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  #861  
Old 01-07-2017, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Yes, it is her decision. Time to raise some voices in the media and so it can reach the Palace so she can make an actual decision.

I would suggest Richard Palmer, Emily Andrews, Camilla Tominey and others start writing some reports about it and ask the Palace officials about Catherine missing family order. Maybe bring it to the Palace attention would help.
Good grief! Whatever are you thinking implying that HM is incapable of making her own decisions for her own reasons? HM harangued by the press to give Catherine a family order. Do you really think HM would ever be seen to be forced to do so under pressure from the tabloids?

All this personal angst over a family order for Catherine because, in your opinion, she deserves one. The Queen has always treated her family fairly and does not take out an advert to defend her decisions to those who have no clue as to why she made them. Now you advocate a media assault by the very worst tabloids to harass her over such trivia.

The last time the media took it into their heads to harangue HM, it did not end well!
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  #862  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Ach... let us hope King Willem-Alexander makes a State Visit to the royal neighbours overseas. Then we can be sure that Catherine will be given an Order, as the Dutch seems not to care about reciprocity ("My Máxima no Order? Then your Camilla or Catherine no Order!"). They just seems to grant one as a token of personal appreciation and goodwill ;-)

See Diana's note with her only foreign royal Order: picture
The Dutch monarch has an generous policy regarding orders, but I'm not sure whether these order would extent to grandchildren (in law) of a monarch. For example, the Dukes of Kent and Gloucester didn't receive Dutch orders during state visits.
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  #863  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Good grief! Whatever are you thinking implying that HM is incapable of making her own decisions for her own reasons? HM harangued by the press to give Catherine a family order. Do you really think HM would ever be seen to be forced to do so under pressure from the tabloids?

All this personal angst over a family order for Catherine because, in your opinion, she deserves one. The Queen has always treated her family fairly and does not take out an advert to defend her decisions to those who have no clue as to why she made them. Now you advocate a media assault by the very worst tabloids to harass her over such trivia.

The last time the media took it into their heads to harangue HM, it did not end well!
First of all...I have never advocated for the media to launch an assault on Her Majesty. I simply think the media should bring it up and ask some questions. Especially, if Catherine shows up to another state event without the family order. It's pretty natural for questions to be asked after all this time.
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  #864  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
First of all...I have never advocated for the media to launch an assault on Her Majesty. I simply think the media should bring it up and ask some questions. Especially, if Catherine shows up to another state event without the family order. It's pretty natural for questions to be asked after all this time.
If there would come an answer from Buckingham Palace, it would be something like: 'We can't comment on this, this is the Queen's own, personal decision'. That would be it.
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  #865  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Arrjann View Post
If there would come an answer from Buckingham Palace, it would be something like: 'We can't comment on this, this is the Queen's own, personal decision'. That would be it.
No harm in asking and reporting about the topic though.
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  #866  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:28 AM
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What percentage of the population of the UK do any of us think give a fig about the Family Order that should incite an Honours Uprising?
Sorry - the grammar in that sentence is a horror. But you all get my meaning.
Surely there are better uses of Journos time than to begin a seething inquiry into a very singular honor, rarely seen in public anyway.
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  #867  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
What percentage of the population of the UK do any of us think give a fig about the Family Order that should incite an Honours Uprising?
Sorry - the grammar in that sentence is a horror. But you all get my meaning.
Surely there are better uses of Journos time than to begin a seething inquiry into a very singular honor, rarely seen in public anyway.
I think it's worth it, but I'm weird so don't mind me.
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  #868  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
No harm in asking and reporting about the topic though.
This could become a "be careful what you wish for" situation. I don't think it's a given if journalists and opinion writers started reporting on Kate not having the RFO that Kate would come out favorably. As far as we know, Kate is the only royal woman who has worn the Queen's engagement bracelet and maybe proponents of Kate should focus on that particular honor.
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  #869  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:47 AM
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I think it's worth it, but I'm weird so don't mind me.
Awwww... you're not weird. You have opinions and make good arguments and stick to what you believe in. I admire that in a man.
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  #870  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:52 AM
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So, after checking back into this thread, I decided to do a little research on these theories. I have always felt that Catherine will never have a royal order from the Queen.

My current reason is William's firm view on ivory.

Prince William urges leaders to support full ivory trade ban - CBBC Newsround

There even was a rumour that he wanted all the ivory in Buckingham Palace destroyed in 2014.
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  #871  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:52 AM
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The idea that the media asking why Kate doesn't have the RFO and that it will end with Kate getting it is mad. If they do make a fuss about it it will IMO mean if Kate doesn't have it , she will have to wait even longer while the fuss died down.
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  #872  
Old 01-07-2017, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Awwww... you're not weird. You have opinions and make good arguments and stick to what you believe in. I admire that in a man.
Maybe The Queen will soon appoint her to a knighthood and give her the family order at the sametime. Or something like that. I'm just noticing the absence of the family order on the third lady of the land after nearly six years and attending the events where its worn. Little concerning to me. It stands really stands out when she's around the family that has it too.
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  #873  
Old 01-07-2017, 11:36 AM
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We just don't know and probably never will. I'm really of the opinion that the Cambridges are gearing up to be full time working royals and with that, who knows how the Queen will show her appreciation?
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  #874  
Old 01-07-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Maybe The Queen will soon appoint her to a knighthood and give her the family order at the sametime. Or something like that. I'm just noticing the absence of the family order on the third lady of the land after nearly six years and attending the events where its worn. Little concerning to me. It stands really stands out when she's around the family that has it too.
She isn't the third lady in the land, either private or public. She falls much lower in the line if precedence even when William is there.

