The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Duchess of Kent was never awarded this order either. I am sure with all the orders Camilla is going to rank up as the Sovereign's spouse, she can let have her dedicated sister-in-law just have that one! :D
 
Queen Camilla said:
Why does Sophie have the Order of St. John but Camilla doesn't?

According to Wikipedia Sophie has the Dame of Justice of the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem (DStJ) but Camilla does not. Sophie received hers in 2005, after only 6 years of marriage.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

Camilla's maternal grandmother, Sonia Keppel Baroness Ashcombe was ordered an OBE (Order of the British Empire) and a DStJ what's according to Wikipedia stands for Dame of The Most Venerable Order of St. John of Jerusalem. This distinction is given to people who perform services and charitable organizations having to do with healthcare or illness. It's membership is limited to 35,000. . The Sovereign appoints to people to order.
I'm not familiar with all that the Countess of Wessex does but I think she has done a lot of work in these areas. The Queen felt she deserved recognition.
 
Last edited:
Imho...

I have just read through all 13 pages of this thread and as much as we can speculate on who will get what...I, for one, am happy enough to leave it up to the one person who has the best insight, intuition and understanding of the nuances of such things - HM The Queen. My thinking is that she is in the best position to judge such things and has so for, IMHO, not gone wrong yet.

It is my understanding that (royal) Garters only go to princes and princesses of the Blood Royal (excepted for Queens Consort)...therefore not to the Duchesses of Kent or Gloucester, Sophie, RA Laurence etc

As for earning vs bestowing such honours, HRH The DofE has twice declined Canadian honours because he felt that he had not eaned them. He just recently received/accepted the Companion of the Order of Canada (see below) and Commander of the Order of Military Merit based on substantive merit as opposed to honourary status. I think that many menber of the BRF would take the same approach.

Also, please keep in mind that many members of the BRF hold honouray positions in various armed forces of the UK and the Realms. It is because of this service and dedication that they are able to be acknowleged by the variours service arms. So, while the Princess Royal or say the Earl of Wessex may not have actively 'served', they have worked very hard for their associated services branches and my guess is that the members and veterans of these units are more that happy to see their Royal Colonels (etc) wearing their uniforms and decorations.
 

Attachments

  • O of C - PP.jpg
    O of C - PP.jpg
    20 KB · Views: 338
Last edited:
The DoE didn't decline the Canadian honours because he felt he hadn't earned them, he declined them because he felt that the way they were being offered wasn't acknowledging his position.

The first time he was offered the Order of Canada it was the position of honourary Companion, which he declined on the grounds that a the spouse of the monarch he was a Canadian citizen and consequently entitled to a real appointment. The second time it was offered, in 1993, the Advisory Council proposed changing the Order so that the spouse of the monarch was automatically a Companion, while the DoE believed that he should be appointed (if appointed at all) based on merits not simply his marriage.

His recent acceptance has been because changes have been made to allow members of the royal family to hold substantive appointments based on merit within the order. He had always earned them, that's why the first offer was given to him in 1982, but it took the Advisory Council 30 years to figure out how to appoint him in a manner that wasn't also an insult.
 
I agree, it's very nicely crafted.
 
I'd love to see close ups of several of the orders next to one another to see how similar/different they are. Queen Elizabeth has reigned so long, that if these are made to order, they may have been painted by different craftspeople. And likely the settings made/stones set by different people over the years. And I have also wondered if the stones are new or recycled?

I don't know that anyone knows how the family orders get made. One assumes it is the same craftspeople that make the OBEs etc., but maybe not.

Finally - can anyone ID the dress Elizabeth wears for her likeness on the order?
 
I answered my own question, sort of. The image for the family order is taken from the 1952 sitting with Dorothy Wilding. The dress, gems and look are the same, except that the head on version and the print of the dress are different.
The dress print was probably changed to make it paint-able in small size.
I'd guess that the image, relaxed and friendly as it was, was chosen by the queen for personal use.
FYI - here is what Wilding looked like - bless, her, cigarette and all!
Redirect Notice
 
TLLK said:
It's lovely. I know that I'd likely never be this close to one so thank you for the photo.
Click to expand...

You're welcome, I think Camilla has the First Class Order. I'm guessing Catherine has received hers or will soon. It's a personal gift from The Queen.
 
I didn't think the Royal Family order was split into classes anymore.
 
Nick Chance, LVO, JP, Private secretary to Prince Michael of Kent, was awarded Commander of the Royal Victoria Order for his service. What JP means?
 
I thought the Royal Victorian order was given for services to the Sovereign so why would Prince Michaels private secretary get it. I,m sure I saw in a previous honours list as well that Anne Frost one of the Princess' ladies in waiting got it too.
 
Edward and Sophie's assistant private secretary and her lady-in-waiting has received honours this year, and their other staff members have done as well. The RVO includes services to the Sovereign and her family, as well as the public as Sophie's GP received one when Louise was born. A few other doctors who were part of her life saving surgery were awarded, but the GP had nothing to do with but he still received an LVO for his services to General Gractice.
 
