just beyond odd for Catherine to have gone this long without the family order.

No one can't make the argument that Catherine hasn't done enough engagements to receive the order. I mean the lady is doing her job as a senior member of the family.

The only possible reason why Catherine hasn't received the order is due to the used of ivory in the order. It's understandable, but it's just silly to not change the setting for her and let her wear it. Why leave her totally orderless at these events when everyone else get to wear theirs?

If I was Catherine, I would my Diamond Jubilee Medal to just have something on. Even that would look odd on a dress, lol.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

As only European Sovereign the Queen does not hand out orders to female consorts. See Doña Letizia with her Spanish Order. (While Félix of Luxembourg, Bernhard of the Netherlands, Henrik of Denmark and Claus of the Netherlands all received a British Order). Bernhard was even showered with four (!) British Orders.

So the RFO policy is not the only one raising eyebrows. The fact that Catherine received no Spanish Order is an answer in reciprocity. Only when a Sovereign ignores reciprocity and insists to show a personal token of esteem and honour to a British lady (Queen Juliana to Anne, Queen Beatrix to Diana) this pattern is broken.