The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022

[Dman]

Other royal families give the orders out as pieces of candy.

The BRF have a different approach.

Why the Queen hasn't seen fit to give the order to Kate is something that only The Queen knows?

I doubt it has anything to do with ivory as it would be quite simple to make it from something else if that was what they wanted to do.

There has to be another reason - which is probably that The Queen doesn't feel Kate has earnt it.

People can say that Catherine hasn't earned her family order, but I would like to know what people think Catherine has been doing since 2011? painting the royal estates?

I don't think other royal families hand their orders out like candy. I think they fully acknowledge the royals position and work with the orders. Leave it to the British royals to leave one senior royal naked of any order when that royal is working on behalf of the royal family and Commonwealth and attending events where the orders are worn. None of it makes sense and people should have a problem with it after all this time and effort.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Other royal families give the orders out as pieces of candy. [...]

The comparable medals in other royal families were more a memento than an official decoration. This sort of medals used to be a practice at almost all Courts but Sweden is one of the last still maintaining this tradition.

The practice in Sweden is not really comparable with the United Kingdom, as any lady who is part of the Swedish King's family simply receives such a memento at the very moment they enter his family.

An example of a memento: this was worn by Mary Stuart, Princess Royal (1631-1660). It shows her spouse Willem II of Orange-Nassau, wearing the Order of the Garter: picture. Made in 1647 by Jean Petitot.

 

[Iluvbertie]

People can say that Catherine hasn't earned her family order, but I would like to know what people think Catherine has been doing since 2011? painting the royal estates?

I don't think other royal families hand their orders out like candy. I think they fully acknowledge the royals position and work with the orders. Leave it to the British royals to leave one senior royal naked of any order when that royal is working on behalf of the royal family and Commonwealth and attending events where the orders are worn. None of it makes sense and people should have a problem with it after all this time and effort.

I have no problem with her not having an order at all.

I trust that Her Majesty knows what she is doing and why she is or isn't giving out orders to people.

HM knows way more than we do about what is actually happening and obviously she doesn't thing Kate has done enough based on what she is seeing and knowing about what Kate is actually doing.

The Queen knows Kate - we don't and I would prefer to defer to HM's knowledge of what she demands from a woman in the BRF to earn the Royal Family Order than people on forums or in the press.

So Kate looks unadorned on those rare occasions she attends State occasions (3 - 4 times so far in her married life - the Diplomatic Receptions where photos are rare and one State dinner which she and William attended largely because Charles and Camilla were out of the country and so had to stand in for the heir apparent).

 

[muriel]

I have no problem with her not having an order at all.

I trust that Her Majesty knows what she is doing and why she is or isn't giving out orders to people.

HM knows way more than we do about what is actually happening and obviously she doesn't thing Kate has done enough based on what she is seeing and knowing about what Kate is actually doing.

The Queen knows Kate - we don't and I would prefer to defer to HM's knowledge of what she demands from a woman in the BRF to earn the Royal Family Order than people on forums or in the press.

So Kate looks unadorned on those rare occasions she attends State occasions (3 - 4 times so far in her married life - the Diplomatic Receptions where photos are rare and one State dinner which she and William attended largely because Charles and Camilla were out of the country and so had to stand in for the heir apparent).

I completely agree with you, the Queen must have good reason for not giving Catherine the RFO. I just don't think it has anything to do with ivory. That said, I so think Catherine will receive it soon, once they have gone full time.

I also don't think it is a big deal that Catherine is appearing at white tie events without an order. Camilla had to wait 7 years for her RVO, and she is the next Queen of the land.

 

[Dman]

I think one have to question The Queen's judgement on giving Orders. The late Princess of Wales worked very hard on behalf of the Monarchy and Commonwealth for sixteen years and never received a knighthood from her. This would have never happened under George V and her father.

Also, one can't say Catherine haven't done enough since 2011. The woman is about to embark on her second solo visit to a foreign country next month. The problem is The Queen have a problem giving her family a pat on the back for working on her behalf. Allowing Catherine to attend State Visits and The Diplomatic Corps Reception even without the family order is pretty careless and very inconsiderate.

I love the Queen but I think she's a bit off on this issue.

 

[muriel]

I think one have to question The Queen's judgement on giving Orders. The late Princess of Wales worked very hard on behalf of the Monarchy and Commonwealth for sixteen years and never received a knighthood from her. This would have never happened under George V and her father.

Also, one can't say Catherine haven't done enough since 2011. The woman is about to embark on her second solo visit to a foreign country next month. The problem is The Queen have a problem giving her family a pat on the back for working on her behalf. Allowing Catherine to attend State Visits and The Diplomatic Corps Reception even without the family order is pretty careless and very inconsiderate.

I love the Queen but I think she's a bit off on this issue.

I do not believe that all the facts are in the public domain. I am quite content to leave it to the judgement of my monarch to decide who she awards with a "pat on the back" or not.

 

[Nice Nofret]

Dman - it is up to the Queen and oly to the Queen - you seem to take it personaly, that your beloved Diana didn't recieve the Order. The Queen soon saw that Diana was troubled - to put it kindly - and saw that she wasn't fitting in her position. No other Princesse of Wales befor her was ever so badly suited and unwilling for her Position - The only other royal who comes to my mind is Elisabeth in Bayern, Imperatrice of Austria.

 

[Dman]

Dman - it is up to the Queen and oly to the Queen - you seem to take it personaly, that your beloved Diana didn't recieve the Order. The Queen soon saw that Diana was troubled - to put it kindly - and saw that she wasn't fitting in her position. No other Princesse of Wales befor her was ever so badly suited and unwilling for her Position - The only other royal who comes to my mind is Elisabeth in Bayern, Imperatrice of Austria.

It's not about loving Diana. She had many fans. It's about the work the Princess of Wales was doing during those sixteen years on The Queen's behalf, the U.K. and Commonwealth. She should've received a knighthood for her role.

Doesn't matter about ones private life. The work and efforts of the senior royal should be acknowledged officially with an order.

The only thing that could be keeping Catherine from receiving the family order must be the use of ivory, because Catherine has done plenty of duties and official tours to receive the family order. No one can say she hasn't done anything since 2011. She's a great support to William and the royal family. When The Queen asks her to represent her on the world stage, Catherine do her job.

It is nice of The Queen to approve Catherine's nomination to get the Tuvalu Order of Merit though. Now, I'm looking to that as a sign that Her Majesty will acknowledge Catherine with a British honor soon. Just hoping she'll get an official pat on the back from her.

 

[Osipi]

Its all possible too that the Queen and Kate have already discussed this amongst themselves and have come to an agreement. There is no way that they're required to make their decisions public. From what I see, Kate has meshed very well into the British Royal Family, has provided the heir and the spare for the continuity of the monarchy and works well for the "Firm" on her own and as a team with her husband.

Everything Kate has done or has not done has been with the approval and the assent of the Queen herself. If the Queen had wanted her to be doing more before now, she would have.

We probably will never know the whys and the wherefores about who gets what and why as that's not our place to know what is behind a monarch's gifts.

As far as Diana, all throughout the years she was The Princess of Wales, there were turbulent times and discord among family members. The "job" she did as The Princess of Wales is what was expected and required of her and you don't receive accolades for doing what you're expected to do. Diana was too far removed from being part of the "team" that is the "Firm" to be given special acknowledgement in a knighthood. She was more interested in the public accolades and how the media presented her than she was in supporting the monarch she represented. Camilla, on the other hand, took on her role as Charles' wife in support of him and his family and wasn't looking for adulation or accolades. She worked with the Firm and supported the Firm and is a true consort to Charles and makes him happy. These perhaps are the reason that HM presented her with the GCVO and last June became a member of the Queen's Privy Counsel.

Of course this is all my own opinion.

 

[kyle]

I have written this before and I know my opinion is not popular. Kate will never have a RFO from the queen. No one from her generation will.

