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  #861  
Old 12-30-2013, 05:25 PM
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I'd absolutely hate it, but I'm not Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. She is a woman who has spent more than 60 years doing this very sort of thing and heretofore she's given every indication she enjoyed doing it. It's her life. It's part of the price she pays for that position of great privilege, and one of the ways of keeping public support. She made a point of vowing to do her duty it for the rest of her life. Frankly I have always thought it was naive and foolish of her to make that public vow, but when you're in your 20s you do things like that because you cannot imaging what it is like to be in your 80s and getting tired of it all. But the point is she is the monarch and it comes with the territory.

Her choices are not limited to the extremes of either continuing to do everything as she has in the past, or abdicating. At her age it's unreasonable to expect her to keep up the pace, but if she's going to deviate from what she's done for decades she should give notice of these plans. Everyone would understand if given notice.
How much notice would have been sufficient? Sometimes you just can't give notice. What if she had been feeling ill but decided to go to church anyway and had planned on accepting flowers but at the last minute didn't feel up to it?

We, of course, don't know why she didn't accept the flowers but in the scheme in things, I think for some (not pointing a finger at you) there is no acceptable reason on why she did not. She is the Queen, she lives a life of privilege and she should be ready whenever and however the public wants to see her. Anything less is unacceptable, at least that what the DM readership, seem to think.
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  #862  
Old 12-30-2013, 05:27 PM
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I'd absolutely hate it, but I'm not Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. She is a woman who has spent more than 60 years doing this very sort of thing and heretofore she's given every indication she enjoyed doing it. It's her life. It's part of the price she pays for that position of great privilege, and one of the ways of keeping public support. She made a point of vowing to do her duty it for the rest of her life. Frankly I have always thought it was naive and foolish of her to make that public vow, but when you're in your 20s you do things like that because you cannot imaging what it is like to be in your 80s and getting tired of it all. But the point is she is the monarch and it comes with the territory.

Her choices are not limited to the extremes of either continuing to do everything as she has in the past, or abdicating. At her age it's unreasonable to expect her to keep up the pace, but if she's going to deviate from what she's done for decades she should give notice of these plans. Everyone would understand if given notice.

As for the argument that it wasn't a public engagement, in my opinion in some ways that makes it worse. It was one of those things she has always done where she is able to privately connect with some of her subjects. And at a time of year when there is a focus on tradition and family and the symbiotic relationship between monarch and subject. So for her to, for whatever reason, not stop and collect those flowers has a symbolic significance which makes it a big deal. "I might have done it for years but that was because it suited me. It doesn't suit me today so I'm not going to do it. I'm the Queen and what I want is more important than what you want. And your little boy isn't important to me today. I've got a new great-grandson who is going to be future king. He's important, as I've just told you. Didn't you watch my speech?"
So funny. As a piece of fiction that last piece is amazing.
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  #863  
Old 12-30-2013, 05:34 PM
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How much notice would have been sufficient? Sometimes you just can't give notice. What if she had been feeling ill but decided to go to church anyway and had planned on accepting flowers but at the last minute didn't feel up to it?

We, of course, don't know why she didn't accept the flowers but in the scheme in things, I think for some (not pointing a finger at you) there is no acceptable reason on why she did not. She is the Queen, she lives a life of privilege and she should be ready whenever and however the public wants to see her. Anything less is unacceptable, at least that what the DM readership, seem to think.
When I speak of notice I am speaking of advance notice. Of course things can change on the day. My problem in this specific instance is the lack of any reason at all. There could have been a most reasonable explanation. What I am saying is one should have been given. The only one we have is the absurd one that she didn't want to be late for dinner.
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  #864  
Old 12-30-2013, 05:36 PM
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So funny. As a piece of fiction that last piece is amazing.
So glad I've entertained you.
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  #865  
Old 12-30-2013, 05:56 PM
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and may very well have turned some of them into republicans in one go.
You wish Iluvbertie...
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  #866  
Old 12-30-2013, 06:46 PM
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Wow! What an ugly b**** fest. I cannot believe the "entitled" attitude of some of these posts. HM went to church and for whatever reason, did not linger thereafter as is her most usual behaviour.

Now me, I would have been thinking "darn, I missed seeing her close up but gee, I hope she's OK" but not these people. Oh no, it's a long slow whine about how "she done them wrong". Oh grow up and get a life. The poor woman has given her all for her subjects and has been praised and castigated for her behaviour for her entire reign.

At 87 (almost 88), 60 years of unfailing faith and service to her country and people are counted as nothing and kicked to the curb whilst people metaphorically (some literally) stamp their feet, have a tantrum and throw their toys out of their cots because she didn't do what they wanted, no scratch that, demanded she do.

The Queen is a woman of faith. It was not a public engagement, it is an act of private worship. I'm truly sorry for those who just don't "get" that the Queen is a staunch, practising Christian and that means attending Chapel or Church. Their lives must be barren and their hearts cold to reduce her act of faith to an "photo op". Just because people can see her does not make it public or official but she takes the time to stop and mix.

The Mail article quoted someone present as saying they had been coming for 20 years and this is the first time she hasn't stopped to greet children and accept flowers. Doesn't that raise any warning signals? Is anyone in the least concerned that HM may not have been feeling quite the thing?
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  #867  
Old 12-30-2013, 06:55 PM
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The Mail article quoted someone present as saying they had been coming for 20 years and this is the first time she hasn't stopped to greet children and accept flowers. Doesn't that raise any warning signals? Is anyone in the least concerned that HM may not have been feeling quite the thing?
That was my thought too. And the criticism that doesn't take this into account is very, very ugly in my opinion.
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  #868  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:16 PM
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I agree. I think this argument has been blown out of proportion with one side trying to take offense and attack the Queen and the other side is up in arms trying to defend her. Neither side seems to want to actually look at the bigger issue here.

