The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022

[Dman]

I do believe The Duke of Cambridge will receive the Order of Merit at some point. Lets not forget the he's second in-line to the throne and will be first in-line to the throne at some point. Then at some point down the line he will be Sovereign of The Order of Merit.

There's alot of Royal Orders that's coming William & Catherine and Harry's way.

 

[Artemisia]

Elizabeth was NOT The Heiress Presumptive during the reigns of either her grandfather or uncle.

In her grandfather's reign her uncle was The Heir Apparent.

In her uncle's reign her father was The Heiress Presumptive.

There can only be ONE Heir at a time.

She was 3rd in line during her grandfather's reign and 2nd in her uncle's but she became The Heiress Presumptive when her uncle abdicated.

She could be described as Heiress Presumptive to her father but not as Heiress Presumptive to the throne until her father became King.

I didn't say Princess Elizabeth was Heiress Presumptive to the Throne - but she was Heiress Presumptive to the Heir Presumptive to the Heir Apparent.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

^^^Very well stated and I concur.

 

[Artemisia]

I do believe The Duke of Cambridge will receive the Order of Merit at some point. Lets not forget the he's second in-line to the throne and will be first in-line to the throne at some point. Then at some point down the line he will be Sovereign of The Order of Merit.

There's alot of Royal Orders that's coming William & Catherine and Harry's way.

If Prince William receives an Order of Merit, it will be well into his father's reign.
Prince Charles had been Heir Apparent to the Throne for 50 years before his mother finally bestowed the Order of Merit upon him (in 2002http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Merit#cite_note-Memb-18).

 

[An Ard Ri]

No family Order for Sarah of York and Marie-Christine of Kent.

And that's bad why?

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Its difficult to determine the future by looking to the past. I agree HM has been rather 'stingy' with her orders and honours in the past but there have been some subtle signs this is changing and as Dman commented, I personally will not be surprised to see some of the 'junior' but very prominent members of the family receive public recognition from HM of their expanding roles with the firm.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I didn't say Princess Elizabeth was Heiress Presumptive to the Throne - but she was Heiress Presumptive to the Heir Presumptive to the Heir Apparent.

As you didn't specify the above then the only assumption is that you meant that she was Heiress Presumptive to the throne - as the term Heir/Heiress Apparent/Presumptive is used in the context 'of to a title' unless spelt out as referring to something different and as she couldn't inherit her father's title you could only be referring to the Throne.

 

[EIIR]

We must also remember that George V, by all accounts, absolutely adored the little Princess Elizabeth of York. He certainly could see in her the stuff of which successful monarchs are made, and (correct me if I'm wrong) actually indicated that he was sorry that the throne likely would not end up in her possession, as he assumed that Edward VIII would have a legitimate heir at some point.

If Prince William receives an Order of Merit, it will be well into his father's reign.
Prince Charles had been Heir Apparent to the Throne for 50 years before his mother finally bestowed the Order of Merit upon him (in 2002).

While I agree that HM made Charles wait a long time for the OM, it doesn't necessarily follow that Charles will do as his mother did. For example, I doubt very much that a King Charles III will give his spouse the OM, unlike QEII.

Charles will know that his reign is likely to be a relatively short one, so it would make sense that William get the OM early on to ensure that the continuity is there as Charles becomes increasingly elderly. It will ensure that William knows its mechanics as well as the current members well ahead of his suddenly becoming the Sovereign of an order which has been described as 'the pinnacle of the British honours system'.

 

[NGalitzine]

The OM is one of those orders that I believe should only be given to a member of the royal family for actual achievement. To be given the OM simply because one is a royal kind of diminishes the order for those who actually have achieved great things in their lifetimes. As one wag famously said "Thats why I like the Garter, there is no damn merit about it".
There are enough honours available for the royal family that do not involve actual achievements.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

I think HM, after 60 years on the throne is a pretty good judge of who in her family deserves honours and who doesn't.
The Duchess of Cornwall waited 7 years for the RVO but I think the Duchess of Cambridge will get it sooner rather than later but that doesn't mean Catherine is more 'deserving', just that HM makes certain decisions at certain times and doesn't give her reasons for her honours.

 

[wbenson]

Atremisia - is the sash intended to be worn this low? It looks to be riding underneath Prince Philips's Left armpit. It looks uncomfortable.
Image Upper.com - Free Image Hosting - View Image

I don't think it's actually under his armpit. With white tie, sashes can be shortened and attached to the coat. There would only be ribbon in the front.

 

[AdmirerUS]

I don't think it's actually under his armpit. With white tie, sashes can be shortened and attached to the coat. There would only be ribbon in the front.

Thanks for this explanation - I always wondered how guys managed this!

 

[EIIR]

The OM is one of those orders that I believe should only be given to a member of the royal family for actual achievement. To be given the OM simply because one is a royal kind of diminishes the order for those who actually have achieved great things in their lifetimes. As one wag famously said "Thats why I like the Garter, there is no damn merit about it".
There are enough honours available for the royal family that do not involve actual achievements.

