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  #941  
Old 04-07-2017, 02:09 PM
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Its all possible too that the Queen and Kate have already discussed this amongst themselves and have come to an agreement. There is no way that they're required to make their decisions public. From what I see, Kate has meshed very well into the British Royal Family, has provided the heir and the spare for the continuity of the monarchy and works well for the "Firm" on her own and as a team with her husband.

Everything Kate has done or has not done has been with the approval and the assent of the Queen herself. If the Queen had wanted her to be doing more before now, she would have.

We probably will never know the whys and the wherefores about who gets what and why as that's not our place to know what is behind a monarch's gifts.

As far as Diana, all throughout the years she was The Princess of Wales, there were turbulent times and discord among family members. The "job" she did as The Princess of Wales is what was expected and required of her and you don't receive accolades for doing what you're expected to do. Diana was too far removed from being part of the "team" that is the "Firm" to be given special acknowledgement in a knighthood. She was more interested in the public accolades and how the media presented her than she was in supporting the monarch she represented. Camilla, on the other hand, took on her role as Charles' wife in support of him and his family and wasn't looking for adulation or accolades. She worked with the Firm and supported the Firm and is a true consort to Charles and makes him happy. These perhaps are the reason that HM presented her with the GCVO and last June became a member of the Queen's Privy Counsel.

Of course this is all my own opinion.
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  #942  
Old 04-07-2017, 02:24 PM
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I have written this before and I know my opinion is not popular. Kate will never have a RFO from the queen. No one from her generation will.
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  #943  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Its all possible too that the Queen and Kate have already discussed this amongst themselves and have come to an agreement. There is no way that they're required to make their decisions public. From what I see, Kate has meshed very well into the British Royal Family, has provided the heir and the spare for the continuity of the monarchy and works well for the "Firm" on her own and as a team with her husband.

Everything Kate has done or has not done has been with the approval and the assent of the Queen herself. If the Queen had wanted her to be doing more before now, she would have.

We probably will never know the whys and the wherefores about who gets what and why as that's not our place to know what is behind a monarch's gifts.

As far as Diana, all throughout the years she was The Princess of Wales, there were turbulent times and discord among family members. The "job" she did as The Princess of Wales is what was expected and required of her and you don't receive accolades for doing what you're expected to do. Diana was too far removed from being part of the "team" that is the "Firm" to be given special acknowledgement in a knighthood. She was more interested in the public accolades and how the media presented her than she was in supporting the monarch she represented. Camilla, on the other hand, took on her role as Charles' wife in support of him and his family and wasn't looking for adulation or accolades. She worked with the Firm and supported the Firm and is a true consort to Charles and makes him happy. These perhaps are the reason that HM presented her with the GCVO and last June became a member of the Queen's Privy Counsel.

Of course this is all my own opinion.
Senior members of the royal family receive knighthoods for doing just what Diana did. Sophie, Anne, Camilla, Duchesses of Gloucester, Kent and others as well.

Now, we can't rely on the DM, but it was said that Catherine could receive a knighthood by The Queen this year. If not so, she should at least receive the family order by the Spanish State Visit. It's just time folks.


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Originally Posted by kyle View Post
I have written this before and I know my opinion is not popular. Kate will never have a RFO from the queen. No one from her generation will.
Catherine will get the family order, because her service began under Elizabeth II reign. The next one she will get is Charles's family order.
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  #944  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Catherine will get the family order, because her service began under Elizabeth II reign. The next one she will get is Charles's family order.
If the Queen dies tonight, Catherine will not get a family order from the Queen. Catherine's first family order will be from Charles. I stand by my opinion.
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  #945  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:16 PM
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The only princesses I can see who have the Garter are The Princess Royal, Princess Alexandra, and the Queen, who received it as Princess Elizabeth. Princess Alexandra didn't get hers until 2003, when she was 67 and had been doing royal duties since she was a teen.

As for the RVO, I expect that we'll see one after Prince Charles becomes King. As it is, Catherine is the Queen's grandson's wife, not her daughter-in-law. I think a lot of Catherine, but she isn't supporting the Queen in royal duties on a full-time basis yet.

Give it time. She'll wear one eventually.


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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I think one have to question The Queen's judgement on giving Orders. The late Princess of Wales worked very hard on behalf of the Monarchy and Commonwealth for sixteen years and never received a knighthood from her. This would have never happened under George V and her father.