The Queen has a long standing tradition of meeting people like this, and she's not a woman who easily breaks from her traditions or duties. She's not the type to blow something like this off because she has to go to the bathroom or because her lunch might get cold - as Bertie pointed out, she grew up under the influence of Queen Mary and learned the importance of never showing weakness or discomfort and doing her duty. Queen Mary was a woman who understood the effort her subjects made in order to see her and felt it was important that she take the time for them - a lesson that she passed on to her granddaughter.

I don't believe for a moment that the Queen simply had to go to the bathroom or didn't want to be late for lunch. This behaviour is out of character for her, and I think it's ridiculous of us to attack her for it or dismiss it as unimportant. Something's up here and I think those of us on this forum who clearly should know enough about the Queen to know that she doesn't just blow off her subjects because she has to pee should be showing a bit more concern for her here.
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  #869  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:52 PM
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OK. Say she just wasn't feeling well. Maybe her back was killing her. Why not tell the truth about it and end speculation before it starts?
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  #870  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:53 PM
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OK. Say she just wasn't feeling well. Maybe her back was killing her. Why not tell the truth about it and end speculation before it starts?
because a local bobby said someything he shouldn't havedone and the DM picked up on that and a moaning mother before anyone realised what they had said
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  #871  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:56 PM
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because a local bobby said someything he shouldn't havedone and the DM picked up on that and a moaning mother before anyone realised what they had said
But that shouldn't have been allowed to happen. This family has a PR machine. They should use it. But I'll shut up about it now. Even I'm getting sick of it.
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  #872  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:58 PM
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But that shouldn't have been allowed to happen. This family has a PR machine. They should use it.
it happened at the time - this was not a public engagement with the full panoply of royal PR. She went to Church and needed to go home. Really thats it.

Its not been mentioned anywhere else and now the media are concentrating on the Honours list and it is probably forgotten
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  #873  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:09 PM
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because a local bobby said someything he shouldn't havedone and the DM picked up on that and a moaning mother before anyone realised what they had said
Send that bobby back to walking a beat and rescuing cats in trees for causing such a kerfuffle!
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  #874  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:10 PM
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OK. Say she just wasn't feeling well. Maybe her back was killing her. Why not tell the truth about it and end speculation before it starts?
Saying she was unwell would have opened another can of worms IMO. Than it would be back to back articles in the tabloids, on the telly and here at TRF....with the same basic questions..What is wrong with the Queen. Has she seen the doctor? What does he/she say? What is the recovery process.

It would have been a bigger nightmare. Surely everyone remembers what it was like when Prince Phillip and/or the Duchess of Cambridge was in the hospital.
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:13 PM
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it happened at the time - this was not a public engagement with the full panoply of royal PR. She went to Church and needed to go home. Really thats it.

Its not been mentioned anywhere else and now the media are concentrating on the Honours list and it is probably forgotten
I spoke too soon.

The Queen tried to treat Diana's death and funeral as a private event, too. Remember what happened then? Quite a few members of the public didn't like the way she responded to something that mattered a lot to them. How many member of the public need to become unhappy for it to become important enough for the Royal PR machine to become involved?

Nothing that involves the Queen - at least nothing that touches on her relationship and interactions with her subjects - is entirely private and without the need for PR.

And nothing that finds its way into the papers is ever really forgotten.
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  #876  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:14 PM
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Send that bobby back to walking a beat and rescuing cats in trees for causing such a kerfuffle!
Never underestimate the importance of rescuing cats in trees.

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It would have been a bigger nightmare. Surely everyone remembers what it was like when Prince Phillip and/or the Duchess of Cambridge was in the hospital.
But isn't it preferable for people to be worrying about them than thinking they are arrogant and don't care about kids with bunches of flowers?
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:17 PM
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So true; if he could cajole cats down from trees, he'd be top cop in my book!

And looking at the picture of that forlorn little boy clutching his flowers by HM's car, she should at least have taken that bunch. He was right there. That photo was the "money shot," much to the Queen's disadvantage and a PR disaster.
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  #878  
Old 12-30-2013, 09:20 PM
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Look they set this stuff up, themselves,. Yes she is elderly, my mother will be 99 is 2 weeks and still travels on her own, but has bad days, too. If she is so religious, she can attend church privately. I am sure that is doable for her. You set up this PR thing then you have to go trough with it, or make an announcement that HM will not be accepting flowers and whatever. People come because they are lead to believe that they will be able to see and approach them or someone else. Give them advance notice.
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  #879  
Old 12-30-2013, 09:22 PM
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Thank you for posting that video from 1990, cracked me up that P Anne was wearing the same outfit!
What a beautiful, intimate church.
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  #880  
Old 12-30-2013, 09:29 PM
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But that shouldn't have been allowed to happen. This family has a PR machine. They should use it. But I'll shut up about it now. Even I'm getting sick of it.
I agree with everything you said, I'm sorry I ever put up a link to the article. however the Royal Household should have a half decent PR machine and there is no arguing that once the story came out all it seemed the Queen's team of 5+ PR staff did was confirm that she had been delayed on Christmas Day so was late for lunch. This is what the BBC reported and whilst I don't trust the media 100% I trust the BBC more than any other. Instead they should have said from the off - this was a private event and not a public one and the Queen does not always accept flowers but sometimes lets her family do it on her behalf.
Ironically this is what they said 24hrs + later by which point is was too late as the damage had been done.
Interestingly I think the Queen is between Press Secretaries at the moment, waiting to appoint a new one.
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