That's strange. If all these functionaries and government workers receive honours, why doesn't a Royal Highness receive them too?
 
angela said:
I thought the Royal Victorian order was given for services to the Sovereign so why would Prince Michaels private secretary get it. I,m sure I saw in a previous honours list as well that Anne Frost one of the Princess' ladies in waiting got it too.
Click to expand...

The Queen gives Royal Victorian Order for services to the Monarchy at large, meaning herself and her Royal family. Thus, courtiers and servants of members of the Royal Family, not only the Queen, are given this order as a sign of recognition of their work. For example, on the recent New Year's Honours, Stephen Joseph Towers has been awarded the Royal Victorian Medal for his service as chauffeur within the Duke of Kent’s Household.
 
Great George:
Great George | Royal Collection Trust

I couldn't help but to post this beautiful work of art. I know it must be heavy but I wouldn't mind seeing either Charles, William, Camilla or Catherine wearing this piece someday during the Garter service.
 
Dman said:
Great George:
Great George | Royal Collection Trust

I couldn't help but to post this beautiful work of art. I know it must be heavy but I wouldn't mind seeing either Charles, William, Camilla or Catherine wearing this piece someday during the Garter service.
Click to expand...

Isn't this the "George" that hangs on the chain of office? The minor George on the "bottom" of the sash? Question marks cos I am checking
 
I'm putting this here, as the Order of the Garter thread is under jewelry - and this is not a jewel question.
Royal Members of the garter have no limit, right? There can be only 25 knights, but can the sovereign do as they like with royal family?

And how often do in laws often count as "family" in the Order? I'm just asking - don't shoot me. The Duke of Edinburgh is a Royal Member, have there been many more?
 
:previous::previous:
Te li it of 25 is for actual members. There appears to be no limit for royal members or "stranger" members.

royals members have been limited but the reaso ing behind it lies in the head of the Monarch. for example HMQ eventually gave the Garter honour to all her children, but P Margaret never got it. HMQ gave the honour to her husbandand Charles will give the Garter to Camilla and so on.

Stranger knights - will the Queen giv another to Netherlands? She should IMO. Or Luxembourg? Or is there ahidden rule it is one per country. spouses of foreign sovereignsdo not get our highest honour.

i am on an ipad so aorry for typos
 
Actually George VI gave the garter to Philip the day before his wedding to Elizabeth.
 
I just want to apologise for the absolutely rubbish typing for my message #265 from my Ipad.

That deserves a detention, extra homework and cleaning up my room in double quick time. so sorry!
 
Order of the Garter

I understood that the Order consisted of The Sovereign, The Prince of Wales, no more that 24 "regular" Knights plus "Stranger or Extra" Knights and the Officers (of which there are 6 - some of whom may be members).

I think that the only restriction is on the "regular" Knights and the "extra" Knights are just that....extra. I think there are currently 15 extra or Stranger Knights (I think the more proper term)

I have seen "Royal" Knights which are members of the British Royal Family shown separately, but I think they may just be a category of Stranger Knights - i.e. not 1 of the 24 "regular" Knights.

There are currently 8 Royal Knights
D of Edinburgh
The Princess Royal
D of Kent
D of Gloucester
Pns Alexandra
D of York
E of Wessex
D of Cambridge

And 7 further foreign Royal Knights
GD Jean of Luxembourg
The Queen of Denmark
The King of Sweden
The King of Spain (Juan Carlos)
Princess (formerly Queen) of the Netherlands (Beatrix)
The Emperor of Japan
The King of Norway

As to cepe's question -

The GREATER George (as it is called) is the (often) heavily bejewelled pendant that hangs from the Collar of the Order. The LESSER George is the badge medallion that falls at the hip from the bow of the sash.


I have added a picture of HM's Lesser George (also quite bejewelled!)

Pictures - HM Greater George / a Lesser George / HM's Lesser George
 

Attachments

  • Orders - UK - Garter - great George.jpg
    Orders - UK - Garter - great George.jpg
    9 KB · Views: 486
  • Orders - lesser Geo - sample.jpg
    Orders - lesser Geo - sample.jpg
    18.9 KB · Views: 486
  • Orders - UK - Garter - Lesser George of QEII.jpg
    Orders - UK - Garter - Lesser George of QEII.jpg
    23.3 KB · Views: 521
Last edited:
Just read this on Twitter. Wonderful news!


The Duchess of Cornwall appointed Dame Grand Cross to the Royal Victorian Order by Queen Elizabeth II
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Marengo
The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 2: Sep 2022-
6 7 8
Replies
215
Views
13K
An Ard Ri
An Ard Ri
Marengo
Order of the Garter, Ceremonies and Information 2: 2022 -
Replies
28
Views
2K
An Ard Ri
An Ard Ri
Blog Real
St. George′s Church and the Mausoleum of Royal Family
Replies
2
Views
571
Blog Real
Blog Real
Marengo
British Royal Family Current Events 11: Sep 2022 -
7 8 9
Replies
250
Views
12K
An Ard Ri
An Ard Ri
Marengo
Royal Dukes, Royal Duchies and Royal Ducal Titles 2: 2022 -
2
Replies
36
Views
544
Tatiana Maria
T

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom