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  #841  
Old 01-05-2017, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
It is her majesty's decision Live with it.
Yes, it is her decision. Time to raise some voices in the media and so it can reach the Palace so she can make an actual decision.

I would suggest Richard Palmer, Emily Andrews, Camilla Tominey and others start writing some reports about it and ask the Palace officials about Catherine missing family order. Maybe bring it to the Palace attention would help.
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  #842  
Old 01-05-2017, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Yes, it is her decision. Time to raise some voices in the media and so it can reach the Palace so she can make an actual decision.

I would suggest Richard Palmer, Emily Andrews, Camilla Tominey and others start writing some reports about it and ask the Palace officials about Catherine missing family order. Maybe bring it to the Palace attention would help.
I would suggest that the ball is now in your court. Over to you
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  #843  
Old 01-05-2017, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Yes, it is her decision. Time to raise some voices in the media and so it can reach the Palace so she can make an actual decision.
She has made a decision - NO.

Just because she hasn't made the decision you think she should make doesn't mean she hasn't made that decision.

She has her reasons for that decision and we have to accept that. To do otherwise is to show a total disregard for HM and her rights and is totally disrespectful of her.

Quote:
I would suggest Richard Palmer, Emily Andrews, Camilla Tominey and others start writing some reports about it and ask the Palace officials about Catherine missing family order. Maybe bring it to the Palace attention would help.
Why? It is a personal gift so why would anyone - other than you - really care?

Are you secretly Kate trying to influence HM through this forum???
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  #844  
Old 01-05-2017, 09:18 PM
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I agree iluvbertie, it's a personal gift and doesn't need a petition. It's not like the queen has gone senile and needs reminding she hasn't given it to Kate. She will give it if and when she chooses.
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  #845  
Old 01-05-2017, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
She has made a decision - NO.

Just because she hasn't made the decision you think she should make doesn't mean she hasn't made that decision.

She has her reasons for that decision and we have to accept that. To do otherwise is to show a total disregard for HM and her rights and is totally disrespectful of her.



Why? It is a personal gift so why would anyone - other than you - really care?

Are you secretly Kate trying to influence HM through this forum???

Lol, no! Just looking for answers. Better than just going with senseless speculations.
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  #846  
Old 01-05-2017, 10:02 PM
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The answer is simple:

The award is in the personal gift of HM. If it has been awarded it would be being worn so as it isn't being worn it hasn't been given.

That is all the answer you need.

To ask here 'why not' is the wrong place. To get an answer to that question you need to write directly to HM and ask her in person as she is the one who makes the decision.

All we can do here is speculate.
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  #847  
Old 01-05-2017, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The answer is simple:

The award is in the personal gift of HM. If it has been awarded it would be being worn so as it isn't being worn it hasn't been given.

That is all the answer you need.

To ask here 'why not' is the wrong place. To get an answer to that question you need to write directly to HM and ask her in person as she is the one who makes the decision.

All we can do here is speculate.
It's not an award but a family gift to the senior female members of the royal family. It's given to be worn at State evening events. Catherine is a senior royal, who attends state evening events. She should be given the gift.

Now, just maybe Catherine needs to be a full time royal. Hopefully the Cambridge's will make that transition this year, once Williams contract is up. Then again you never know with William. He may get a job with the circus next.
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  #848  
Old 01-05-2017, 11:53 PM
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Was anyone able to answer this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post

What happens to the RFOs of royals who have passed. Do they reused them? For example, Queen Mary's Elizabeth did it get given to a royal lady 20 years later? The Queen is the only one with a George V and Alexandra is the only other with a George VI besides the Queen's. Where are the RFOs that were the Queen Mum and Margaret's? Do they take the precious stones from older monarch's RFOs and reset them into the new monarch's order? I can't see them buying new diamonds each time there is a new monarch.
If it is a personal gift, wouldn't it be theirs to do with as they please? Did Lady Sarah Chatto inherit Princess Margaret's RFO? (inherit, not wear it personally) Lady Sarah Chatto could potentially be another person who has the RFO but has no occasion to wear it. She is said to be favored by QEII.

I think we spend more time speculating on whether Catherine has an order or not, more than the Catherine and others in the royal family.

The Duchess of Cambridge wearing the wedding bracelet is significant to show that there is a positive relationship between her and the Queen. Have we seen any other member of the royal family wear that bracelet?

My opinion is that Catherine should receive the RFO soon. She has been a senior member of the royal family for 5 years, has committed to many charities, worked at being an active part of the Firm, and has produced and heir and a spare for the monarchy. As a the mother of a future king, she should have QEII RFO.