Sophie, who is higher. Had to wait five years, working as a full time Royal. Camilla who is higher than her, had to wait two years as a full time Royal and consort of the heir to the throne. Fergie who was higher than Kate's current position, never got it in seven years.

The fact is when she us at these events she is surrounded by1 women who have been in the family much longer than her 2 who are full time royals.


You keep insisting the yorks will never have it, becayse they aren't full time royals (ignoring that is never been a requirement) but then ignore the same thing about Kate. If Beatrice only doing part time duties abd oatronages as a granddaughter if the queen is not entitled, why is Kate a snub??
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  #875  
Old 01-07-2017, 12:58 PM
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So the only ones who could receive the order (because they are family) and we're either sure they haven't or unsure they have, are:
Duchess of Cambridge
P.Beatrix
P.Eugenie
Zara Tindall
Princess Michael of Kent
right?

Or could for instance also Lady Sarah Chatto get it if HM wanted it, or Lady Helen Taylor for instance?
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  #876  
Old 01-07-2017, 01:07 PM
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I don't believe Zara is eligible for it because while she's family, she's not a member of the Royal Family (she herself is not royal). Likewise with Sarah Chatto, Helen Windsor, and the other female members of the extended family.
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  #877  
Old 01-07-2017, 01:13 PM
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Not to get the thread off topic but precedence not regulated by law is that granted at Court and this is a matter for The Queen.

Royal peers can no longer sit in parliament, so at Court, William and Catherine are treated as the third couple in the land. There are no examples of Andrew or Edward having precedence over William and there are no examples of Sophie, Beatrice or Eugenie having precedence over Catherine.

Even in the royal box at Wimbledon last year Catherine had pride of place over Sophie. It was Kate who was sat between the Chairman and his wife, not Sophie.
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  #878  
Old 01-07-2017, 02:01 PM
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I don't believe Zara is eligible for it because while she's family, she's not a member of the Royal Family (she herself is not royal). Likewise with Sarah Chatto, Helen Windsor, and the other female members of the extended family.

Zara is a member of the Royal family, simply an untitled one. As has been established a number of times in this thread, the order has been granted to extended family from the start. Including foreign family members. This has never been restricted to senior royals, or even ones with British titles. It is simply a gift from the monarch to female members of the family. Elizabeth had simply been far more stingy in handing out. Also the number of events the tended family attends. Which requires wearing the order, is much lower. The countess of althone had five orders, though the closest she came to the thrine was granddaughter to the first one she was given it from. Victoria.
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  #879  
Old 01-07-2017, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Zara is a member of the Royal family, simply an untitled one. As has been established a number of times in this thread, the order has been granted to extended family from the start. Including foreign family members. This has never been restricted to senior royals, or even ones with British titles. It is simply a gift from the monarch to female members of the family. Elizabeth had simply been far more stingy in handing out. Also the number of events the tended family attends. Which requires wearing the order, is much lower. The countess of althone had five orders, though the closest she came to the thrine was granddaughter to the first one she was given it from. Victoria.
No, Zara is not a member of the Royal family. A distinction can be made here: a member of the Royal family is a member of the Queen's family (extended or otherwise) who is also a British Royal. Those family members who do not hold British Royal Titles and therefore are not British Royals, like Zara, are not members of the British Royal Family.

The Queen's family are those who are related to her. This includes her not royal grandchildren, her not royal son-in-law, and her not royal nephew and niece. The British Royal Family is the individuals in the Queen's family who also hold British Royal titles. They are:
  • Her Majesty the Queen
  • His Royal Highness The Duke of Edinburgh
  • His Royal Highness The Prince of Wales
  • Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cornwall
  • His Royal Highness The Duke of Cambridge
  • Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cambridge
  • His Royal Highness Prince George of Cambridge
  • Her Royal Highness Princess Charlotte of Cambridge
  • His Royal Highness The Duke of York
  • Her Royal Highness Princess Beatrice of York
  • Her Royal Highness Princess Eugenie of York
  • His Royal Highness The Earl of Wessex
  • Her Royal Highness The Countess of Wessex
  • Her Royal Highness The Princess Royal
  • His Royal Highness The Duke of Gloucester
  • Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Gloucester
  • His Royal Highness The Duke of Kent
  • Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Kent
  • His Royal Highness Prince Michael of Kent
  • Her Royal Highness Princess Michael of Kent
  • Her Royal Highness Princess Alexandra, The Honourable Lady Ogilvy
The Countess of Athlone, more properly HRH Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone, was a member of the British Royal Family, being a British Royal. Thus she was eligible to receive honours like the RFO.
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  #880  
Old 01-07-2017, 04:25 PM
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There is absolutely no stipulation that the RFO has to be given to a British Royal, none. Simply a member of the family. How many foreign grandchildren did Victoria give it to?

It is a gift, to female members of the family plain and simple. It is up to the monarch to decide who is granted it.
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