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  #501  
Old 10-24-2015, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The Queen is like this with all orders, not just the RFO. Look around the family and there is clearly no set time or criteria for any order.

I know people who won't rest until Harry has the Garter and if he were Queen Victoria's grandson he would have it but as it is he was made KCVO this year.

Prince Andrew was made CVO at 21 but was 43 before he got KCVO

Princess Anne and Prince William have the Thistle but Andrew and Edward do not.

Sophie Wessex was made GCVO before her husband Edward.

We'll drive ourselves mad trying to figure it all out.
Yes, these things can all seem a bit haphazard and I agree that we'll end up driving ourselves mad trying to figure it out. Personally, I'm not that fussed about who has what order because I don't know HM's reasoning behind bestowing them, or the timing at which she decides to do so. It's interesting to me to see that so many people think they know, and used their imagined criteria for why someone should or shouldn't have a particular order.

When it comes to the RFO, though, it seems a perfectly reasonable suggestion to me that it would be given essentially automatically when someone joins the family. It's not only that other royal families do it that way, but that the British royal family used to do it as well. And it makes sense to me to receive a "family" order upon joining the family. But it's HM's decision to make, of course. Maybe she just likes messing with our heads.
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  #502  
Old 10-24-2015, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
Yes, these things can all seem a bit haphazard and I agree that we'll end up driving ourselves mad trying to figure it out. Personally, I'm not that fussed about who has what order because I don't know HM's reasoning behind bestowing them, or the timing at which she decides to do so. It's interesting to me to see that so many people think they know, and used their imagined criteria for why someone should or shouldn't have a particular order.

When it comes to the RFO, though, it seems a perfectly reasonable suggestion to me that it would be given essentially automatically when someone joins the family. It's not only that other royal families do it that way, but that the British royal family used to do it as well. And it makes sense to me to receive a "family" order upon joining the family. But it's HM's decision to make, of course. Maybe she just likes messing with our heads.
I didn't even know that men used to receive the RFO as well. I was just used to seeing women wearing the orders.
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  #503  
Old 10-24-2015, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I am stunned at all the chivvying for Catherine to get a RFO. This is totally within the Queen's gift. Hers to set the criteria, hers to decide by whatever that that criteria is met by whatever measure she has set.

The constant moaning that other royal houses do it in a way more acceptable to them is insulting. This is the House of Windsor and they do things their way, as they should. That the heart of the complaint is that Catherine doesn't have one is doubly insulting. HM is not required to do things differently simply because Catherine doesn't happen to have received one, or perhaps she hasn't earned it.

The point is, we do not know what the Queen's criteria is and I hope we never do.
Jumpy claps for this post, MARG. A hundred thousand of them.

ETA: The fact that the DoC appeared in public wearing such sentimental and gorgeous jewelry on loan from HM's private collection is much more impressive to me personally than a RFO would have been.
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  #504  
Old 10-24-2015, 11:16 PM
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Who cares, except few people on this site. Kate does a great job. Royal Orders are an archaic acknowledgement, of something past. They are giben at the whim of the giver. Doesn't change spit in real life.
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  #505  
Old 10-25-2015, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Jumpy claps for this post, MARG. A hundred thousand of them.

ETA: The fact that the DoC appeared in public wearing such sentimental and gorgeous jewelry on loan from HM's private collection is much more impressive to me personally than a RFO would have been.

Yep !I think to be loaned jewelry from your husbands grandmother that was designed by his grandfather and worn on their wedding is far better and says a more than anything. But maybe that's why some are questioning the RFO. .. Me I'd go for the jewels every time diamonds go with everything
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  #506  
Old 10-25-2015, 12:43 AM
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The bracelets were very precious and personal loans indeed, but the Royal Family Order is something very special for the senior royal ladies of the House of Windsor. It's one of those family mementos that they are proud to wear whenever they can.
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  #507  
Old 10-25-2015, 01:47 AM
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I don't think Kate would be worried about it. I think she's very happy with her life.


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  #508  
Old 10-25-2015, 02:10 AM
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I suspect she'll have it by the end of this year or into the new year. The Cambridge's might attend the Diplomatic Corps Reception in December and there will be another State Visit in the spring.
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  #509  
Old 10-25-2015, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Other than lending her own engagement ring to Kate, most likely the next most sentimental gift she owns is the bracelet from Philip on her wedding day. That, to me, is a *huge* gesture. It says that HM respects Kate's stance with William against ivory but she wants to show you how much Kate does mean to the family.

