The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022

[muriel]

Do we know that she has been offered and refused it because of ivory or is that mere speculation?

I doubt that she would insult the Queen by refusing so the only other interpretation would be that the Queen hasn't offered it to her - yet - which would suggest that The Queen doesn't believe that she has done enough to earn it. It is after all up to The Queen to decide whom she wishes to so honour and it seems she doesn't believe Kate has earned it.

I agree, I just don't think she has been given the RFO yet

 

[Rudolph]

Do we know that she has been offered and refused it because of ivory or is that mere speculation?

I doubt that she would insult the Queen by refusing so the only other interpretation would be that the Queen hasn't offered it to her - yet - which would suggest that The Queen doesn't believe that she has done enough to earn it. It is after all up to The Queen to decide whom she wishes to so honour and it seems she doesn't believe Kate has earned it.

That there is no criteria to 'earning' any order, it's a plausible explanation. Given William's stance on ivory I'm sure the Queen understands.

I personally think it's about optics. The press would say what hypocrites the royals are. William talks about getting rid of ivory and his wife wears ivory of her chest.

 

[Nico]

Catherine wouldn't refuse an order. William's position on ivory is preventing her from getting it. I'm sure The Queen understands his position.

Catherine has done enough to get it. The royal ladies usually get it early on. It's not a knighthood, but a personal gift from the monarch to senior royal ladies. Catherine has been a senior working royal for nearly 6 years, she has worked hard to get it.

Ivory is preventing her from getting the current version. Why on Gods green earth they're not making a new one, without ivory, for Catherine?

Yep speculation.
And speculation from some members of this forum (not even from the press mind you) after some kind of weird brainstorming about why oh why this dear Kate didn't receive her very own RFO (we are still wondering about Sarah and Princess Michael btw, any suggestion ?).

 

[Dman]

Yes, the use of ivory is keeping Catherine from getting the order. A new one could be made. I know it might be expensive, but they can afford to have one made for Catherine.

Also, we have to stop saying Catherine hasn't done enough to receive her order. Catherine has conducted official engagements on behalf of The Queen across the U.K. and have carried out official tours within the Commonwealth. She has taken on patronages and attends official functions as a senior royal. Catherine just conducted her first big foreign visit to the Netherlands this year.

The idea that Catherine hasn't done enough to receive her RFO is old, stale and simply not true.

Yep speculation.
And speculation from some members of this forum (not even from the press mind you) after some kind of weird brainstorming about why oh why this dear Kate didn't receive her very own RFO (we are still wondering about Sarah and Princess Michael btw, any suggestion ?).

Princess Michael of Kent isn't a senior working royal and I'm guessing the situtions at the time prevented Sarah from getting it.

Catherine isn't in those kind of positions. She's done and currently doing her duties very well. She should be given a family order.

 

[Nico]

Yes, the use of ivory is keeping Catherine from getting the order. A new one could be made. I know it might be expensive, but they can afford to have one made for Catherine.

Also, we have to stop saying Catherine hasn't done enough to receive her order. Catherine has conducted official engagements on behalf of The Queen across the U.K. and have carried out official tours within the Commonwealth. She has taken on patronages and attends official functions as a senior royal. Catherine just conducted her first big foreign visit to the Netherlands this year.

The idea that Catherine hasn't done enough to receive her RFO is old, stale and simply not true.




Princess Michael of Kent isn't a senior working royal and I'm guessing the situtions at the time prevented Sarah from getting it.

Catherine isn't in those kind of positions. She's done and currently doing her duties very well. She should be given a family order.

Again, where did you get that information ? Apart from your very own deductions , and let's say wishful thinking, you're morfing a mere speculation (again from some discussions on this forum) into a fact. Sorry it's not a fact. It's a hypothesis.
And as you said, if the ivory was the big issue, they could easily make a special one sans ivory.
Anyway same discussion again and again ...

 

[Molly2101]

I see no problem with Catherine not receiving the RFO. She will receive the RFO of both Charles and William so she will never be short of them.

 

[Skippyboo]

In the near future, new Family Orders will be made for King Charles III. They are not going to be made of ivory. For all we know the Queen could have give Catherine the RFO and told her she understands why she can't wear it and it's sitting in a BP jewel vault waiting to be replaced with a porcelain one when they make the new orders for Charles.

 

[Dman]

Again, where did you get that information ? Apart from your very own deductions , and let's say wishful thinking, you're morfing a mere speculation (again from some discussions on this forum) into a fact. Sorry it's not a fact. It's a hypothesis.
And as you said, if the ivory was the big issue, they could easily make a special one sans ivory.
Anyway same discussion again and again ...

I'm making this conclusion based on the fact of William's hard position on the use of ivory, Nico. If it was up to him, every ivory object in the palaces would be gone. If Catherine would wear an order that's made with ivory, given William's conservation work, there would be lots of criticism laid on his doorstep. That's not speculation, but true.

After all this time and work, Catherine would already have the order. That's not speculation, but true.

In the near future, new Family Orders will be made for King Charles III. They are not going to be made of ivory. For all we know the Queen could have give Catherine the RFO and told her she understands why she can't wear it and it's sitting in a BP jewel vault waiting to be replaced with a porcelain one when they make the new orders for Charles.

A porcelain order should've already been made for Catherine. I think it's just silly to leave her without a family order. Every senior royal lady have one, except her. That's highly unfair, IMO. Here she's attending these events with The Queen and Camila proudly wearing theirs.

 

[Iluvbertie]

So it is mere speculation why she doesn't have one.

The assumption then is that the Queen doesn't believe she has done enough to have one. She knows Kate personally, we don't. She knows what is really going on - we don't.

We speculate on the state of the marriage, the relationships between royals etc but we don't know. The Queen does.

As people have said they could make an order for Kate from some other material if ivory is the issue so the fact that she isn't wearing the order clearly says that the Queen hasn't given it to her which will lead to other speculations of course.

 

[Nico]

I'm making this conclusion based on the fact of William's hard position on the use of ivory, Nico. If it was up to him, every ivory object in the palaces would be gone. If Catherine would wear an order that's made with ivory, given William's conservation work, there would be lots of criticism laid on his doorstep. That's not speculation, but true.

After all this time and work, Catherine would already have the order. That's not speculation, but true.

Ok but at the end of the day, ivory or not ivory , still no order tonight.

 

[Rudolph]

If we look at the orders of everyone from the Duke of Edinburgh on down can anyone with a straight face say one has 'earned' an order and another hasn't.

What has Sophie done to 'earn' the Order of St John but not Camilla?

IMO, by any criteria, Kate has done more than enough to be given the order. That William has stated he wants to get rid of all the ivory in BP, that is reason enoguh for me for Kate not to be wearing it.

 

[miss whirley]

Who knows if ivory is a issue for The Queen concerning Catherine. But it's certainly an issue for me. Every year I breathe a sigh of relief that she isn't wearing that vile thing. I would lose respect for her if she ever wore it.

I know Charles will have the good sense and decency to use another material for his orders, so hopefully his will be the first one she wears.

 

[Dman]

We know The Queen hasn't given her the order. She's not going to give it to Catherine and she not wear it to these events where it's required for her to wear it. I think she haven't given it to her because of the ivory issue. You'd think someone would have the brains to make her an order without ivory. It's a total shame the other royal ladies get to where theirs, but Catherine can't.

What's even more sad; we have this same conversation every year, and every year Catherine do the work to have earned an order. It's taking this long her to get it, it's going to take 200 years for Harry's future wife to receive her's. Can't put it past the British royals.

 

[Osipi]

I think the folks here in the thread are more concerned about Kate's RFO (ivory or non ivory) than the Queen and Kate actually are. They know what is going on and they're not telling.

ETA: Doing a quick scan through Kate's jewelry thread, I noticed a few comments that stated that Kate may be wearing the Queen's wedding bracelet. This has happened each time there's been a white tie affair and Kate appears without the RFO. Perhaps the loan of the wedding bracelet (which I don't believe anyone else has ever worn besides the Queen) is in lieu of the RFO because of the ivory issue? Just a thought.

 

[Dman]

I think the folks here in the thread are more concerned about Kate's RFO (ivory or non ivory) than the Queen and Kate actually are. They know what is going on and they're not telling.

ETA: Doing a quick scan through Kate's jewelry thread, I noticed a few comments that stated that Kate may be wearing the Queen's wedding bracelet. This has happened each time there's been a white tie affair and Kate appears without the RFO. Perhaps the loan of the wedding bracelet (which I don't believe anyone else has ever worn besides the Queen) is in lieu of the RFO because of the ivory issue? Just a thought.

I don't know. The whole ivory issue is solvable. It's just unfair to leave her without one after all this time and work she's carried out. It's sad that year after year she have to go without one, while her peers wear theirs.

 

[AdmirerUS]

If it makes any of you feel better, I posted over a year ago on the ivory issue and no one seemed to listen to what I wrote either. The truth is veiled in the mists that surround the Queen on these issues.

 

[Dman]

If it makes any of you feel better, I posted over a year ago on the ivory issue and no one seemed to listen to what I wrote either. The truth is veiled in the mists that surround the Queen on these issues.

All I know; Catherine is working hard and she should already have the order by this time.

 

[carlota]

indeed, it is surprising that kate didn't receive the RFO. i doubt it is a question of ivory/no ivory. as someone else pointed out, sarah never got it. camilla got it just after 2 years in the family. maybe HM wants to wait until kate grows more into her role and becomes a full-time royal? perhaps she judges her to be too young to receive it so soon? or maybe she deems that she should only award it to the next direct generation following her (ie. charles'), but not to the third generation (ie. william's)? as far as i am aware beatrice and eugenie did not receive it either - or maybe they have but never wore it.

the diplomatic reception would have been such a great occasion to see kate wearing her RFO for the first time, though... We know that diana received a hers quite early on, she wore it in 1983 - but then again, she was the consort to the next in line, unlike kate.

 

[Princess B]

Has the order been given to any of her grand children in laws???
Another probability is that she simply doesn't want to give it to her grand children in laws.

