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  #521  
Old 12-25-2012, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by padams2359 View Post
Are those the same books that would quote how many times an heir presumptive has missed a royal Family Christmas to be with his pregnant wife at his in-laws? "Times they are a chang'n.". Books on the Royal Family are a snapshot of the moment.
I don't know what books you're talking about, but the most recent Royal Christmas Itinerary came out last December. It's exactly the same as the one published when Catherine was first on the scene. I'll try and find it. I quite disagree that royal books are snapshots, have you seen the QMs biography?
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  #522  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:04 PM
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The books and articles you quoted 4 post above. That is the itinerary for Sandringham. The prince's ex wives have stayed on estate in the past. Why would they allow family that they actually appear to like to stay for the sake of spending time with their grandchild. They would not have to be on some official guest list. Just close enough to make it easier on everyone. It would only make them look even more accepting.
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  #523  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padams2359 View Post
Are those the same books that would quote how many times an heir presumptive has missed a royal Family Christmas to be with his pregnant wife at his in-laws? "Times they are a chang'n.". Books on the Royal Family are a snapshot of the moment.

Thanks, padams.

I would think that protection of the heir and his/her mother would be the primary concern of everyone on both sides of the family.

Apparently HG is a serious enough illness that some women are unable to appear in public at all. No one in Kate's family will mind if she doesn't dress for dinner- or at all- and undoubtedly one or more of them will attend her if she is overcome by cooking smells and becomes ill.
And anyway, William never in his life experienced an intimate family Christmas, and he had very few Christmases in an intact family. (Nor did Henry).

A woman enduring an uncomfortable pregnancy must be listened to and considered. I rather doubt that any senior royals are thinking unkind thoughts about this situation.
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  #524  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by padams2359 View Post
The books and articles you quoted 4 post above. That is the itinerary for Sandringham. The prince's ex wives have stayed on estate in the past. Why would they allow family that they actually appear to like to stay for the sake of spending time with their grandchild. They would not have to be on some official guest list. Just close enough to make it easier on everyone. It would only make them look even more accepting.
I'm quite unsure of what you're talking about. But if you search google, you'll find pages of articles of the royal Christmas itinerary that usually starts on the 23rd. Tradition is tradition, it should remain that way.
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  #525  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:15 PM
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I'm sure the Middleton would say the same thing, but since they're not royals I guess their tradition are not important

From what I've read about HG, they say long distance travel make it worse
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  #526  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:23 PM
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Traditions do change, even in the BRF. They used to spend Christmas at Windsor, in fact.
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  #527  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:27 PM
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I don't see what the problem is. I bet most of the public will look at the situation and say William and Catherine are handling Christmas much the same as they do, 1 year with his family and the next year with her family. Traditions change and new traditions are established and life moves on. Even the monarchy cannot remain stuck in the past, it adapts and changes and moves forward.
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  #528  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:27 PM
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William and Kate are doomed to spend the rest of their lives serving the people and for some time yet will probably spend Christmases with the extended Royal Family, because once the child is born it will be Royal and a future monarch will have to take its place within the fold. When Charles becomes king, things might change a little with only his children and their spouses and children required to attend and his siblings and their families might be released from the obligation.

Kate is not well, as a direct result of performing what is her most important duty as William's wife, and that is producing the future monarch. I think it's wonderful that she is spending this Christmas with her own family, where she can relax and enjoy the time without worrying about having to put up with hoards of strangers around her and the formality of Christmas at Sandringham. And her Royal in-laws are strangers to her, and when you're sick you want to be with people you are comfortable with.

I also think it's not a bad thing that William has broken with tradition this way. IMO not all traditions are good ones, and I think that insisting that all members of the Royal Family spend every Christmas day with the Monarch is rather selfish. Times change and as the children grow and marry they acquire an extended family, but Royal tradition has been to require the incomer to always give priority to the Royal Family, not their own. But each person who marries in has a family of their own, and after marriage that family is part of the family of the Royal spouse. The Middletons are part of William's family now and he seems to recognise this and I applaud him for it.
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  #529  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:47 PM
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As royal "watchers", we need to consider whether it is our needs or those of individual members of the BRF that we are prioritising.

I love to see the whole family together, mainly because it is so difficult to achieve this. and it would have great to see William and Catherine at Sandringham.

But that's what I and others on this forum wanted. But this year it was not practical. Just one look at Catherine highlighted that she is not her usual self. I'd rather she was relaxed and at ease with her feet up and starts to feel better.

Slight sideways shift - I wonder if the same debate is going on in the Netherlands as W-A, Macima and the girls all headed off to Argentina for Christmas. Just off to that thread to check it out.

I know it's late but Happy Christmas everyone
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  #530  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:14 PM
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Think everyone knows by now that The Queen and royal family are more kind to the in-laws than they were in the past. Sophie's father is included in just about everything. He rides in the carriages during Royal Ascot, he attends the Royal Jorse Show and everything.

William & Catherine made it pretty clear in their engagement interview that family is very important to them and William won't allow the Middletons be shut out of Catherine's life just because she's a senior royal and now dedicated to the "Firm." Now we see the Middletons at Royal Ascot, they have attended the Trooping of the Colour and they attended the Diamond Jubliee Pagaent. The Middleton family is very dear to William & Catherine and there was nothing wrong with them spending part of their Christmas with them.