Catherine is a senior working member and deserves the RFO at this point. I can understand the Queen wanting to wait to see how the married life was for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. They seem very committed to each other and genuinely like/love each other.

As to whether or not The Queen's granddaughters have performed the duties or are deemed worthy enough to earn her RFO. They haven't and therefore they don't have the order. Life isn't fair, and there probably isn't another family that is more aware of birth order or titles. Do you honestly think the other granddaughters would feel slighted by not getting the RFO if Catherine would receive one?
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  #849  
Old 01-06-2017, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretijean View Post
Was anyone able to answer this?



If it is a personal gift, wouldn't it be theirs to do with as they please? Did Lady Sarah Chatto inherit Princess Margaret's RFO? (inherit, not wear it personally) Lady Sarah Chatto could potentially be another person who has the RFO but has no occasion to wear it. She is said to be favored by QEII.

I think we spend more time speculating on whether Catherine has an order or not, more than the Catherine and others in the royal family.

The Duchess of Cambridge wearing the wedding bracelet is significant to show that there is a positive relationship between her and the Queen. Have we seen any other member of the royal family wear that bracelet?

My opinion is that Catherine should receive the RFO soon. She has been a senior member of the royal family for 5 years, has committed to many charities, worked at being an active part of the Firm, and has produced and heir and a spare for the monarchy. As a the mother of a future king, she should have QEII RFO.

Catherine is a senior working member and deserves the RFO at this point. I can understand the Queen wanting to wait to see how the married life was for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. They seem very committed to each other and genuinely like/love each other.

As to whether or not The Queen's granddaughters have performed the duties or are deemed worthy enough to earn her RFO. They haven't and therefore they don't have the order. Life isn't fair, and there probably isn't another family that is more aware of birth order or titles. Do you honestly think the other granddaughters would feel slighted by not getting the RFO if Catherine would receive one?
No, Catherine is a senior working member of the royal family. It's meant to be gifted to the senior royal ladies. She's the third lady of the land. This doesn't apply to Sarah Chatto and the York sisters. If the York girls became official working members of the royal family, they would have the family order.
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  #850  
Old 01-06-2017, 12:46 AM
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We do NOT know whether the York girls or Zara or Sarah have it or not. It isn't only given to working royals but to whomever HM chooses. She may have given to her granddaughters and niece at some time or not - we don't know.

We don't know why she gives it to one person and not another.

We do know that we don't know and to say 'xxxxx' doesn't have it based on 'we haven't seen them at an event where they would wear it' is not proof.

We know Kate doesn't have it as she has been to events where it would be worn if she had it.

We don't know anything else about the younger female royals. It is equally wrong to say they don't have it because they don't work for the Firm as it is to demand that Kate gets it because she does.

It is the personal gift of HM and it is up to the Queen alone to decide the who, when and why someone gets it or doesn't get it.
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  #851  
Old 01-06-2017, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
No, Catherine is a senior working member of the royal family. It's meant to be gifted to the senior royal ladies. She's the third lady of the land. This doesn't apply to Sarah Chatto and the York sisters. If the York girls became official working members of the royal family, they would have the family order.
No, it is meant to be given to female members if the family. No where ties it require seniority or working royal. This has clearly been showcased over the years with women far more removed from the throne, bring granted them. With previous monarchs there were different degrees/classes, denoting his close one was to the throne. This was never more clear than with Victoria who gave it to every dinged granddaughter, including foreign ones. Beatrice and Eugenie are both senior royals as granddaughters if the queen in the male line and have been representing charities for years now.
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  #852  
Old 01-06-2017, 02:06 AM
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Okay, this system of the British royal family orders need to change and be updated. It's so easy to understand the Danish, Swedish, Spanish and Norwegian orders, but the British is beyond complicated and shrouded in too much mystery.

It is wrong to have Catherine attending these events without being properly dressed in her family order.

Also, it's alright to question The Queen's system of not giving this gift to a senior female member of the family. Especially when that senior royal is officially representing her around the U.K. And Commonwealth for nearly six years and still have to go about without the family order. Also, watching other members of her family proudly wearing theirs.