 

[carlota]

Has the order been given to any of her grand children in laws???
Another probability is that she simply doesn't want to give it to her grand children in laws.

well, the order is only given to high ranking members of the family who perform duties on HM's name, and the only married grandchildren the queen has aside from william are phillip and zara who don't even have royal status.

 

[Dman]

Has the order been given to any of her grand children in laws???
Another probability is that she simply doesn't want to give it to her grand children in laws.

Catherine is a senior member of the royal family. She's been working on behalf of The Queen for nearly six years now. She should already have it by this time. I'm still thinking the use of ivory in the order is the problem. A new one could be made for her without the use of ivory though. I don't know if it's too expensive to produce another or what, but it's not fair to leave her without the family order after all this time and work she has put in. If Catherine had just joined the family yesterday, no family order would be understandable. Nearly six years, two heirs and tons of official duties later, Catherine is deserving of the family order.

Now she's attending one the most important events on the royal calendar for the third time, and still don't have the family order.

 

[Skippyboo]

The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations

Maybe we see Catherine get a GCVO or other Damehood on this years New Years Honors as a 35 birthday present?

I'm in the ivory as the RFO issue camp. With William's position she can't wear an ivory one and since it's not announced as given, the only way to know is when it's worn. There is this same debate everytime she doesn't wear it when she could. She doesn't work enough the Queen must hate her, marriage in trouble like Fergie side vs ivory issue.

We see Kate wearing the Queen's wedding present bracelet from Philip that no one else has worn. If you think your granddaughter in law needs to get out and work more, do you loan her that bracelet. She is a full time royal? Neither are William and Harry and they have 3 Knighthoods between them. Philip got the Garter on the eve of his wedding. He would not have gotten anything if he was not marrying the future queen. Elizabeth and Margaret got George V's RFO as small girls. They weren't out there working for The Firm as little girls.

 

[Pranter]

The only thing that makes sense is the ivory issue. There doesn't seem to be any other logical reason for her not to have a RFO.


LaRae

 

[Skippyboo]

I almost wish the palace would come out with a statement that Catherine has received a RFO from the Queen and with the Queen's permission declines to wear it because of the ivory and when RFO are made for the next reign non ivory Elizabethan RFOs will be made at the same time to replace the current ivory ones. It's only Camilla, Sophie, Alexandra, Anne, Duchess of Gloucester and Kate that would need new RFOs.

 

[Dman]

That's what I've been saying...the order being made with ivory is the issue. I think they should fix this. Have a new family order made by the royal jeweler or Spinks, without The Queen's portrait painted on ivory. Why on earth would Catherine be allowed to go on and on serving without the family order?

I almost wish the palace would come out with a statement that Catherine has received a RFO from the Queen and with the Queen's permission declines to wear it because of the ivory and when RFO are made for the next reign non ivory Elizabethan RFOs will be made at the same time to replace the current ivory ones. It's only Camilla, Sophie, Alexandra, Anne, Duchess of Gloucester and Kate that would need new RFOs.

I think the palace has never thought of and don't have an interest in issuing a statement about it. I don't even think they are receiving any questions about it. The senior vet of royal reporters are just as puzzled as we on why she don't have the family order yet. They're waiting for her to get too.

 

[Pranter]

Skippyboo...We might not see that happen until William ascends the throne.


LaRae

 

[MARG]

If we look at the orders of everyone from the Duke of Edinburgh on down can anyone with a straight face say one has 'earned' an order and another hasn't.

What has Sophie done to 'earn' the Order of St John but not Camilla?

IMO, by any criteria, Kate has done more than enough to be given the order. That William has stated he wants to get rid of all the ivory in BP, that is reason enoguh for me for Kate not to be wearing it.

Well, it really is mind-numbingly simple:

The Countess joined St John Ambulance as Grand President in 2004 and heads the work of St John's County Presidents who provide a variety of support for their local St John members.

And yes, she is a member of St John's itself and works for it.

 

[Skippyboo]

The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations

In this day and age, Charles can't have his RFOs be ivory. They may not remake the Queen's. But the next King's can't be ivory. Ivory was okay in 1952 not now and in the future.

 

[Pranter]

In this day and age, Charles can't have his RFOs be ivory. They may not remake the Queen's. But the next King's can't be ivory. Ivory was okay in 1952 not now and in the future.

Right I meant the re-making part. I fully expect Charles's to be made from some sort of ecologically sound/renewable type of material.

I would hate to see the current ones (or old ones with ivory) re-made at all. They are historical items to me.


LaRae

 

[Skippyboo]

The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations

By the time William is King not that many would have a Elizabeth RFO, Sophie? The others would be very old and probably not attending State Dinners. One of the interest factors with Kate and the Queen's RFO is that Kate has the potential for RFO's from 4 monarchs.

What happens to the RFOs of royals who have passed. Do they reused them? For example, Queen Mary's Elizabeth did it get given to a royal lady 20 years later? The Queen is the only one with a George V and Alexandra is the only other with a George VI besides the Queen's. Where are the RFOs that were the Queen Mum and Margaret's? Do they take the precious stones from older monarch's RFOs and reset them into the new monarch's order? I can't see them buying new diamonds each time there is a new monarch.