The Monarchy under Charles

[lucien]

When Charles becomes King,finally...It will be as glorious and up to date as possible.A well trained Heir,and I really think he WILL do a great job,WITH Queen Camilla.No other title as the wives do have the courtesy titles if not Queens in their own right...But first HM will sit you all through a Brexit,so,first things first....Put the kettle on dear and make yourself a fine cuppa..

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Alex Salmond was wise enough, and Nicola Sturgeon will be equally wise, that evicting Her Majesty The Queen out of the Palace of Holyroodhouse would not be very helpful for their aim: to see an independent Scotland indeed.

An independence movement waving with a German Prince and a Liechtensteiner Princess or even the Duke of Alba can forget any chance on success. Those Jacobites are like the Carlists in Spain: a little nuisance, best to be ignored.

 

[duke of poliganc]

There are other claimants in site, always has been. Ever since the Glorious revolution. And it isn't a stretch to think, that if Scotland gained independence, and continued to be a monarchy (and not go full republic) there would not be those calling for a return to the proper Scottish line. Not saying it would go any where, that the queen would not remain, but the talk would certainly be there. Especially if Charles is king at the time. The reality is there is a Stewart line out there still. Issue being Sophie of Lichtenstein and her son are those heirs. We could see a case where an heir is chosen, like with the throne of Greece, and perhaps one of Sophie's younger children took up the Jacobite claim.

That said I think as long as Scotland remains a monarchy and doesn't go full republic, the Windsors will remain. But I don't think the Jacobite supporters will remain silent either.

i think Infanta Alicia of Spain, Dowager Duchess of Calabria is also a possible jacobite claimant

 

[Ish]

Yes, those are ceremonial events that's stretched out throughout the year. I'm talking about I would like to see the family doing more engagements together.



It would be nice to see Camilla and Catherine carry out some engagements together. Also, it would be nice if Charles & Camilla and William and Catherine got together and did some official engagements together.



The Swedish, Danish and Norwegian royals do act more like family unit than the British royals, IMO.

I'm not going to comment on the Norwegians because I don't follow them much.

But the Swedes... The King and Queen are frequently accused on these very forums of disliking that their eldest daughter is the heir apparent, and not being fans of their son-in-law. Their son married a woman who people are determined the rest of the family hates. Their youngest daughter doesn't even live in Sweden and her husband had done all that he can to make it clear that he is not a Swedish Royal.

And the Danes... You're seriously calling a family that has Prince Henrik in it as a symbol of unity? Seriously?

 

[Dman]

I'm not going to comment on the Norwegians because I don't follow them much.

But the Swedes... The King and Queen are frequently accused on these very forums of disliking that their eldest daughter is the heir apparent, and not being fans of their son-in-law. Their son married a woman who people are determined the rest of the family hates. Their youngest daughter doesn't even live in Sweden and her husband had done all that he can to make it clear that he is not a Swedish Royal.

And the Danes... You're seriously calling a family that has Prince Henrik in it as a symbol of unity? Seriously?

Not going to go into rumors. I'm just saying that it don't hurt to have more family unity within the main royals of the firm. I liked when Camilla and Catherine accompanied The Queen to an engagement in her Diamind Jubilee year, but I would like to see more of the three ladies together. I would like see Camilla and Catherine do more engagements together. Also, it would be nice to see Charles and his family (Cambridge's and Harry do some stuff together.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Yes, those are ceremonial events that's stretched out throughout the year. I'm talking about I would like to see the family doing more engagements together.

It would be nice to see Camilla and Catherine carry out some engagements together. Also, it would be nice if Charles & Camilla and William and Catherine got together and did some official engagements together.

The Swedish, Danish and Norwegian royals do act more like family unit than the British royals, IMO.

I don't agree! I live permanently in Norway now, and I follow the Danish and Norwegian royal families very closely and they don't act more like a family unit than the British royals.

And as I told you above, the BRF does the ceremonial events like the Trooping, State Opening, Garter Service, State Visits, Diplomatic Reception, and the Jubilees/birthdays celebrations together. They also does other events together. And for me thats more than enough.

The Danish and Norwegian royal families don't have all these ceremonial events, but they don't do many other events together either.

And as I also told you above, we see unity between HM and Charles all the time. His Golden Jubilee, 80th birthday, Diamond Jubilee, 90th birthday speeches, several documentary tributes to her and several speeches to her in private.

HM doesn't give interviews, but she praised Charles publicly during his 50th and 60th birthdays (where she also held a speech to him in private), and yes these are family events, but we don't see this in the Scandinavian royal families.

 

[Dman]

I don't agree! I live permanently in Norway now, and I follow the Danish and Norwegian royal families very closely and they don't act more like a family unit than the British royals.

