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  #561  
Old 03-16-2016, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Kate could have been given the RFO but chooses not to wear it because of the ivory with the Queen's blessing.


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I think she already have it. I think ivory is the problem, but hopefully a new version will be made for her. She should be seen with her order under the reign of Elizabeth II.

She most likely already have the Diamond Jubliee Medal, but I'm not sure when she would wear the medal.
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  #562  
Old 03-16-2016, 11:35 AM
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It's not out of the realm of possibility. William is a global leader in the fight against the ivory trade, imagine the front page of the DM if Kate is seen wearing an ivory brooch.

I think for the time being we won't see Kate wearing a RFO
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  #563  
Old 03-16-2016, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Oh please, with all due respect it's a ridiculous excuse.
The RFO can be made especially for her without ivory.
She didn't receive it because shs's not a full time working member of the BRF. Period.
It doesn't matter if she's not a full-time royal. She has served The Queen and Commonwealth and have given the monarchy two heirs. She's either already have or will soon receive her order. It's not an order that take years and years of service to get.

The order being made with ivory is a serious problem, because it's her husband and father-in-law that's fighting against ivory trade. He just said that he's working getting ivory out of the palace. What signal will it send to the media and public that Catherine wear an order that's made with ivory? That's not a headline she, William and palace officials will likely want.

There's nothing wrong with giving Catherine a new version of the order without the use of ivory. The order will change anyway in Charles's and William's reigns.

This not an excuse but a serious issue.
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  #564  
Old 03-16-2016, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I think she already have it. I think ivory is the problem, but hopefully a new version will be made for her. She should be seen with her order under the reign of Elizabeth II.

She most likely already have the Diamond Jubliee Medal, but I'm not sure when she would wear the medal.
Kate wore possum fur gloves in Courchevel without a care in the world about the bad press. She could have worn the highest mark of respect from the Queen, surrounded by all the other royal ladies wearing their very own order, without any problem.

Camilla get an order made of ivory , and she supports Charity Elephant Family.
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  #565  
Old 03-16-2016, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Kate wore ossum fur gloves in Courchevel without a care in the world about the bad press. She could have worn the highest mark of respect from the Queen, surrounded by all the other royal ladies wearing their very own order, without any problem.

Camilla get an order made of ivory , and she supports Charity Elephant Family.
Yeah, but the family aren't fighting against fur.

I just think the use of ivory in this order is the problem. If not, there's no reason why Catherine should not get and wear her order.
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  #566  
Old 03-16-2016, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Kate wore possum fur gloves in Courchevel without a care in the world about the bad press. She could have worn the highest mark of respect from the Queen, surrounded by all the other royal ladies wearing their very own order, without any problem.

Camilla get an order made of ivory , and she supports Charity Elephant Family.
Comparing possum with African elephants is a mighty stretch. I guess people who wear leather can’t care about endangered species, either.

The charity Camilla is involved with supports Asian Elephants, not African. But I agree it’s a bad look for Camilla. It’s a bad look for all the ladies of the BRF who wear one.
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  #567  
Old 03-16-2016, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Yeah, but the family aren't fighting against fur.

I just think the use of ivory in this order is the problem. If not, there's no reason why Catherine should not get and wear her order.
Another aspect of why she wouldn't have worn an ivory RFO to the Chinese state dinner is because of the ongoing efforts by William to get the Chinese on board with the United for Wildlife campaign. William had recently been to China as a representative of HM and started dialogue while there and also while President Xi Jinping was in the UK, a conservation documentary featuring William was being broadcast in China.

It would have really been a faux pas for HM and Kate to ignore the implications of this. If the RFO had always been made out of porcelain, I'm sure we would have seen Kate wearing it that night.
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  #568  
Old 03-16-2016, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
It would have really been a faux pas for HM and Kate to ignore the implications of this. If the RFO had always been made out of porcelain, I'm sure we would have seen Kate wearing it that night.
But the Queen wore her two (ivory) orders in front of the Chinese President. Anne, the Duchess of Gloucester and Princess Alexandra were there too, and wore their respective orders.
Would have been an extroardinary double standard to "protect" Kate from a bad PR move and let all the other royal ladies to be exposed to a potential diplomatic disaster.
Why is it so unthinkable to consider Kate without the RFO, at least for now ? We all know that Sarah didn't receive one (and she served the Crown and the Commonwealth) and Princess Michael is still waiting.
She will receive it i'm sure, in due time.
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  #569  
Old 03-16-2016, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
But the Queen wore her two (ivory) orders in front of the Chinese President. Anne, the Duchess of Gloucester and Princess Alexandra were there too, and wore their respective orders.
Would have been an extroardinary double standard to "protect" Kate from a bad PR move and let all the other royal ladies to be exposed to a potential diplomatic disaster.
Why is it so unthinkable to consider Kate without the RFO, at least for now ? We all know that Sarah didn't receive one (and she served the Crown and the Commonwealth) and Princess Michael is still waiting.
She will receive it i'm sure, in due time.
Yeah, but those royals aren't going after the ivory trade industry, Catherine's husband is and that would've been a bad move. This is the Cambridge's cause.
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  #570  
Old 03-16-2016, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Kate could have been given the RFO but chooses not to wear it because of the ivory with the Queen's blessing.