Also, one can't say Catherine haven't done enough since 2011. The woman is about to embark on her second solo visit to a foreign country next month. The problem is The Queen have a problem giving her family a pat on the back for working on her behalf. Allowing Catherine to attend State Visits and The Diplomatic Corps Reception even without the family order is pretty careless and very inconsiderate.

I love the Queen but I think she's a bit off on this issue.
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  #946  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle View Post
If the Queen dies tonight, Catherine will not get a family order from the Queen. Catherine's first family order will be from Charles. I stand by my opinion.
Her service began under The Queen. Just like Camilla, Diana, Sophie, Katherine, Brigitte, etc. She will be given the order by her. Charles will present Catherine with his when he comes to the throne. That's how it works.


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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
The only princesses I can see who have the Garter are The Princess Royal, Princess Alexandra, and the Queen, who received it as Princess Elizabeth. Princess Alexandra didn't get hers until 2003, when she was 67 and had been doing royal duties since she was a teen.

As for the RVO, I expect that we'll see one after Prince Charles becomes King. As it is, Catherine is the Queen's grandson's wife, not her daughter-in-law. I think a lot of Catherine, but she isn't supporting the Queen in royal duties on a full-time basis yet.

Give it time. She'll wear one eventually.
They're transitioning to full time duties this year. Why dismiss all the work she's done on behalf of The Queen, UK and Commonwealth since 2011 though? Shouldn't she at least have the Royal Family Order of Queen Elizabeth II? Why leave her orderless when she's attending events where the order is required? She's third lady of the land.

I think the Garter will come when Charles comes to the throne. I think she and Camilla will be receiving it.
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  #947  
Old 04-07-2017, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have no problem with her not having an order at all.

I bet you do....
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  #948  
Old 04-07-2017, 06:54 PM
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I bet you do....
Please explain as I have no idea what you are saying or implying.
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  #949  
Old 04-07-2017, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Her service began under The Queen. Just like Camilla, Diana, Sophie, Katherine, Brigitte, etc. She will be given the order by her. Charles will present Catherine with his when he comes to the throne. That's how it works.
You don't know if the Queen is going to ever give it to her at all.

You have made you views plain but you are trying to make hard and fast rules for HM's honours which don't exist.

Maybe the Queen has decided to not give her order to any grandchildren or grandchildren in law or maybe she will give it to all of them. As it appears she hasn't given it to her own granddaughters yet she may have decided to wait until Beatrice and Eugenie are able to attend an appropriate event before giving it to anyone in that generation.

I have no idea what is going on in the Queen's thinking. Why do you?



Quote:
They're transitioning to full time duties this year. Why dismiss all the work she's done on behalf of The Queen, UK and Commonwealth since 2011 though? Shouldn't she at least have the Royal Family Order of Queen Elizabeth II? Why leave her orderless when she's attending events where the order is required? She's third lady of the land.
Once bitten - twice shy comes to mind. She gave the order to Diana early in her marriage but within a few years, if not months, it was clear that the marriage was in trouble.

She hasn't done that much.

If you want to know why she is 'orderless' then write to the Queen and ask her.

There is no event where orders are 'required'. If a person has an order they wear them. If they were 'required' then she would either have an order or would not have attended those events as she doesn't have an order.

Quote:
I think the Garter will come when Charles comes to the throne. I think she and Camilla will be receiving it.
Tradition says she will wait until William is King for the Garter.

Edward VII gave it to Alexandra, George V to Mary, George VI to Elizabeth (and prior to Edward VII the Queens Consort didn't get the Garter) but they were awarded early in the reign of each new King and not in the reign of the previous kings.

Charles will give the Garter to Camilla and probably Harry and even possibly George, while William will get to give it to Katherine and maybe Charlotte.
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  #950  
Old 04-07-2017, 07:19 PM
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Yes, Catherine has done a lot since becoming a senior royal in 2011. Also, with The Queen and Duke of Edinburgh handing down some of their patronages, she's about to do even more.

Yes, Charles and Diana hash problems, but that don't mean she should've dismissed Diana's official role and duties within the family. The previous Princess of Waleses did far less than she did and they got their family orders and some.

I'm not sure Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie would have the family orders. Catherine is a senior official working member of the family and one would think she should have the order by this time. Now, perhaps once they make the official transition this year, orders would be given.