I agree in principle, NGalitzine, but I think that if we're to accept that it's an Order with a Sovereign at its head, it makes complete sense to have the heir to the throne get membership before they accede to the throne. It ensures that the Order is able to seamlessly stay on track during the inevitable transition from one monarch to another.

I don't see why the OM shouldn't operate like the Garter in that the Sovereign and PoW are automatically members.

 

[NGalitzine]

I agree in principle, NGalitzine, but I think that if we're to accept that it's an Order with a Sovereign at its head, it makes complete sense to have the heir to the throne get membership before they accede to the throne. It ensures that the Order is able to seamlessly stay on track during the inevitable transition from one monarch to another.

I don't see why the OM shouldn't operate like the Garter in that the Sovereign and PoW are automatically members.

Well the sovereign is head of all honours but it does not necessarily follow that the heir must also have the honours or that there would be some sort of disruption at the time of succession if the heir has not received the honours. Charles for instance does not have the GCMG, the GCVO, the GBE, the CH or the DSO but he will one day be the sovereign of each order. I very much doubt QEII had all of the orders before her succession either but that did not present any problems when she became monarch. Even as sovereign does she ever actually wear the badge of an OM or CH?

The OM, in my mind, is something very special. It is one of those rare honours that even people who might refuse a knighthood will accept because it is a recognition of their exceptional achievement in their careers. Giving it to someone simply because they are royal or even an heir is not enough to justify giving it to them. I don't have a problem with Philip or Charles having it as they have given long service to the nation and to their charities, but the idea of William getting it simply because he might one day be monarch doesn't cut it with me.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

I don't think HM will give William the OM either. I do think and this is just a hunch, that William will be appointed to the Order of the Bath during HM's reign.
There is no precedent I'm aware of but since getting the Thistle in May, I believe the Bath will be next.

 

[wbenson]

The Order of the Bath would be surprising. It hasn't had all that many royal appointments, even back when orders were given out a little more freely. I think there may only be one in the past century who wasn't the Great Master or the former King and Sovereign of the order (Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, whose late husband had been the Great Master).

 

[Dman]

Picture of HRH The Princess of Wales Wearing Her Grand-cross order of the Order of the Crown (Netherlands):
http://myroyalobsession.tumblr.com/image/39610183770

 

[carlfraley]

I can swear I saw the family order of W IV on the royal collection website. Have to keep digging


Family order of King Edward VII

 

[carlfraley]

Also via the Royal Collection, Queen Alexandra had one .wow


http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/441474/family-order-of-queen-alexandra

 

[carlfraley]

Still looking

 

[Artemisia]

I can swear I saw the family order of W IV on the royal collection website. Have to keep digging

The order in your picture is that of Edward VII.
In regards to William IV Family Order, I believe no Family Order of the King existed worn as a badge on a ribbon.

On a slightly different note, there is a lovely picture of the very young Princess Victoria wearing a Family Order - that of George IV.

 

[Tiggersk8]

Who is pictured in the middle RFO? In between the top three and the cameo one. I know, or at least AFAIK, the bottom one is Queen Victoria's. Or so I've been told by a few books out there. Anyway...Anyone know who the middle one belongs to?

 

[carlfraley]

HM King George IV

 

[carlfraley]

The order in your picture is that of Edward VII.
In regards to William IV Family Order, I believe no Family Order of the King existed worn as a badge on a ribbon.

On a slightly different note, there is a lovely picture of the very young Princess Victoria wearing a Family Order - that of George IV.

Yes I'm aware it's edward vii, that's why I posted it

 

[Tiggersk8]

HM King George IV

Thanks for the answer!!

 

[carlfraley]

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/united-kingdom016.htm

 

[carlfraley]

Still looking

Family order of HM Queen Alexandra

 

[NGalitzine]

Family order of HM Queen Alexandra

I thought only the monarch had a Royal Family Order. Isn't Alexandras "order" something she would have given to her Mistress of Robes and Ladies of the Bedchamber?

 

[Lumutqueen]

I thought only the monarch had a Royal Family Order. Isn't Alexandras "order" something she would have given to her Mistress of Robes and Ladies of the Bedchamber?

Alexandra decided she wanted to have her own order, it is not a Royal one as you say that's only given by Monarchs. Although Victoria and Albert did share one.

The picture carlfraley posted is the version Alexandra would give to friends and family. There was another order given, as you rightly say to Mistress of Robes and Ladies of the Bedchamber, it was a similar but larger version of this Order, in which she was portrayed without her husband. Her successors as Queen Consort followed her example in providing a jewelled cameo portrait hung from a ribbon, to serve as a badge of office for their Mistresses of the Robes.

 

[carlfraley]

Alexandra decided she wanted to have her own order, it is not a Royal one as you say that's only given by Monarchs. Although Victoria and Albert did share one.

The picture carlfraley posted is the version Alexandra would give to friends and family. There was another order given, as you rightly say to Mistress of Robes and Ladies of the Bedchamber, it was a similar but larger version of this Order, in which she was portrayed without her husband. Her successors as Queen Consort followed her example in providing a jewelled cameo portrait hung from a ribbon, to serve as a badge of office for their Mistresses of the Robes.

I would love too see Queen Mary's