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  #801  
Old 01-04-2017, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Obviously, as they can use something other than ivory, the Queen doesn't believe that Kate has done sufficient service to HM to earn it. What criteria HM has for that we don't know but we do know that length of marriage and having children isn't sufficient as The Duchess of York had a longer period of marriage and two children and didn't get it so neither length of marriage or having children or doing a few duties is what the Queen requires for it to be awarded.

Just because some members of the public think that she deserves it makes no difference to HM who is the only person who has to make the decision.
I don't think it's due to service, because it's obvious Catherine has served The Queen personally for nearly six years. It could be that there's no spare order to give, the use of ivory or The Queen just haven't thought about it.

It's odd that she don't have it yet though. Questions should be asked by the media as to why Catherine don't have the family order after all this time.

The issue should be fixed instead of being ignored or dismissed.
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  #802  
Old 01-04-2017, 03:27 AM
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Perhaps the simple fact she isn't a full time Royal. Yes she has been married six years, but she is still part time and not doing a lot of duties. She is basically in the same position Fergie was and she never got it. When Kate and William move to London and she picks up more work for the queen, she will likely get it.

I actually like that it us not like the Swedish system and you simply get it for being a member. Otherwise there is no reason the queen's adult granddaughters don't have it. Beatrice and Eugenie both have patronages and appear at events, if longevity in the family is a deciding factor, certainly they are longer than Kate.
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  #803  
Old 01-04-2017, 03:38 AM
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I think it will just seem strange if the Queen does pass and all of a sudden they all pop up with them on.
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  #804  
Old 01-04-2017, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I don't think it's due to service, because it's obvious Catherine has served The Queen personally for nearly six years. It could be that there's no spare order to give, the use of ivory or The Queen just haven't thought about it.

It's odd that she don't have it yet though. Questions should be asked by the media as to why Catherine don't have the family order after all this time.

The issue should be fixed instead of being ignored or dismissed.
Obviously it is not an "issue" at all as far as HM is concerned, it is rather, in her gift. End of story.

But, do you honestly think journalists questioning HM's integrity, implying she is acting unfairly and demanding an explanation would get any answer at all from BP?
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  #805  
Old 01-04-2017, 04:21 AM
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Exactly - it is the Queen's personal gift and she hasn't seen fit to give that particular gift.

To argue otherwise is to show disrespect for HM.
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  #806  
Old 01-04-2017, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Exactly - it is the Queen's personal gift and she hasn't seen fit to give that particular gift.

To argue otherwise is to show disrespect for HM.
I completely agree with you, it is in the gift of HM, and it is for her to decide. Not sure if we can really try and develop an analytical model that determines when it is awarded.
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  #807  
Old 01-04-2017, 04:29 AM
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As has already been stated, Prince Philip doesn't have a GCVO for 'services to the monarchy'. Now does anyone really suggest the Queen thinks he doesn't deserve it but Prince Edward or Sophie do?

That's the problem with the British system. Because there is no consistency, because there is no explanation, it allows people to pick an individual royal and say well "The Queen must think they don't deserve it"

Queen Victoria's cousin, Prince George, Duke of Cambridge had 10 knighthoods plus was a privy counsellor.

He had everything from the Garter to the Order of St John and everything in between.

He must one of the most 'deserving' British royals in recent memory.
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  #808  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:00 AM
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Note also that the two adult born Princesses of the blood royal, Beatrice and Eugenie, have no RFO either. Maybe the argument can be used: these are no "fulltime royals" but that is nonsense. One is royal or one is not royal. The two Alices (Gloucester and Athlone) as well Marina of Kent have received the RFO from Queen Elizabeth II and they were not "fulltime" in action for the royal family either.
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  #809  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:24 AM
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When it comes to Beatrice and Eugenie and the RFO, I think its very possible that both of the girls do have one but there really hasn't been an occasion which we would have seen them wearing one. At least not that I recall. Have either of them ever attended a state banquet or an occasion where tiaras and orders are worn?
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  #810  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:31 AM
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If you are going to argue that Bea and Eugenie have a RFO but have not been to a place where they would wear it, then it can also be argued that Kate has a RFO and chooses not to wear it because of William's ivory stance.
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  #811  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:49 AM
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Beatrice and Eugenie don't have the family order because their not official working royals. They don't attend State events where the order would be worn either.