 

[Dman]

Its all possible too that the Queen and Kate have already discussed this amongst themselves and have come to an agreement. There is no way that they're required to make their decisions public. From what I see, Kate has meshed very well into the British Royal Family, has provided the heir and the spare for the continuity of the monarchy and works well for the "Firm" on her own and as a team with her husband.

Everything Kate has done or has not done has been with the approval and the assent of the Queen herself. If the Queen had wanted her to be doing more before now, she would have.

We probably will never know the whys and the wherefores about who gets what and why as that's not our place to know what is behind a monarch's gifts.

As far as Diana, all throughout the years she was The Princess of Wales, there were turbulent times and discord among family members. The "job" she did as The Princess of Wales is what was expected and required of her and you don't receive accolades for doing what you're expected to do. Diana was too far removed from being part of the "team" that is the "Firm" to be given special acknowledgement in a knighthood. She was more interested in the public accolades and how the media presented her than she was in supporting the monarch she represented. Camilla, on the other hand, took on her role as Charles' wife in support of him and his family and wasn't looking for adulation or accolades. She worked with the Firm and supported the Firm and is a true consort to Charles and makes him happy. These perhaps are the reason that HM presented her with the GCVO and last June became a member of the Queen's Privy Counsel.

Of course this is all my own opinion.

Senior members of the royal family receive knighthoods for doing just what Diana did. Sophie, Anne, Camilla, Duchesses of Gloucester, Kent and others as well.

Now, we can't rely on the DM, but it was said that Catherine could receive a knighthood by The Queen this year. If not so, she should at least receive the family order by the Spanish State Visit. It's just time folks.

I have written this before and I know my opinion is not popular. Kate will never have a RFO from the queen. No one from her generation will.

Catherine will get the family order, because her service began under Elizabeth II reign. The next one she will get is Charles's family order.

 

[kyle]

Catherine will get the family order, because her service began under Elizabeth II reign. The next one she will get is Charles's family order.

If the Queen dies tonight, Catherine will not get a family order from the Queen. Catherine's first family order will be from Charles. I stand by my opinion.

 

[Mermaid1962]

The only princesses I can see who have the Garter are The Princess Royal, Princess Alexandra, and the Queen, who received it as Princess Elizabeth. Princess Alexandra didn't get hers until 2003, when she was 67 and had been doing royal duties since she was a teen.

As for the RVO, I expect that we'll see one after Prince Charles becomes King. As it is, Catherine is the Queen's grandson's wife, not her daughter-in-law. I think a lot of Catherine, but she isn't supporting the Queen in royal duties on a full-time basis yet.

Give it time. She'll wear one eventually.

I think one have to question The Queen's judgement on giving Orders. The late Princess of Wales worked very hard on behalf of the Monarchy and Commonwealth for sixteen years and never received a knighthood from her. This would have never happened under George V and her father.

Also, one can't say Catherine haven't done enough since 2011. The woman is about to embark on her second solo visit to a foreign country next month. The problem is The Queen have a problem giving her family a pat on the back for working on her behalf. Allowing Catherine to attend State Visits and The Diplomatic Corps Reception even without the family order is pretty careless and very inconsiderate.

I love the Queen but I think she's a bit off on this issue.

 

[Dman]

If the Queen dies tonight, Catherine will not get a family order from the Queen. Catherine's first family order will be from Charles. I stand by my opinion.

Her service began under The Queen. Just like Camilla, Diana, Sophie, Katherine, Brigitte, etc. She will be given the order by her. Charles will present Catherine with his when he comes to the throne. That's how it works.

The only princesses I can see who have the Garter are The Princess Royal, Princess Alexandra, and the Queen, who received it as Princess Elizabeth. Princess Alexandra didn't get hers until 2003, when she was 67 and had been doing royal duties since she was a teen.

As for the RVO, I expect that we'll see one after Prince Charles becomes King. As it is, Catherine is the Queen's grandson's wife, not her daughter-in-law. I think a lot of Catherine, but she isn't supporting the Queen in royal duties on a full-time basis yet.