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There are few places in the whole United Kingdom so studded with ivory items as Buckingham Palace. From the keyboards of the piano to the chess pieces, from the inlay of wooden cabinets to the envelope-opener, from the holder of a fan to the handle of a 17th C silver teapot... Ivory everywhere. What will she do? Remove all what contains ivory out of all the royal residences? The animals will not come back to life again. When Catherine is already so fussy about the RFO... girl... when will you stop then, just look around in the palaces!
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  #571  
Old 03-16-2016, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Yeah, but those royals aren't going after the ivory trade industry, Catherine's husband is and that would've been a bad move. This is the Cambridge's cause.
So Wiliiam's grandmother, aunts and cousins made an apparent bad move that night by wearing their RFO. OK.
We might add that Kate didn't wear any order during the diplomatic reception last november. Any excuse about it ? A shortage of porcelain in uk perhaps ? C'mon.
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  #572  
Old 03-16-2016, 02:50 PM
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Common sense tells me that Catherine has not received the RFO yet - if she had have done, we would know. If and when she receives the Order, I have no doubt it will not contain ivory and will be made of porcelain or enamel or something.
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  #573  
Old 03-16-2016, 02:57 PM
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Common sense tells me that Catherine has not received the RFO yet - if she had have done, we would know. If and when she receives the Order, I have no doubt it will not contain ivory and will be made of porcelain or enamel or something.
I agree. It makes no sense to get the RFO and then not wear it.

Her husband is expected to wear an ermine mantle. Hundreds of little ermines were killed for it. What will William do?

Her husband has graduated from Sandhurst and is an officer, an Aide-de-Camp. Usually the handle of their ceremonual sword has an inlay of ivory. What will William do?

Etc. It is noble to stop ivory hunting but it makes no sense to ban all what is already in there. The dead animals will not come back to life, by banning.
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  #574  
Old 03-16-2016, 03:13 PM
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She may go on to wear the order with ivory included, but do anyone here think the media who (is pretty much upset with the Cambridge's already) will not take William to task on his wife wearing a brooch that includes ivory, when he's pretty much dead set on getting rid of ivory and protecting rhinos and elephants? The man just signed a Buckingham Palace Declaration on ivory. The British media would have a good time releasing attacks.
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  #575  
Old 03-16-2016, 03:18 PM
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She may go on to wear the order with ivory included, but do anyone here think the media who (is pretty much upset with the Cambridge's already) will not take William to task on his wife wearing a brooch that includes ivory, when he's pretty much dead set on getting rid of ivory and protecting rhinos and elephants? The man just signed a Buckingham Palace Declaration on ivory. The British media would have a good time releasing attacks.
Of course yes. But as William stated about some critics from the press about a supposed workshy attitude : it's part of the job.
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  #576  
Old 03-16-2016, 03:20 PM
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Of course yes. But as William stated about some critics from the press about a supposed workshy attitude : it's part of the job.
Yeah okay, I guess they will make some changes once Charles and William design their own royal orders.
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  #577  
Old 03-16-2016, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post

Her husband has graduated from Sandhurst and is an officer, an Aide-de-Camp. Usually the handle of their ceremonual sword has an inlay of ivory. What will William do?
Only the General Officer's Sword ever included ivory, now replaced by a synthetic.

Should Her Majesty deem it appropriate, she shall no doubt direct the various royal jewellers and manufacturers of insignia to convert from materials that are considered politically incorrect, or harmful to the environment, to various alternatives.


It is not for the Duke of Cambridge or any other member of the Royal Family to dictate terms under which honours or gifts from the sovereign may be given and I'm certain His Royal Highness would never presume to do so.

The Royal Family Order is presented when the Sovereign wishes, so too the Garter, Thistle, Order of Merit, Royal Victorian Chain and Royal Victorian Order (and Order of St Patrick if we are being particularly pedantic). They alone are the prerogative of the monarch, free from the interference of government, so shall we just wait for any kind of announcement to be made, before rumours and supposition become fact?
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  #578  
Old 03-16-2016, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Von Schlesian View Post
Only the General Officer's Sword ever included ivory, now replaced by a synthetic.

Should Her Majesty deem it appropriate, she shall no doubt direct the various royal jewellers and manufacturers of insignia to convert from materials that are considered politically incorrect, or harmful to the environment, to various alternatives.


It is not for the Duke of Cambridge or any other member of the Royal Family to dictate terms under which honours or gifts from the sovereign may be given and I'm certain His Royal Highness would never presume to do so.

The Royal Family Order is presented when the Sovereign wishes, so too the Garter, Thistle, Order of Merit, Royal Victorian Chain and Royal Victorian Order (and Order of St Patrick if we are being particularly pedantic). They alone are the prerogative of the monarch, free from the interference of government, so shall we just wait for any kind of announcement to be made, before rumours and supposition become fact?
The Royal Family Order isn't a knighthood. It's just a personal family honor and momento that the King or Queen give to female family members. No announcement is made on when it's given. We will only know Catherine has received the order when she is seen wearing it.
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  #579  
Old 03-16-2016, 06:22 PM
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Of course yes. But as William stated about some critics from the press about a supposed workshy attitude : it's part of the job.
Exactly!

I am also a bit concerned about the submission that William should not allow Kate to wear the Order, if she has it, because it is made from ivory and he has spoken out against the use of existing ivory artifacts. Do people in the UK really still believe that a man has the right to dictate what his wife does or does not wear? If Kate has it and won't wear it because SHE believes it is wrong to use existing ivory artifacts, she should have the courage of her convictions and speak up and say so, but not refrain from wearing it merely because her husband doesn't want her to.
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  #580  
Old 03-16-2016, 07:29 PM
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The Royal Family Order isn't a knighthood. It's just a personal family honor and momento that the King or Queen give to female family members. No announcement is made on when it's given. We will only know Catherine has received the order when she is seen wearing it.
I didn't realise I had been ambiguous about that point - I was't for a moment suggesting that the Royal Family Order is an order of knighthood. It is however in the Sovereign's personal gift and that is the point I made.

My reference to announcement is referring to the material selected to produce the insignia.
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