Maybe since it's Catherine who don't have it is causing some people to think it's alright. If it was Camilla or Sophie in this position, some folks would be singing a different tune, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
No, it is meant to be given to female members if the family. No where ties it require seniority or working royal. This has clearly been showcased over the years with women far more removed from the throne, bring granted them. With previous monarchs there were different degrees/classes, denoting his close one was to the throne. This was never more clear than with Victoria who gave it to every dinged granddaughter, including foreign ones. Beatrice and Eugenie are both senior royals as granddaughters if the queen in the male line and have been representing charities for years now.
Beatrice and Eugenie aren't senior members of the royal family. They are titled through their father, but don't work on behalf of the Monarch. If they became official working members of the royal family, yes, they would have the family order. Prince Andrew just straightened this situation out in a statement last year.
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  #853  
Old 01-06-2017, 02:34 AM
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Its entirely possible that Kate has had the RFO for a while and with the issue of ivory, that has been resolved by Kate wearing the wedding bracelet in its stead as the RFO is a gift from the Queen and the wedding bracelet is a gift loan from the Queen. Perhaps it signifies the same thing and the RFO itself is in Kate's jewel vault somewhere and coveted. We don't know.

To make demands or to put questions to something that is clearly and understandably known to be a gift from the Queen is not within anyone's right to make points about. Would we feel that we have the right to decide just what is good and what isn't for the Queen to give as Christmas gifts? No. I don't think so. The RFO and her Christmas gifts are comparable in this case.

The way the RFO works will change in the future. That is a given. It will then be up to King Charles III to gift the RFO as he chooses. For all we know, he could decide that for his, he wants a picture of his namesake frog on it. Its his prerogative.
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  #854  
Old 01-06-2017, 02:40 AM
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Here's a thought: When's the last time the RFO has been given to the wife of a grandson of the monarch or the grand-daughter of a monarch?
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  #855  
Old 01-06-2017, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Here's a thought: When's the last time the RFO has been given to the wife of a grandson of the monarch or the grand-daughter of a monarch?
I know Queen Mary received her Victoria and Albert order on the day of her wedding.
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  #856  
Old 01-06-2017, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Okay, this system of the British royal family orders need to change and be updated. It's so easy to understand the Danish, Swedish, Spanish and Norwegian orders, but the British is beyond complicated and shrouded in too much mystery.

It is wrong to have Catherine attending these events without being properly dressed in her family order.

Also, it's alright to question The Queen's system of not giving this gift to a senior female member of the family. Especially when that senior royal is officially representing her around the U.K. And Commonwealth for nearly six years and still have to go about without the family order. Also, watching other members of her family proudly wearing theirs.

Maybe since it's Catherine who don't have it is causing some people to think it's alright. If it was Camilla or Sophie in this position, some folks would be singing a different tune, IMO.



Beatrice and Eugenie aren't senior members of the royal family. They are titled through their father, but don't work on behalf of the Monarch. If they became official working members of the royal family, yes, they would have the family order. Prince Andrew just straightened this situation out in a statement last year.

You seem to keep intentionally missing two points

1 there is a difference between senior royal and working royal. You can be both, you can be one or the other. Princess Alexandra is a working Royal. But is not a senior Royal. Beatrice us a senior Royal, but not working. And William us both.

2 there us absolutely nothing in the RFO which says they have to be either. Simply a member of the family. If they font have it, they are the only granddaughters if a British monarch since Queen Victoria, not to have it. alice of althone was never wiring, but had five of them, the closest she came to the throne was the first order dye had, her grandmother vicious. The fife girls had the order for their uncle, cousin and his son, yet were neither working or senior royals.

I know you are on dome crusade to she a petition to right some conceived slight to Kate, but facts are facts.
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  #857  
Old 01-06-2017, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Here's a thought: When's the last time the RFO has been given to the wife of a grandson of the monarch or the grand-daughter of a monarch?
As pointed out a few times, all of Victoria's granddaughters, even Foreign ones, were given them. It was also customary for monarchs to give them to their nieces.
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  #858  
Old 01-06-2017, 03:16 AM
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It is part of fun to speculate. Du moment that Catherine has her RFO, we will start speculating about the future Princess Harry and her RFO... ;-)
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  #859  
Old 01-06-2017, 03:33 AM
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There shouldn't have to be any speculations. After a year or two, the senior royal ladies should at least the family order. Or even gift it after the weddings.

Catherine shouldn't be going this long without the family order. If she and William go to a foreign royal event and orders are required to be worn, Catherine will be the only senior royal lady present without a family order. It looks odd at the State Banquet, diplomatic corps receptions, and will most definitely look extremely odd at a foreign royal event.

I'm dropping it now. Don't care anymore about it.
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  #860  
Old 01-06-2017, 04:33 AM
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Ach... let us hope King Willem-Alexander makes a State Visit to the royal neighbours overseas. Then we can be sure that Catherine will be given an Order, as the Dutch seems not to care about reciprocity ("My Máxima no Order? Then your Camilla or Catherine no Order!"). They just seems to grant one as a token of personal appreciation and goodwill ;-)

See Diana's note with her only foreign royal Order: picture
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