And as I told you above, the BRF does the ceremonial events like the Trooping, State Opening, Garter Service, State Visits, Diplomatic Reception, and the Jubilees/birthdays celebrations together. They also does other events together. And for me thats more than enough.

The Danish and Norwegian royal families don't have all these ceremonial events, but they don't do many other events together either.

And as I also told you above, we see unity between HM and Charles all the time. His Golden Jubilee, 80th birthday, Diamond Jubilee, 90th birthday speeches, several documentary tributes to her and several speeches to her in private.

HM doesn't give interviews, but she praised Charles publicly during his 50th and 60th birthdays (where she also held a speech to him in private), and yes these are family events, but we don't see this in the Scandinavian royal families.

Royal Norway, you seem to be missing my point. I like when the royals get together for the large family events. There's unity in that.

I'm just saying I would like Charles & Camilla and William & Catherine to carry out some day and evening engagements sometimes. I would like to see some intimate family unity between them. It would be nice to see Catherine and Camilla team up on a day of official engagements. It would be nice to see more of Charles and William carrying out some engagements together. Family tours of Wales, Cornwall or Ireland would be nice, IMO.

I do see lots of a intimate family unity in the Scandinavian royal families.

 

[duke of poliganc]

you mean like in the past when QEQM and princess margaret would frequently carry out engagements together

 

[Dman]

you mean like in the past when QEQM and princess margaret would frequently carry out engagements together

Yes, but it would be nice to see the Monarch and heirs do more engagements together. The heir and his son with spouses could come together more often for some official engagements. I think this could be brought about in the next reign too.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Royal Norway, you seem to be missing my point. I like when the royals get together for the large family events. There's unity in that.

I'm just saying I would like Charles & Camilla and William & Catherine to carry out some day and evening engagements sometimes. I would like to see some intimate family unity between them. It would be nice to see Catherine and Camilla team up on a day of official engagements. It would be nice to see more of Charles and William carrying out some engagements together. Family tours of Wales, Cornwall or Ireland would be nice, IMO.

I do see lots of a intimate family unity in the Scandinavian royal families.

Dman, I agree with you in a lots of things, but not in this, because I don't see more of a intimate family unity in the Scandinavian royal families than the British. But I'm not missing you point and I respect your opinion.

 

[Queen Claude]

I think that the Swedish Royal Family is close knit, they spend time together off duty and seem to light up up when they are around each other. I don't see discord in the British Royal Family, and as already mentioned we are not deprived of seeing them as a group due to events like Trooping of the Color and the walk to church on Christmas morning, but I do not see close knit with the monarch and her heirs and I don't think you can force that.

 

[hernameispekka]

I think that the Swedish Royal Family is close knit, they spend time together off duty and seem to light up up when they are around each other. I don't see discord in the British Royal Family, and as already mentioned we are not deprived of seeing them as a group due to events like Trooping of the Color and the walk to church on Christmas morning, but I do not see close knit with the monarch and her heirs and I don't think you can force that.

Yeah, I understand that. It's not what I want. But I think it could "project a nice image" if the main royal line did more "bread and butter engagements" together. Seeing some "cooperation". Just as a nice visual, if you understand? Like in Sweden, the King and Crown Princess visited refugees together, in Denmark the Queen, Prince Henrik and the Crown Prince couple went on a tour in Asia somewhere together a decade back or so. (A tour might be a bit big, but I liked the "group engagements" that came out of William being away and Kate doing engagements with some other royals.)

 

[Dman]

I wouldn't mind Charles and Camilla and William and Catherine doing an official foreign tour together, but I was talking about an official annual tour to Wales or Cornwall and other cities in the UK.

It's not a forced idea. I think it's a good thing to see these royal couples get together and carry out some regional engagements.

 

[royal rob]

I wouldn't mind Charles and Camilla and William and Catherine doing an official foreign tour together, but I was talking about an official annual tour to Wales or Cornwall and other cities in the UK.

It's not a forced idea. I think it's a good thing to see these royal couples get together and carry out some regional engagements.

Can't see this ever happening it's not how Charles does things.

 

[Dman]

Can't see this ever happening it's not how Charles does things.

Well what's wrong with the couples carrying out some engagements together?

 

[Skippyboo]

William and Charles can't travel to together so that means separate cars, planes, helicopters and more costs. So 2 of the visiting Wales for an example cost twice as much as one Royal but it only covers the same area. If you have 2 different royals in different locations, you cover more area for the same prices approximately.




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[Osipi]

Just now, reading through the Royal Wealth and Finance thread, I was perusing through the categories of just who did what and where and whatnot and realized that the members of the BRF do appear jointly at events perhaps a bit more than we're realizing. In the segment of Overview of the Year and Public Engagements, quite a few are mentioned that has other members of the BRF attending along with HM, The Queen.

https://www.royal.uk/sites/default/files/media/sovereign_grant_annual_report_2015-16.pdf

 

[Skippyboo]

When the Queen has a reception at the palace, there is almost always multiple royals present. The Queen's young people award reception last week had multiple royals there for example.