Give it time. She'll wear one eventually.

They're transitioning to full time duties this year. Why dismiss all the work she's done on behalf of The Queen, UK and Commonwealth since 2011 though? Shouldn't she at least have the Royal Family Order of Queen Elizabeth II? Why leave her orderless when she's attending events where the order is required? She's third lady of the land.

I think the Garter will come when Charles comes to the throne. I think she and Camilla will be receiving it.

 

[wartenberg7]

I have no problem with her not having an order at all.

I bet you do....

 

[Iluvbertie]

I bet you do....

Please explain as I have no idea what you are saying or implying.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Her service began under The Queen. Just like Camilla, Diana, Sophie, Katherine, Brigitte, etc. She will be given the order by her. Charles will present Catherine with his when he comes to the throne. That's how it works.

You don't know if the Queen is going to ever give it to her at all.

You have made you views plain but you are trying to make hard and fast rules for HM's honours which don't exist.

Maybe the Queen has decided to not give her order to any grandchildren or grandchildren in law or maybe she will give it to all of them. As it appears she hasn't given it to her own granddaughters yet she may have decided to wait until Beatrice and Eugenie are able to attend an appropriate event before giving it to anyone in that generation.

I have no idea what is going on in the Queen's thinking. Why do you?

They're transitioning to full time duties this year. Why dismiss all the work she's done on behalf of The Queen, UK and Commonwealth since 2011 though? Shouldn't she at least have the Royal Family Order of Queen Elizabeth II? Why leave her orderless when she's attending events where the order is required? She's third lady of the land.

Once bitten - twice shy comes to mind. She gave the order to Diana early in her marriage but within a few years, if not months, it was clear that the marriage was in trouble.

She hasn't done that much.

If you want to know why she is 'orderless' then write to the Queen and ask her.

There is no event where orders are 'required'. If a person has an order they wear them. If they were 'required' then she would either have an order or would not have attended those events as she doesn't have an order.

I think the Garter will come when Charles comes to the throne. I think she and Camilla will be receiving it.

Tradition says she will wait until William is King for the Garter.

Edward VII gave it to Alexandra, George V to Mary, George VI to Elizabeth (and prior to Edward VII the Queens Consort didn't get the Garter) but they were awarded early in the reign of each new King and not in the reign of the previous kings.

Charles will give the Garter to Camilla and probably Harry and even possibly George, while William will get to give it to Katherine and maybe Charlotte.

 

[Dman]

Yes, Catherine has done a lot since becoming a senior royal in 2011. Also, with The Queen and Duke of Edinburgh handing down some of their patronages, she's about to do even more.

Yes, Charles and Diana hash problems, but that don't mean she should've dismissed Diana's official role and duties within the family. The previous Princess of Waleses did far less than she did and they got their family orders and some.

I'm not sure Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie would have the family orders. Catherine is a senior official working member of the family and one would think she should have the order by this time. Now, perhaps once they make the official transition this year, orders would be given.

I can't complain too much though. The Tuvalu Order of Merit is impressive, especially since it's a new foreign order. I don't think we'll get a chance to see her wear it unless she's attending an event that's Tuvalu related. If I'm correct on that.

 

[Skippyboo]

The Garter isn't a valid comparison tool. No one who married into the family other than Philip who is the consort has the Garter. There are plenty of lower orders given to people who married into the family even Tony Armstrong Jones got a GCVO in 1969.

 

[Osipi]

Do we really know that Kate doesn't have the RFO? She could have received it years ago but there were no occasions for her to wear it to until after the Royal Foundation started its huge campaign against poaching and illegal trade and its stance against the ivory trade.

When the occasion did arise for her to wear her RFO, that conundrum with the ivory set in and as she already has the RFO tucked away in her jewel box, instead of wearing it, she stood with her husband on the issue of ivory and the Queen understood and made the gesture of lending the wedding bracelet.