At least that's how I see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I am stunned at all the chivvying for Catherine to get a RFO. This is totally within the Queen's gift. Hers to set the criteria, hers to decide by whatever that that criteria is met by whatever measure she has set.

The constant moaning that other royal houses do it in a way more acceptable to them is insulting. This is the House of Windsor and they do things their way, as they should. That the heart of the complaint is that Catherine doesn't have one is doubly insulting. HM is not required to do things differently simply because Catherine doesn't happen to have received one, or perhaps she hasn't earned it.

The point is, we do not know what the Queen's criteria is and I hope we never do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
I think Elizabeth, better than anyone else believes that a member of the royal family must not just carry on the line, but must show a high level of duty and dedication to the Commonwealth to fulfill the royal role. I think of the speech she made in Christmas 1952 is the kind of standard to which she holds her family in awarding honours: http://www.royal.gov.uk/imagesandbro...dcast1952.aspx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Jumpy claps for this post, MARG. A hundred thousand of them.

ETA: The fact that the DoC appeared in public wearing such sentimental and gorgeous jewelry on loan from HM's private collection is much more impressive to me personally than a RFO would have been.
Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Yep !I think to be loaned jewelry from your husbands grandmother that was designed by his grandfather and worn on their wedding is far better and says a more than anything. But maybe that's why some are questioning the RFO. .. Me I'd go for the jewels every time diamonds go with everything
Great posts!

To those of you who nag about this RFO thing, and compares it with Orders and Decorations in other countries, You must remember that British monarchs in modern times have always done it this way. The Queen is almost 90 and has been on the throne since 1952, and she's not going to change things now.

The Queen belives, as AdmirerUS says ''that a member of the royal family must not just carry on the line, but must show a high level of duty and dedication to the Commonwealth to fulfill the royal role'', and at least be a full time royal before you get any Orders/Decorations.

Diana received the RFO the same year she married, but she was married to the heir.

Camilla (also married to the heir) received it 2007, in her 3rd year as a fulltime working royal.

This has nothing to do with the personal relationship between the Queen and Kate. Sarah didn't receive anything, but she has always had a close relationship with the Queen.

And the fact that the Queen loaned Kate these particular bracelets speak volumes.

And I can reassure all of you that she will the receive the RFO when she becomes a full time working royal, maybe before.
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  #510  
Old 10-25-2015, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I am stunned at all the chivvying for Catherine to get a RFO. This is totally within the Queen's gift. Hers to set the criteria, hers to decide by whatever that that criteria is met by whatever measure she has set.

The constant moaning that other royal houses do it in a way more acceptable to them is insulting. This is the House of Windsor and they do things their way, as they should. That the heart of the complaint is that Catherine doesn't have one is doubly insulting. HM is not required to do things differently simply because Catherine doesn't happen to have received one, or perhaps she hasn't earned it.

The point is, we do not know what the Queen's criteria is and I hope we never do.
Come on, only because it is Elizabeth II, you immediately jump in defence mode. You sound like going to the loo after the Queen has left her big message there and say: "It all smelled like perfume, Ma'am!"



Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
Great posts!

[.... ] You must remember that British monarchs in modern times have always done it this way. [....]
[...]
That is not true. When monarchy is about continuity and tradition, then Queen Elizabeth II is quite different from her father, her grandfather, her great-grandfather, etc. whom all handed out the RFO à la Norway and Sweden: to all Princesses of the Royal House, even when they were just kids.
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  #511  
Old 10-25-2015, 03:51 AM
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One thing that made me want for the Queen to give Kate (and even Charlotte) the RFO as soon as possible is also becaue we don't know if the Queen will be here tomorrow to give it out. It might sound harsh, but I think it would be "smarter" to give it out a little early so that they don't miss out on it.
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  #512  
Old 10-25-2015, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That is not true. When monarchy is about continuity and tradition, then Queen Elizabeth II is quite different from her father, her grandfather, her great-grandfather, etc. whom all handed out the RFO á la Norway and Sweden: to all Princesses of the Royal House, even when they were just kids.
Did all the ladies who married princes from 1901 to 1952 receive it at their wedding day/their first year in the royal family? I doubt it.
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  #513  
Old 10-25-2015, 04:56 AM
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Princess Marina actually wore the RFO of her father-in-law George V on her wedding day (image).
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  #514  
Old 10-25-2015, 05:07 AM
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That is a good question. Red means I am not sure (from pictures) they received one.