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[Osipi]

Another good example was both the Queen and The Prince of Wales attending an event together for the Prince's Trust. Lots of different occasions we can point to.

 

[hernameispekka]

Just now, reading through the Royal Wealth and Finance thread, I was perusing through the categories of just who did what and where and whatnot and realized that the members of the BRF do appear jointly at events perhaps a bit more than we're realizing. In the segment of Overview of the Year and Public Engagements, quite a few are mentioned that has other members of the BRF attending along with HM, The Queen.

https://www.royal.uk/sites/default/files/media/sovereign_grant_annual_report_2015-16.pdf

It has become way more common. Phillip and the Queen rarely do engagements outside of london on their own anymore. Probably in case of them having to pull out (or worse), there is still royals present. Like Camilla and Charles joining on all bigger events, Anne being able to still continue the engagement where Phillip had to pull out etc.

 

[Dman]

I like when The Queen and Charles attended an event at the Prince's Trust. Also when Charles and Camilla accompanied The Queen and Prince Philip to open the Welsh Assembly. I would like to see them doing more of that.

I'd like to see Charles and Camilla, William and Catherine doing some duties together. Of course they would likely split up on the engagements and visit different areas. But it would be nice to see them doing some regional tours and then meet up back again for another event.

An event like this (when Charles, Camilla and William, Catherine attended a concert in aid of The Prince's Trust and Royal Foundation) should happen more often-
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/158162876

I'm just hoping to see a little more unity between at least the 5 main senior royals.

 

[AdmirerUS]

Well what's wrong with the couples carrying out some engagements together?

There is nothing wrong with it. There are downsides , however:
It's inefficient. There are not many occasions that call for a royal show of force to accomplish the goal of the event attendance. I could even argue that the large public appearances add more to concern for tradition (not a bad thing) than to the compelling need for the family to appear together.
It's not an even playing field. I put this down to the press' obsession with parts of the family. The additional attention gained by some family members is negligible when certain other family members attend. In fact, I personally think the press demeans the good works of some working royals when others are present.
I also have always thought that HM thinks her family should be able to stand on their own two feet and rep for the firm. Doing so spreads the love over more ground, more often. And I think she sees that as the family role.
Mutual appearances are great when there is a desire to show a united front, on family occasions, when newish royals are being guided or introduced to a constituency. JMO

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Since the 'uk leaves eu' thread has been shut for review due to it getting too emotionally charged - how do the fine folk of the Royal forums think the proposed exit of the U.K. from the eu will impact Charles's approach to being King?

Back on the other thread, there was speculation about the impact on the BRFs relationships with the other royals. Will the possible diminution of the UK's standing lead to a fundamental change in style,a doubling down on pomp and ceremony as a distraction? an upsurge of republican sentiment?

Given the real possibility that the UK could very well fall apart over this and long term economic stagnation is also probable, will Charles age and background be an advantage or a drawback?

I know that Charles is quite pro eu so this can't be a fun time for him - any suggestions?

 

[Curryong]

I think it will depend on a number of things. Just leaving the EU won't diminish the BRF standing. For 9/10ths of the history of the British Isles and the Royal Family, Britain wasn't in the EU. Why will there necessarily be longterm British economic stagnation?

The Commonwealth is still there. The British royals don't make that many official trips to Continental Europe anyway, war commemorations aside. State visits will still continue regardless, royals like Sophia of Spain, the Danes and Norwegian royals will still make private visits in the new reign,etc.

However, if Scotland votes for independence, that will be a huge blow. The family, especially the Queen and Charles, love Balmoral. If another referendum after that votes for a republican Scotland, it will affect the family, especially King Charles, a great deal.

It's not so much the population of Scotland, (there are only a few million in population), but the territory and Balmoral and less engagements all round, because of course, north of the border would be a republic. The break up of the U.K. as the United Kingdom would impact the BRF dreadfully, emotionally too. It's often forgotten that the Queen's half Scottish, so subsequently Charles is part Scot too.

Altogether, if Scotland holds, nothing much will happen, (and nothing will happen over the next couple of years anyway.) If Scotland becomes a republic in the future there may well be a lessening of funding for the monarch etc, but things like the Trooping, State visits, Ascot, Diplomatic Corps reception will remain, IMO.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

The EU, whatever its failings has been a huge force for good over the past seven decades and britians role in it was/is overall a positive one. Although I may well be wrong on the question of the economy, the fact that most of britians trade is with Europe, that they might be shut out of the common market as punishments for all this, (trade deals take a looong time to negotiate) and that Britain out of the EU is not as attractive a investment destination, combined with frankly incompetent political leadership, long term economic and social dislocation looks likely to me - it's gonna make the thatcher years look like a trip to Disney land.