This is as plausible as any other guesswork on how the Queen feels about giving her RFO and orders. That's all we're doing here. Guess work.

 

[Dman]

Do we really know that Kate doesn't have the RFO? She could have received it years ago but there were no occasions for her to wear it to until after the Royal Foundation started its huge campaign against poaching and illegal trade and its stance against the ivory trade.

When the occasion did arise for her to wear her RFO, that conundrum with the ivory set in and as she already has the RFO tucked away in her jewel box, instead of wearing it, she stood with her husband on the issue of ivory and the Queen understood and made the gesture of lending the wedding bracelet.

This is as plausible as any other guesswork on how the Queen feels about giving her RFO and orders. That's all we're doing here. Guess work.

It's a possibility she already have it. Then again, why not have it made without ivory so she can proudly wear her family order? I would change the setting for her. I'm sure the royal jeweler can do this. It just don't make any sense to leave her without the family order though. The Queen, Anne, Camilla, Sophie, Birgitte, and Alexandra get to wear theirs, the same should go for Catherine. It's all so obvious during State Banquets and Diplomatic Corps Receptions.

 

[Osipi]

It's a possibility she already have it. Then again, why not have it made without ivory so she can proudly wear her family order? I would change the setting for her. I'm sure the royal jeweler can do this. It just don't make any sense to leave her without the family order though. The Queen, Anne, Camilla, Sophie, Birgitte, and Alexandra get to wear theirs, the same should go for Catherine. It's all so obvious during State Banquets and Diplomatic Corps Receptions.

Maybe, just maybe, its not that big of a deal for those among the family. If I was Kate, I'd feel more honored and accepted wearing something of the Queen's that no one else has ever worn before. But.... that's just me.

 

[Skippyboo]

The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations

If they remake it without the ivory, then it has to been announced that it's not ivory otherwise it defeats the purpose. Then the press will ask why all the women are still wearing the ivory ones. It is also an item that probably not cheap to make. The portrait would have to be redone on the new base and then switched out with may or may not be an easy thing to do. If it cost a thousand pounds or so, they press would make a big deal out of it.

 

[HRHHermione]

If they remake it without the ivory, then it has to been announced that it's not ivory otherwise it defeats the purpose. Then the press will ask why all the women are still wearing the ivory ones. It is also an item that probably not cheap to make. The portrait would have to be redone on the new base and then switched out with may or may not be an easy thing to do. If it cost a thousand pounds or so, they press would make a big deal out of it.

I agree. This has always been what I think of as the issue around this. If they just wait, Charles' order can be made of new materials for everyone.

 

[Dman]

If they remake it without the ivory, then it has to been announced that it's not ivory otherwise it defeats the purpose. Then the press will ask why all the women are still wearing the ivory ones.

They can simply state that Catherine's order was made differently because of William's issue on ivory. They can also say that all orders will be changed in the next reign. The idea is for Catherine to not go without the family order.

 

[Skippyboo]

They could also redo the Queen's RFO when they do Charles's. There are only 5 ladies now that would wear the Queen's with Charles's (Anne, Sophie, Camilla, Duchess of Gloucester and Alexandra). Kate would be the sixth. No one would have the order for George V and only Alexandra has George VI.

 

[JessRulz]

I've lost count on how many times we've had the exact same discussion on this topic...

 

[hernameispekka]

I've lost count on how many times we've had the exact same discussion on this topic...

Indeed. We have no idea what is actually the truth and there are multiple valid explanations. But it's not worth harping on, because none of us know the facts!

 

[Dman]

I've lost count on how many times we've had the exact same discussion on this topic...

I know and I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record on this subject. It's just one of those pesky royal mysteries that bothers me. There's always a mystery when it comes down to the Windsors, lol.

 

[Osipi]

It the "what ifs" that give us the place to throw around ideas and form good discussions and agree and disagree with each other. When we finally do find some of the answers, its gives us a good reason to should "Eureka!!" and then find something else to muse about.