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  #361  
Old 09-24-2016, 04:21 AM
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The Curse of Being a Royal Nobody - The Daily Beast


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  #362  
Old 09-24-2016, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Welcome to the forums!

I .

Then again, who can resist Prince "Cheeks" George??
Easily! Kate seems very popular in the US, at times I feel that nowadays the RF is more popular among a section of Americans than they are at home, at least the younger three, Will K and Harry.
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  #363  
Old 09-30-2016, 06:23 AM
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It baffles me that the Duchess still is commonly referred to as Kate Middleton in so many articles.
One should think that people by now should have a pretty good idea who she is.

Oh well, it's a common attitude among journalists that their readers are stupid and combine that with the snobbishness that exist among some journalists that royalty-stuff is beneath them, the logical conclusion must be that royal watchers are twice as stupid.
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  #364  
Old 09-30-2016, 10:27 AM
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It baffles me that the Duchess still is commonly referred to as Kate Middleton in so many articles.
One should think that people by now should have a pretty good idea who she is.

Oh well, it's a common attitude among journalists that their readers are stupid and combine that with the snobbishness that exist among some journalists that royalty-stuff is beneath them, the logical conclusion must be that royal watchers are twice as stupid.

I think it is OK if people still refer to the Duchess of Cambridge as Kate Middleton, especially in North America. The era of being deferential to royal families is long gone, especially in countries that are not monarchies themselves like the US, or where the monarchy is a distant reality as in Canada (see the previous debate on Canadians not bowing/curtsying to William and Catherine).

Furthermore, in modern society, women are not seen as losing their maiden identity when they get married. In other words, Catherine may have become HRH The Duchess of Cambridge in British law, but that doesn't erase her previous life as Kate Middleton, during which she became known as a public figure.

I understand your point and I am not saying it is correct or even appropriate to call her Kate Middleton. I just think it is not such a big deal.
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  #365  
Old 09-30-2016, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think it is OK if people still refer to the Duchess of Cambridge as Kate Middleton, especially in North America. The era of being deferential to royal families is long gone, especially in countries that are not monarchies themselves like the US, or where the monarchy is a distant reality as in Canada (see the previous debate on Canadians not bowing/curtsying to William and Catherine).

Furthermore, in modern society, women are not seen as losing their maiden identity when they get married. In other words, Catherine may have become HRH The Duchess of Cambridge in British law, but that doesn't erase her previous life as Kate Middleton, during which she became known as a public figure.

I understand your point and I am not saying it is correct or even appropriate to call her Kate Middleton. I just think it is not such a big deal.
yeah, but nobody really calls Mary, Mary Donaldson, or Sophie, Sophie Rhys-Jones, or Letizia, Letizia Ortiz. It may happen on occasion, but they're still very much referred to by their title. It feels like Kate is the only one who is almost always called Kate Middleton, or incorrectly Princess Kate. It's just annoying. Like with many things, it's just not applied equally. Which is what bugs me about it. It'd be one thing if the Daily Mail was referring to all the women who marry into royalty by their maiden names, but they don't. Just Kate.

I can't speak for Muhler, but for me, it's just annoying. It's nothing about being deferential to monarchy, it's about using a title.
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  #366  
Old 09-30-2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
yeah, but nobody really calls Mary, Mary Donaldson, or Sophie, Sophie Rhys-Jones, or Letizia, Letizia Ortiz. It may happen on occasion, but they're still very much referred to by their title. It feels like Kate is the only one who is almost always called Kate Middleton, or incorrectly Princess Kate. It's just annoying. Like with many things, it's just not applied equally. Which is what bugs me about it. It'd be one thing if the Daily Mail was referring to all the women who marry into royalty by their maiden names, but they don't. Just Kate.

I can't speak for Muhler, but for me, it's just annoying. It's nothing about being deferential to monarchy, it's about using a title.

Actually, in Latin America, Letizia is still called sometimes Letizia Ortiz and Máxima is definitely called Máxima Zorreguieta. It is not common in English-speaking countries, I think, because Letizia or Máxima were not really known public figures there before marrying into a royal family and getting the titles they have today, so few people actually know them by their maiden names.
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  #367  
Old 09-30-2016, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Actually, in Latin America, Letizia is still called sometimes Letizia Ortiz and Máxima is definitely called Máxima Zorreguieta. It is not common in English-speaking countries, I think, because Letizia or Máxima were not really known public figures there before marrying into a royal family and getting the titles they have today, so few people actually know them by their maiden names.
Letizia was a journalist before her engagement, so I'm sure many people in Spain knew her as Letizia Ortiz. Now, granted I don't read as many Spanish articles as I do, unfortunately, for the British press, but I don't see Letizia or Maxima referred to almost always as Letizia Ortiz, etc. Sometimes, sure, but it just doesn't seem to happen at the same intensity as Kate.

