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  #441  
Old 08-31-2015, 09:19 AM
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I don't think you have to do "official" work for the Queen to get an honour from her. Prince Michael received the Grand Cross of the RVO from her in recognition of the work he had carried out on her and the royal family's behalf. He has done lots of things over the years and the Queen was obviously grateful for his contribution. Bearing in mind that his wife has been by his side on many of these occasions I do think she ought to have been given the RFO by now.
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  #442  
Old 08-31-2015, 09:26 AM
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There isn't any set rules. It's not like you have to do so many years of the official duties and then they give to you. The Queen and Margaret got a RFO from their grandfather as small children. They weren't doing anything to earn them. It just up to the monarch of the day to decide.


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  #443  
Old 08-31-2015, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
What happens to their orders when they die...do they go into safekeeping or to a family member (as a memento)?


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It depends on the order. I was able to read about this with a "royal family order" search, I think.
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  #444  
Old 08-31-2015, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
There isn't any set rules. It's not like you have to do so many years of the official duties and then they give to you. The Queen and Margaret got a RFO from their grandfather as small children. They weren't doing anything to earn them. It just up to the monarch of the day to decide.


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And Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester must have gotten hers also very early because the King died not even 3 months after her marriage.
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  #445  
Old 10-23-2015, 10:52 AM
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There was much discussion among Kate's blogger fans regarding her receiving the Royal Family Order from the Queen before the Chinese state visit. Upon seeing photos of the dinner, we know now that she did not receive it. If the Queen should die before bestowing that honor on Kate, would it then be Charles' picture on the award or is this strictly a Queen Elizabeth thing that Charles might or might not continue?
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  #446  
Old 10-23-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocketmom View Post
There was much discussion among Kate's blogger fans regarding her receiving the Royal Family Order from the Queen before the Chinese state visit. Upon seeing photos of the dinner, we know now that she did not receive it. If the Queen should die before bestowing that honor on Kate, would it then be Charles' picture on the award or is this strictly a Queen Elizabeth thing that Charles might or might not continue?
I'm sure that Charles, as King, could very well do away with the RFO if he wanted to but I really don't think he will. He's too much of a traditionalist. He may, however, change the material that the portrait is painted on instead of using ivory.

At the Chinese state banquet, HM wore the RFOs of her father and her grandfather so it is definitely not a QEII thing.
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  #447  
Old 10-23-2015, 01:19 PM
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The RFO started with George IV so it's not a recent thing. I would think from now on the RFO would not be on ivory for future monarchs.


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  #448  
Old 10-23-2015, 01:54 PM
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Don't think the used of ivory was thought about when the RFO were being made in the past. Perhaps a new Order will be made for Catherine and new ones will be used by the royals in the future.
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  #449  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:01 PM
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Queen Mary had one for the Queen and she died couple of weeks before the coronation in 1953 so they were made in 1952/1953. Ivory wasn't a concern then that it is now. No way can they use ivory for future ones.


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  #450  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:03 PM
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I find the RFO pretty discutable. Either you give all Princesses of the House an Order (á la Norway and Sweden) or you do not give any such Order at all. But to leave it all "at the Queen's pleasure" and keeping it absolutely unclear who, when, where and why a lady receives such an Order or not, this is just divisive inside a family and is absurd.

When the rule is that daughers (in law) of a Sovereign or a Heir all receive the Family Order, then it is clear. But all this misty doing-and-not-doing is unworthy towards the ladies in question because it derails into a sort "competition" and into "first rank and second rank"-ladies which is absurd for 2015.

I hope King Charles III or King William V will review this strange system.
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  #451  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I find the RFO pretty discutable. Either you give all Princesses of the House an Order (á la Norway and Sweden) or you do not give any such Order at all. But to leave it all "at the Queen's pleasure" and keeping it absolutely unclear who, when, where and why a lady receives such an Order or not, this is just divisive inside a family and is absurd.

When the rule is that daughers (in law) of a Sovereign or a Heir all receive the Family Order, then it is clear. But all this misty doing-and-not-doing is unworthy towards the ladies in question because it derails into a sort "competition" and into "first rank and second rank"-ladies which is absurd for 2015.

I hope King Charles III or King William V will review this strange system.
Well, it seems the ones that get the Order are senior working female members of the royal family. I think that for the best, but I think the Order's should be announced and it shouldn't take such a long time to get it. Like Catherine, she's been working within the "Firm" since 2011. She has accompanied William on official royal tours since 2011, including a big Diamond Jubliee Tour. She has represented The Queen and Country abroad on those tours and she carry out an official diary of engagements around the UK. She has also provided two heirs to the throne. She should have her RFO by now. If not by her 5th wedding anniversary. The idea of having to wait years and years to get a pat on the back in a very demanding job like that is just off, IMO.
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  #452  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:26 PM
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When such a family hands out Orders, then Catherine should have become hers at the wedding: "You are now part of Our Family, welcome, dearest Catherine!".