If ivory is the issue, then it's easy to have a new one made without it. No one would know the difference. The big issue is why leave her bare of the family order when she's attending events where it's required to be worn? It's disappointing to see her attending these events and not have it on. All her royal peers have theirs.
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  #812  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Beatrice and Eugenie don't have the family order because their not official working royals. They don't attend State events where the order would be worn either.
Are we absolutely positively sure that the girls don't have one? As you, yourself, have stated, "The family order isn't a knighthood, but a family Memento. Just pointing out the difference."

I do agree that it is very possible that one of the Queen's requisites for the recipient that marries into the family show willingness to be an actual part of the working "Firm" and have a stable marriage but with being a "memento" and a family type of thing, its very possible also that HM wanted her granddaughters to have one. We'll probably never know unless Bea and Eugenie do attend a formal event in the future.
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  #813  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Are we absolutely positively sure that the girls don't have one? As you, yourself, have stated, "The family order isn't a knighthood, but a family Memento. Just pointing out the difference."

I do agree that it is very possible that one of the Queen's requisites for the recipient that marries into the family show willingness to be an actual part of the working "Firm" and have a stable marriage but with being a "memento" and a family type of thing, its very possible also that HM wanted her granddaughters to have one. We'll probably never know unless Bea and Eugenie do attend a formal event in the future.
I don't know. It would be a waste for them to have it, but never able to attend events where it's required to be worn. Also, how fair would it be for them to have it and wear it, but Catherine (who's an actual working senior royal) can't wear hers.

It's just crazy to leave Catherine bare of the family order after all this time and given the events she attends. What's also crazy is that some don't really think it's important.

What would people say if Sophie and Camilla didn't have it? Or even the other European royals like; Mary or Marie. I think some questions would be asked and eyebrows raised.
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  #814  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
What would people say if Sophie and Camilla didn't have it? Or even the other European royals like; Mary or Marie. I think some questions would be asked and eyebrows raised.
I would imagine that those in "polite society" would say absolutely nothing. Those that would say something, don't matter.
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  #815  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:38 AM
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If no one would know the difference between an ivory and a non ivory RFO, the palace would still have to issue a statement that Catherine's was porcelain or it defeats the purpose of a non ivory RFO. Then the second question the press will ask is how much did it cost? The cost today has to be way more than what it cost in 1952 when the ivory one were made. Then if ivory is such a big deal that thousands were spent to make Kate a non ivory one why are the other royal women still wearing a ivory ones. It still makes Kate look like some sort of diva.
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  #816  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Camilla didn't have it? Or even the other European royals like; Mary or Marie. I think some questions would be asked and eyebrows raised.
every one of those has at least a from 4 to 6 or even 8 events every year to wear the order kate in her 6 years marriage had only 4 events .
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  #817  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
If no one would know the difference between an ivory and a non ivory RFO, the palace would still have to issue a statement that Catherine's was porcelain or it defeats the purpose of a non ivory RFO. Then the second question the press will ask is how much did it cost? The cost today has to be way more than what it cost in 1952 when the ivory one were made. Then if ivory is such a big deal that thousands were spent to make Kate a non ivory one why are the other royal women still wearing a ivory ones. It still makes Kate look like some sort of diva.
I'm not sure cost would be a worry. Especially since the only part of the order that would be replaced would be the base of the portrait. The rest of the setting would be exactly the same. No one would really make noise about it, other than reporting that she now have the order.

Also, the palace shouldn't worry about any asked questions for Catherine receiving the order, when it's her place to have it. She's the senior royal and who's attending these State events. The problem is that she shouldn't be without the order after all this time in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
every one of those has at least a from 4 to 6 or even 8 events every year to wear the order kate in her 6 years marriage had only 4 events .
It doesn't matter. Catherine has been attending these events as a senior member of the royal family. She should have the order already.
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  #818  
Old 01-04-2017, 11:11 AM
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you do now that she attend only one event every year and just started 3 years ago the only year she attended 2 event a year was because off prince william connection with the chinese state visit .
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  #819  
Old 01-04-2017, 11:30 AM
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Now I have a question. Is it actually a requirement for those attending such events to wear the RFO or whatever other orders that they've received or is it an opportunity?

Just wondering.
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  #820  
Old 01-04-2017, 11:36 AM
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Now I have a question. Is it actually a requirement for those attending such events to wear the RFO or whatever other orders that they've received or is it an opportunity?

Just wondering.
I think it's a requirement, but one can opt out of wearing it on occasion. The thing is Catherine would likely wear hers if she had it or William and The Queen would think a new one should be made for her, especially when she's attending the events where it's worn. No since of having it and not wear it.
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