I can't complain too much though. The Tuvalu Order of Merit is impressive, especially since it's a new foreign order. I don't think we'll get a chance to see her wear it unless she's attending an event that's Tuvalu related. If I'm correct on that.
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  #951  
Old 04-07-2017, 07:56 PM
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The Garter isn't a valid comparison tool. No one who married into the family other than Philip who is the consort has the Garter. There are plenty of lower orders given to people who married into the family even Tony Armstrong Jones got a GCVO in 1969.
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  #952  
Old 04-07-2017, 07:57 PM
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Do we really know that Kate doesn't have the RFO? She could have received it years ago but there were no occasions for her to wear it to until after the Royal Foundation started its huge campaign against poaching and illegal trade and its stance against the ivory trade.

When the occasion did arise for her to wear her RFO, that conundrum with the ivory set in and as she already has the RFO tucked away in her jewel box, instead of wearing it, she stood with her husband on the issue of ivory and the Queen understood and made the gesture of lending the wedding bracelet.

This is as plausible as any other guesswork on how the Queen feels about giving her RFO and orders. That's all we're doing here. Guess work.
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  #953  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Do we really know that Kate doesn't have the RFO? She could have received it years ago but there were no occasions for her to wear it to until after the Royal Foundation started its huge campaign against poaching and illegal trade and its stance against the ivory trade.

When the occasion did arise for her to wear her RFO, that conundrum with the ivory set in and as she already has the RFO tucked away in her jewel box, instead of wearing it, she stood with her husband on the issue of ivory and the Queen understood and made the gesture of lending the wedding bracelet.

This is as plausible as any other guesswork on how the Queen feels about giving her RFO and orders. That's all we're doing here. Guess work.
It's a possibility she already have it. Then again, why not have it made without ivory so she can proudly wear her family order? I would change the setting for her. I'm sure the royal jeweler can do this. It just don't make any sense to leave her without the family order though. The Queen, Anne, Camilla, Sophie, Birgitte, and Alexandra get to wear theirs, the same should go for Catherine. It's all so obvious during State Banquets and Diplomatic Corps Receptions.
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  #954  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:01 PM
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It's a possibility she already have it. Then again, why not have it made without ivory so she can proudly wear her family order? I would change the setting for her. I'm sure the royal jeweler can do this. It just don't make any sense to leave her without the family order though. The Queen, Anne, Camilla, Sophie, Birgitte, and Alexandra get to wear theirs, the same should go for Catherine. It's all so obvious during State Banquets and Diplomatic Corps Receptions.
Maybe, just maybe, its not that big of a deal for those among the family. If I was Kate, I'd feel more honored and accepted wearing something of the Queen's that no one else has ever worn before. But.... that's just me.
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  #955  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:22 PM
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The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations

If they remake it without the ivory, then it has to been announced that it's not ivory otherwise it defeats the purpose. Then the press will ask why all the women are still wearing the ivory ones. It is also an item that probably not cheap to make. The portrait would have to be redone on the new base and then switched out with may or may not be an easy thing to do. If it cost a thousand pounds or so, they press would make a big deal out of it.
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  #956  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
If they remake it without the ivory, then it has to been announced that it's not ivory otherwise it defeats the purpose. Then the press will ask why all the women are still wearing the ivory ones. It is also an item that probably not cheap to make. The portrait would have to be redone on the new base and then switched out with may or may not be an easy thing to do. If it cost a thousand pounds or so, they press would make a big deal out of it.


I agree. This has always been what I think of as the issue around this. If they just wait, Charles' order can be made of new materials for everyone.
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  #957  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
If they remake it without the ivory, then it has to been announced that it's not ivory otherwise it defeats the purpose. Then the press will ask why all the women are still wearing the ivory ones.
They can simply state that Catherine's order was made differently because of William's issue on ivory. They can also say that all orders will be changed in the next reign. The idea is for Catherine to not go without the family order.
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  #958  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:40 PM
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They could also redo the Queen's RFO when they do Charles's. There are only 5 ladies now that would wear the Queen's with Charles's (Anne, Sophie, Camilla, Duchess of Gloucester and Alexandra). Kate would be the sixth. No one would have the order for George V and only Alexandra has George VI.
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  #959  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:37 PM
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I've lost count on how many times we've had the exact same discussion on this topic...

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  #960  
Old 04-08-2017, 12:24 AM
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I've lost count on how many times we've had the exact same discussion on this topic...

Indeed. We have no idea what is actually the truth and there are multiple valid explanations. But it's not worth harping on, because none of us know the facts!
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