And I don't quite get the argument regarding their maiden name. If you knew Kate Middleton, then surely you knew she was dating a Prince and surely you knew they got married, so how hard is it to recognize that Duchess Kate is Kate Middleton? It's this idea, at least in America, that people are too stupid to follow the simplest thing. And sometimes, I'd certainly agree when it comes to politics, but I think most people can figure out who Princess Mary, Queen Letizia, Duchess Kate, etc is. If you move on from the maiden name, people will catch up.
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  #368  
Old 09-30-2016, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think it is OK if people still refer to the Duchess of Cambridge as Kate Middleton, especially in North America. The era of being deferential to royal families is long gone, especially in countries that are not monarchies themselves like the US, or where the monarchy is a distant reality as in Canada (see the previous debate on Canadians not bowing/curtsying to William and Catherine).

Furthermore, in modern society, women are not seen as losing their maiden identity when they get married. In other words, Catherine may have become HRH The Duchess of Cambridge in British law, but that doesn't erase her previous life as Kate Middleton, during which she became known as a public figure.

I understand your point and I am not saying it is correct or even appropriate to call her Kate Middleton. I just think it is not such a big deal.

If I were a woman who consciously decided to give up my maiden name and took over my husband´s (the same goes visa versa) and my environment stubbornly refused to refer to my new "identity"/ name even years later I´d be very upset and angry!
I think the media was simply to lazy to get used to her new title and things would have been easier if she was given the title "Princess" (it´s complicated: She IS a Princess of the United Kingdom of GB and NIrland but at the same time she is not "Princess Catherine"...) and I´m sure everyone would refer to her as such. But The Duchess of Cambridge might be too unpersonal referring to a lady who is so warm and approachable.

But this subject is, alas, not new. In some countries (France, Germany and some others, Williams mother is still "Lady Di", hardly referred to as The Princess of Wales....

On the other hand: When Sofia Hellqvist got married to Pr Carl Philip of Sweden, she was "Princess Sofia" to everyone since day 1.... Weird indeed!
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  #369  
Old 09-30-2016, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
If I were a woman who consciously decided to give up my maiden name and took over my husband´s (the same goes visa versa) and my environment stubbornly refused to refer to my new "identity"/ name even years later I´d be very upset and angry!
I think the media was simply to lazy to get used to her new title and things would have been easier if she was given the title "Princess" (it´s complicated: She IS a Princess of the United Kingdom of GB and NIrland but at the same time she is not "Princess Catherine"...) and I´m sure everyone would refer to her as such. But The Duchess of Cambridge might be too unpersonal referring to a lady who is so warm and approachable.

But this subject is, alas, not new. In some countries (France, Germany and some others, Williams mother is still "Lady Di", hardly referred to as The Princess of Wales....

On the other hand: When Sofia Hellqvist got married to Pr Carl Philip of Sweden, she was "Princess Sofia" to everyone since day 1.... Weird indeed!
In Latin-language countries women keep their maiden names. Hence Catherine Elizabeth Middleton on the legal papers against the French pap, references to Lady Di, Letizia Ortiz, Maxima Zorrigueta.

In the US she's called Kate Middleton in the papers because they get more clicks that way.
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  #370  
Old 09-30-2016, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
If I were a woman who consciously decided to give up my maiden name and took over my husband´s (the same goes visa versa) and my environment stubbornly refused to refer to my new "identity"/ name even years later I´d be very upset and angry!
I think the media was simply to lazy to get used to her new title and things would have been easier if she was given the title "Princess" (it´s complicated: She IS a Princess of the United Kingdom of GB and NIrland but at the same time she is not "Princess Catherine"...) and I´m sure everyone would refer to her as such. But The Duchess of Cambridge might be too unpersonal referring to a lady who is so warm and approachable.

But this subject is, alas, not new. In some countries (France, Germany and some others, Williams mother is still "Lady Di", hardly referred to as The Princess of Wales....

On the other hand: When Sofia Hellqvist got married to Pr Carl Philip of Sweden, she was "Princess Sofia" to everyone since day 1.... Weird indeed!
I think it has everything to do with the other royal ladies being able to use their first names along with their title: Crown Princess Mary, Queen Letizia, Queen Maxima, Princess Sofia, etc. Then we have The Duchess of Cambridge....who? I know it's not exactly hard to figure out who it is, but it IS easier with a name to go with the title at first glance.
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  #371  
Old 09-30-2016, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
In Latin-language countries women keep their maiden names. Hence Catherine Elizabeth Middleton on the legal papers against the French pap, references to Lady Di, Letizia Ortiz, Maxima Zorrigueta.
In the US she's called Kate Middleton in the papers because they get more clicks that way.
I don´t think you can compare commoners with royals as royal people don´t have just a name to differ them from others but their names, along with their title, mark a specific status and the role they play in society.
So I don´t think you can say, in country so and so it is usual to keep ones name after you got married so this goes for the royals, too. These people are not such as you and I - no matter if we (or they) like it that way or not.
Part of the problem seems to be the tabloids who often can´t get it straight. The british press nicknamed Diana in the end of 1980 when she became linked to the P o Wales, "Lady Di" (Lady is a title, too, not a maiden name), and in many countries outside the UK she remained to be called that ridiculous way up till now....