Edward VII's royal daughters (in law):
The Princess Louise, Princess Royal
The Princess Victoria
The Princess Maud (later Queen of Norway)

Princess Mary of Teck (spouse of the later King George V)

Edward VII's royal granddaughters (in law):
Princess Alexandra, 2nd Duchess of Fife
Princess Maud (later Countess of Southesk)
Princess Märtha of Sweden (later Queen of Norway)

George V's royal daughters (in law):
The Princess Mary, Princess Royal
Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
(spouse to the later King George VI)
Lady Alice Montagu-Douglas-Scott
(spouse of Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester)
Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark (spouse of Prince George, Duke of Kent)

George V's royal granddaughters (in law):
Princess Alexandra of Kent
Birgitte van Deurs
(spouse to Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester)
Hon. Katharine Worsley
(spouse to Prince Edward, Duke of Kent)
Marie-Christine Freiin von Reibnitz
(spouse to Prince Michael of Kent)

George VI's royal daughters:
The Princess Elizabeth
The Princess Margaret


Elizabeth II's royal daughters (in law):
The Princess Anne, Princess Royal
Lady Diana Spencer (spouse of Prince Charles, Prince of Wales)
Camilla Shand (spouse of Prince Charles, Prince of Wales)
Sarah Ferguson (spouse of Prince Andrew, Duke of York)
Sophie Rhys-Jones (spouse of Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex)

Elizabeth II's royal granddaughters (in law):
Princess Beatrice of York
Princess Eugenie of York
Catherine Middleton (spouse to Prince William, Duke of Cambridge)
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  #515  
Old 10-25-2015, 08:09 AM
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Beatrice and Eugenie are Grandaughters not 'in-laws'..
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  #516  
Old 10-25-2015, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Beatrice and Eugenie are Grandaughters not 'in-laws'..
It says Granddaughters (in law) which means either the one or the other.

Like "The Heir (Heiress) to the throne" or "The host (hostess) of the event".
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  #517  
Old 10-25-2015, 08:58 AM
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There are some missing George v daughter in laws - I believe the duchess of York ( future Queen Mum) and Alice Duchess of Gloucester) both had RFO's from George V. Princess Margaret also had one from her grandfather. All three plus Marina Duchess of Kent had RFOs from George VI and Elizabeth. Plus the Queen gave RFOs to current Duchesses of Kent and Gloucester.

Basically almost every one marrying into the royal family received a RFO except Princess Michael, Fergie and Kate.

Kate will get one most likely from her father in law, definitely from her husband and son if she outlives William. From the Queen, it remains to be seen.


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  #518  
Old 10-25-2015, 09:58 AM
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Guys, Catherine will gain 3 Royal Family Order's; Elizabeth II, Charles III, and William V.
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  #519  
Old 10-25-2015, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Guys, Catherine will gain 3 Royal Family Order's; Elizabeth II, Charles III, and William V.
She will also likely get GCVO and Order of the Garter - she wont be short on orders/honours in her lifetime. Even if she doesn't receive the Elizabeth II order, she will have two orders to pin on her dresses when she needs to wear them.

It's likely that Anne, Camilla and Sophie will all receive the Charles III order at some point too, so all the women get their share of badges and such; they aren't short on things to wear to state banquets.

I would like to think that the Queen has given her grand-daughters the family order, even if they will never actually be seen wearing them, except perhaps at her funeral if it's appropriate?

Does anyone know if Beatrice, Eugnie, Zara (and Louise) have the Diamond Jubilee medal? Did the male grandchildren receive the medal? I know we've seen William and Harry wearing it but do Peter and James also receive it?
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  #520  
Old 10-25-2015, 03:39 PM
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They all have the Jubilee Medal/s - along with millions of other people. It is no biggy as it was given to anyone serving in the military, police, prison service with five years service along with a number of other people. I have a cousin who has both the Golden and Diamond Jubilee Medals because he sang in the choir at the official services (his father had the 1937 and 1953 Coronation medals for the same reasons).
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