In all other European monarchies the consort to the Heir is created a Dame Grand-Cross into the same Order shared by the Heir: St Olav for Mette-Marit, the Seraphim for Daniel, the Elephant for Mary, the Lion for Máxima, the Léopold for Mathilde, etc. Only in the UK Diana, Camilla and Catherine receive nothing, not even a RFO, they have to "wait" and have no idea when mommy-in-law or grandmaman-in-law will be "pleased" enough to "honour" them. No, this system is ripe for revision.
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  #453  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I find the RFO pretty discutable. Either you give all Princesses of the House an Order (á la Norway and Sweden) or you do not give any such Order at all. But to leave it all "at the Queen's pleasure" and keeping it absolutely unclear who, when, where and why a lady receives such an Order or not, this is just divisive inside a family and is absurd.

When the rule is that daughers (in law) of a Sovereign or a Heir all receive the Family Order, then it is clear. But all this misty doing-and-not-doing is unworthy towards the ladies in question because it derails into a sort "competition" and into "first rank and second rank"-ladies which is absurd for 2015.

I hope King Charles III or King William V will review this strange system.
I kind of agree with you. Even though I see why they do as they do. They do it so that it really is given because they are thought to deserve it and want to give it. But it does open up for alot of unneccessary speculation. Especially since it's a Royal Family Order, making it feel like that is a "welcome to the family"-thing. I hope it can be handled more delicatly in the future to avoid pitting royals agains each other, or at least with some more transperancy.
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  #454  
Old 10-23-2015, 03:10 PM
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I kind of agree with you. Even though I see why they do as they do. They do it so that it really is given because they are thought to deserve it and want to give it. But it does open up for alot of unneccessary speculation. Especially since it's a Royal Family Order, making it feel like that is a "welcome to the family"-thing. I hope it can be handled more delicatly in the future to avoid pitting royals agains each other, or at least with some more transperancy.
I don't think the royals go against each other over this kind of thing, but it leads to a great deal of speculation for the media and royal watchers.

Some good time has passed for Catherine though, and she should at least have the family Order for the upcoming Diplomatic Corps Reception or the next State Visit in the spring.
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  #455  
Old 10-23-2015, 03:36 PM
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This probably won't help, but it could be a generational thing where by only female daughters/daughter's-in-law of the Monarch and royal-born females of the next generation below the Monarch receive it.
If this theory is correct Catherine may not get the RFO until Charles is king and he may also bestow the order onto Beatrice and Eugenie too.
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  #456  
Old 10-23-2015, 03:50 PM
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Jack,
I am not sure if your theory works as Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret received their Grandfatrher's RFO (George V) when they were quite young in 1935
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  #457  
Old 10-23-2015, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
There isn't any set rules. It's not like you have to do so many years of the official duties and then they give to you. The Queen and Margaret got a RFO from their grandfather as small children. They weren't doing anything to earn them. It just up to the monarch of the day to decide.


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IMO Queen Elizabeth has made the whole RFO thing unnecessarily complicated. In the past it simply denoted that the lady in question was a member of the royal family and that was it. When a lady entered the British royal family she was given it straight away. Princess Marina of Greece, for example, actually wore the Order of her father in law, King George V, on her wedding dress. His other daughters in law didn't but also received it straight away. Similarly, female royal children received the Order of the Monarch they lived under and would wear that Order in adulthood along with the Order of the current Monarch. Thus we had Princess Margaret wearing George V's; her father George VI's and her sister's Order all at the same time. Princess Alexandra of Kent also wears the George VI Order along with the current Queen's even though she was only a child when she received them. The media also keep saying that so-called 'senior' royal ladies have the RFO when all of them except Kate and Princess Michael have it so that's more poor reporting but I am going off point. Basically the Queen has made the whole issue complicated when it never was before. If it is all to do with 'hard work' then she has not only introduced criteria for receiving it that was never there before but she's also changed her own rules considering that she awarded it to her 16 year old cousin who was still a school girl at the time.
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  #458  
Old 10-23-2015, 04:32 PM
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Jack,
I am not sure if your theory works as Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret received their Grandfatrher's RFO (George V) when they were quite young in 1935
I knew my theory it wouldn't help!

From what Angela has said in the previous post, there seems to be no set rules these days about the RFO and it is at the Queen's own discretion - how she decides is anyone's guess.
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  #459  
Old 10-23-2015, 04:38 PM
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I don't think the royals go against each other over this kind of thing, but it leads to a great deal of speculation for the media and royal watchers.

Some good time has passed for Catherine though, and she should at least have the family Order for the upcoming Diplomatic Corps Reception or the next State Visit in the spring.
Yes, I didn't mean between the royals (although the possibility COULD arise). But it seems like a non-clever PR thing. The royal family has it's best PR when it looks like a loving and tight knit family. And this waiting and speculating of the family order puts some strain on that "narrative".
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  #460  
Old 10-23-2015, 04:55 PM
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Historically the RFO has just been a pretty buable for female Royals to wear at evening events and I don't know why it hasn't been left at that by the present Queen.The Royal Victorian Order is the vehicle by which the Monarch of the day has always rewarded service to the Royal Family among both her family and staff so,as I already said, I don't understand why the RFO has been drawn into this.
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