And after their husbands accession I never read about the Queens of the Netherlds. and Spain being referred to by their maiden names anymore.

I agree with you on the internet clicks, though.
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  #372  
Old 09-30-2016, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
yeah, but nobody really calls Mary, Mary Donaldson, or Sophie, Sophie Rhys-Jones, or Letizia, Letizia Ortiz. It may happen on occasion, but they're still very much referred to by their title. It feels like Kate is the only one who is almost always called Kate Middleton, or incorrectly Princess Kate. It's just annoying. Like with many things, it's just not applied equally. Which is what bugs me about it. It'd be one thing if the Daily Mail was referring to all the women who marry into royalty by their maiden names, but they don't. Just Kate.

I can't speak for Muhler, but for me, it's just annoying. It's nothing about being deferential to monarchy, it's about using a title.
It does actually annoy me.
Not on behalf of W&K, I think they'll survive.
But because it's slobby journalism. It's in the details.
If they can't get a simple thing right, or worse, won't write a simple title correctly, what else is wrong?
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  #373  
Old 09-30-2016, 06:58 PM
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I think the answer to why Kate and not the others still get called by their maiden name is simple, she is the one who was known prior to marriage. Other than local media and perhaps some exceptions, Maxima, Mary, Letizia and others weren't known to the international media and viewers prior To Marriage. If you asked many people who Letizia Ortiz was, if they were not royal fans or framiliar eith Spanish news casters, they likely wouldn't know. Kate on the other hand we spent nearly ten years seeing Kate Middleton. Then we got the will and Kate movie and so on. There is that association .

Honestly I don't think the reporters are being sloppy. They know what they are doing, right or wrong. Majority of people read their articles on line. They need the most hits possible. You google Kate vs duchess of Cambridge, Kate gets far more.
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  #374  
Old 09-30-2016, 08:08 PM
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My guess is that the tabloid media will carry on with the Kate Middleton references until she becomes Princess of Wales. They'll then have no excuse.
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  #375  
Old 10-01-2016, 07:37 AM
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My guess is that the tabloid media will carry on with the Kate Middleton references until she becomes Princess of Wales. They'll then have no excuse.
I'm thinking along the same lines, but also as said by Countessmeout in the previous post, a lot of it has to do with Kate being in the media as Kate Middleton for a decade before becoming the Duchess of Cambridge.

I've (like it matters!) no objection to her being called by her own surname (I hope she doesn't either), but very much dislike reporters refering to her as "Middleton".

That is a put down and a very deliberate one.
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  #376  
Old 10-01-2016, 08:21 AM
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I think they do mind. Prince William always refers to his wife in speeches or interviews as "Catherine", never as "Kate". So I believe firmly he must be very annoyed about this "Kate-Middleton-thing"
At the same time he´s often refered to as "Will", or "Wills" as if he was these journalists best buddy... Sometimes I wonder who these people think they are!
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  #377  
Old 10-01-2016, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
I think they do mind. Prince William always refers to his wife in speeches or interviews as "Catherine", never as "Kate". So I believe firmly he must be very annoyed about this "Kate-Middleton-thing"
At the same time he´s often refered to as "Will", or "Wills" as if he was these journalists best buddy... Sometimes I wonder who these people think they are!
I think this where the formal and informal get a bit muddied.

As formally "Kate" is Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, William will always refer to her as such in the first name in formal discussion.

Going back to the engagement interview (abiet also a formal discussion!), I'm fairly sure he called her Kate.
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  #378  
Old 10-01-2016, 08:31 AM
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Familiarity breeds contempt. We've certainly seen that play out. The media could care less about going to far. The only reason they are constrained at all is the laws. Look at what they get away with still.


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  #379  
Old 10-01-2016, 06:55 PM
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It annoys me, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
It does actually annoy me.
Not on behalf of W&K, I think they'll survive.
But because it's slobby journalism. It's in the details.
If they can't get a simple thing right, or worse, won't write a simple title correctly, what else is wrong?
And, for the same reason; sloppy journalism and possibly a way of saying "you are not better than us". I also read that Catherine's father said that they had always called her Catherine, not Kate. I very much dislike the way the media makes up nicknames for people in such a familiar manner.
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  #380  
Old 10-01-2016, 07:11 PM
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The Royal Family and the Media

It's not a made up nickname by the press. William has used it before when talking to people in crowds. She used it in college. People magazine's wedding issue had an interview with an American who was at St Andrews with them. Picture of a note written for her birthday signed Kate.

It would not have lasted this long if she didn't go by it. However, her perpetually being referred to as Kate Middleton by the press is bad. However many years from now, is it going to be Kate Middleton crowned at Westminster Abbey?


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