Likewise, Scotland isn't that much of a problem compared to the possibility of renewed conflict in NI.

Charles has had enough crap to put up with in the course of his tenure as heir, I don't want him the King who might well have to preside over the breakup of Britain, he's long overdue a good turn. I was secretly hoping that he would be able to leave his mark by encouraging a better relationship with Europe and constitutional reform as his legacy - that probably won't happen now as it's probably going to be damage control for the next 10-15 years.

I could well be wrong but current events don't give me much cause for hope - and I sincerely hope on those grounds that I am wrong!

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

My own personal prediction is (hoping against hope here) that Charles will rise to the challenge of guiding the country in what's going to be a very difficult time, whatever his earlier failings - his influence, if deployed with tact and caution, could be a very healthy calming influence and a voice for sanity and reconciliation. Part of this might involve a reform of the more problematic elements of the royal household and greater clarification of constitutional powers and Royal finance.

 

[Curryong]

Charles will no doubt be upset by the developments. I agree that he would be in the remain camp. He, as monarch, will no doubt keep his Romanian holdings and is one of the few members of the BRF which does visit Europe reasonably often. However, the BRF as an entity has undoubtedly been Commonwealth-centric, if I can put it that way, since the days of transformation from Empire. I still think, as I put in a previous post, that it would be the possible loss of Scotland that would impact the family most, especially Charles, who adores the country.

I know these remarks below are off topic and I won't write about the EU thing again.

If I were still living in Britain I would have voted to remain, mainly because of opportunities for young people to live and work in Europe. However, i can see both sides in this debate, and in spite of the assertions of some on the EU thread, that organisation is no Shangrila.

I took a look on a website some time ago which showed a very interesting table. It showed that with the exception of Germany, France, Britain,and, to a lesser extent the Netherlands, the rest of the members either paid very little into EU coffers or nothing at all, and were heavily subsidised with EU money. That's an awful lot of tiny and/or bankrupt states being kept afloat by three, now two, powerhouses.

Charles would no doubt try to play a calming and reconciling central role in any turbulent times, and to a limited extent would do it well. However, from experience of my time living in the UK on and off since I emigrated many years ago, (I'm an ex Pom, anyway) I don't know that he would necessarily be listened to a great deal.

Charles is respected for his work ethic and the fact that he cares deeply about certain issues. However, he is often described as a waffler, he is sometimes seen as an eccentric, there is still the Camilla/Diana thing weighing down the saddlebags.

I think that any attempt by Charles as King to gain a more central role than that of a strictly constitutional monarch (as a sort of national advocate/adviser for instance) would be slapped down by the Government very quickly.

He could and probably will, slim down the BRF considerably, and that will certainly have an impact on financial matters concerning the royals.

Let's not forget though that Charles conducts his private existence as POW in a far more extravagant way than his mother does as Queen. He is cushioned by Duchy money which enables him to live the lifestyle of an Edwardian grandee, with a huge staff. He loves living in the grand manner (and he can afford to) and adores throwing grand parties. I'm not sure how much rationalising of Royal finances Charles would want to do as a monarch.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

What I described above was the best case scenario - I'm not normally that generous with Charles.

As for Charles and the commonwealth - that's interesting you've said that as I was always under the impression that Charles was not as in to the CWMTH as his mother and given his public statements and views on a number of matters, always came off to me as europhile - I could just well be projecting. It would be the height of stupidity if he was given all the CAP subsidies he gets for the duchy of Cornwall.

I do however know for a fact that a lot of CMWTH leaders don't have the same regard for Charles as they do for his mother and consider his knowledge of the organisation to be somewhat lacking. It's unlikely he will be head of the organisation when the time comes - it'll probably become a rotating headship.

The habit of living like and Edwardian grandee is a major drawback and the only real course of survival I can see is adopting a more low key approach. there's nothing wrong with extravagance once in a while when the Occassion calls for it, but all the time... I know that the RF are all wealthy and "U" I don't mind, but there need to be some tact about it especially in hard economic times.

The friendship and relations with the other European royals will remain, but it's possible that in the countries that are still in the EU that associations with the Windsors will be similar to how relations with German royals post WWII Was seen - awkward, tricky, and perceived as politically suspect.

 

[MARG]

Could you be a little more specific about what constitutes the behavior of an Edwardian grandee?

 

[Queen Camilla]

Could you be a little more specific about what constitutes the behavior of an Edwardian grandee?

Having a stable of racehorses.

Oh wait that is the Queen.