Now they will go on to Sandringham and spend time with the royal family. They just killed two birds with one stone. That's pretty much all they did, the didn't break any royal traditions.
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  #531  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:14 PM
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I'm going to remember some of the comments on here the next time there is a discussion about the Windsors or the BRF being out of touch.

It amazes me that Christmas at Sandringham is the line in the sand for some people. Miss this and the entire institution is on the way out

Change the 300 year old Act of Settlement to make it more politically correct, by all means no problem but William for the love of God, whatever you do, don't you dare spend a single married Christmas with Catherine and her family because royal 'tradition' demands your presence in Norfolk

Christmas at Sandringham is a private family celebration, not an ancient constitutional requirement, and just like all private family celebrations, plans can change.

I hope William and Catherine and Harry never go to Sandringham again just so I can read the funny comments.
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  #532  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:18 PM
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The main royal tradition I have seen William & Harry and Charles & Camilla drop is attending Easter at Windsor with the royal family. They haven't gone in years. I was hoping they would start attending again. It would be nice to see the Cambridges and the baby attend Easter Service at Windsor.

Then again, I guess William & Catherine, Harry and Charles & Camilla just do their own thing for Easter.
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  #533  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:27 PM
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Well, that's another Christmas over with! I did miss seeing William and Catherine at the church service at Sandringham but there is always next year! I hope all the royals at home and abroad and everyone here on TRF had a great day!
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  #534  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:36 PM
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I think one point that has been missed in this story of William being away from Sandringham this Christmas is that it meant that his father, Charles, had Christmas Day without either of his children - that is something that in my family, or my in-laws, would never have been allowed to happen - that at least one child was always spending Christmas with our parents.
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  #535  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Slight sideways shift - I wonder if the same debate is going on in the Netherlands as W-A, Macima and the girls all headed off to Argentina for Christmas. Just off to that thread to check it out.

I know it's late but Happy Christmas everyone
Mary and Frederik also spent Christmas away from the rest of the DRF. So it seems traditions are definitely changing with the royals.

I don't have a problem with Kate and William spending Christmas with her family. Especially since she's sick right now.

William and Kate are supposed to head out to Sandringham at some point during the holiday, so it's not like they will be completely absent from the royal family festivities.
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  #536  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:15 PM
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Gad Zooks, Catherine looks ill in the pictures of her church visit with the Middletons.
That was probably as much as she could tolerate for one day, as she must still have her illness. If this Sandringham tradition occurred a month or two later, it could have been different. Do you realize that when a person has hyperemissus gravidus, she can unexpectedly throw up at any time, even after an hour or two being OK? It would have been easier to have quick access to the "bathroom" or "loo" at the church of the Middletons. Probably all set up in advance by her aides, with a security man next to the bathroom just in case she had to use it suddenly. When she really begins to recover, it would not be such a potential very bad photo opportunity for her to walk or ride to the church in Sandringham.

What I'm wondering now is, what if Kate has another baby; will she have to time it so she won't possibly be sick at Christmas?
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  #537  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:21 PM
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It would be nice if she had twins, then she wouldn"t have to do it again.
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  #538  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:23 PM
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She doesn't have to do anything. The Line of the Succession to the British Throne is long enough not to worry about heirs.
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  #539  
Old 12-25-2012, 08:30 PM
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Gad Zooks, Catherine looks ill in the pictures of her church visit with the Middletons.
That was probably as much as she could tolerate for one day, as she must still have her illness. If this Sandringham tradition occurred a month or two later, it could have been different. Do you realize that when a person has hyperemissus gravidus, she can unexpectedly throw up at any time, even after an hour or two being OK? It would have been easier to have quick access to the "bathroom" or "loo" at the church of the Middletons. Probably all set up in advance by her aides, with a security man next to the bathroom just in case she had to use it suddenly. When she really begins to recover, it would not be such a potential very bad photo opportunity for her to walk or ride to the church in Sandringham.

What I'm wondering now is, what if Kate has another baby; will she have to time it so she won't possibly be sick at Christmas?
I think people just see what they want to see; Catherine was well enough to attend a Christmas service with her family, so obviously she could have done the exact same thing at Sandringham. I happen to agree with you; poor soul looked like death warmed over, ready to keel at any moment, so she may have been well at the time of leaving for church, but gotten progressively worse as the service went on. If she were at Sandringham, she would have to do a walk-about, and greet people. I can't imagine that she would be well enough to carry on a polite conversation, and be all pleasant, when her body won't give her a break. The couple made the right choice by going to a Christmas celebration that requires a little less from Catherine, and allows her to just relax on the sofa in her PJs if she so desires. There's no way she would be able to do such with her in-laws, because as it has been pointed out, there's a timetable and a dress code, which I'm sure doesn't include lounging in one's PJs on a drawing room sofa.
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  #540  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:11 PM
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Actually the access to a 'loo' argument would have been easier at Sandringham where a portaloo with access to only the RF was allowed would have been easier that to deny access to the loo to other parishioners - which would probably have had to be the case at Bucklebury (most churches I know have only one loo, or one block, which would have to have been blocked off for her).
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