The Monarchy under Charles


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If Edward VIII had been rash enough to try to dissolve Parliament during the abdication crisis of 1936 the subsequent election would certainly have brought the powers of the monarchy into question.

However, barring some sort of terrible scandal involving the entire Cabinet including a recalcitrant PM, I can't see King Charles ever trying it.
 
I'm not expert and can't tell the future, but I also think tht after the passing of HM the monarchy will be a more shaky and may be abolished in the foreseen future. Just a hunch.
 
The title of the article is rather misleading, I must say.

I have no doubt though, that during Charles' reign, there will be more debate about the future of the monarchy.
 
I don't think so. But why the monarchy would be abolished? what the United Kingdom would have to gain from this?
 
Royal Family: Historian Dr Anna Whitelock predicts monarchy will be abolished by 2030 | Royal | News | Daily Express
Dr Anna Whitelock predicted the Queen's successors will be booted out of Buckingham Palace by 2030 because the public do not like the future royalty.

The academic's outlandish claim will shock the world and comes as Her Majesty prepares to mark her 90th birthday.

In a stinging attack on Princes Charles and William, Dr Whitelock said affection for the monarchy is reserved for the Queen herself, meaning her death will spark a constitutional crisis.

She predicted that support for the thousand-year old institution will plummet under King Charles, leading to Britain eventually becoming a republic.
It's not a shock that she says it. This is a person who sat on Sky News during the wedding in 2011 and said that the monarchy is going to be abolished right after the Queen's death. She repeated it during the Queen's Diamond Jubilee in 2012 on the same channel and said that the monarchy is a bad thing for the UK, and that it will be abolished right after the Queen's death because no one likes the other members. She said the same thing last year when the Queen became Britain's longest-reigning monarch. And she have criticized/moaned about the monarchy's expenses/costs for years, mostly on Sky News, but also on BBC News Channel.
The outlandish claims were today bound to anger many monarchists, who make up three quarters of the general public.
I'm not angry. This person is republican and has the right to say what she thinks, but most British historians/experts do not agree with her.
Dr Whitelock, a reader in early modern history at Royal Holloway university and director of The London Centre for Public History, claimed that important questions about the relevance of the monarchy in modern society have been constrained out of respect for the Queen's long reign.
Have they? Which world do she live in. Has she heard about the organization Republic? Has she read the (Guardian which she writes for), the Independent, the Mirror etc?
She said: “All of those questions about ‘What the hell do we want this kind of unelected family (for)? What does that represent in Britain today?’, all these profound questions have been held in check because of the Queen.”
All of those questions have already been raised by the republicans and several journalists, and by you on television at least 5 times.
She the predicted that within two decades, the British monarchy could be challenged in a way that it never has been before when the Queen is likely to be no longer on the throne.

She said: “I think there’ll be a discussion and a debate in a way that there hasn’t before.

“As the older generation who are generally more wedded to the monarchy die out, the question of the future of the monarchy will become even more pressing, and then potentially more critical voices will come to the fore.”

She added: “I would say by 2030 there will be definite louder clamours for the eradication of the monarchy. I can’t say that there won’t be a monarchy. I would definitely say that the monarchy - its purpose, what it’s about, will be questioned and challenged in a way that it hasn’t been before.

“I don’t think it’s out of the question that the monarchy would be potentially be on its last legs.”
I know that I've said this many times before on others threads, but I actually thinks the British Monarchy is the safest Monarchy in the world, along with the Japanese.

Republicanism in the UK remains among the lowest in the world, with figures rarely exceeding 20% in support of a British republic, some polls have it as low 13%, and consistent 70% support for the Monarchy. Some polls have the support for the monarchy as high as 82%, others at around 70 to 76%, another poll has the support for the monarchy from 66 to 70%.
To abolish the British monarchy will be very difficult.
1: Most polls must show a majority for a republic, this is very very unlikely.
2: Majority in the house of commons for a referendum, this is not going to happen.
3: Majority in the referendum for a republic, this is not going to happen.
4: Changing the country's name, changing the pound, remove the royal name from all state institutions. These are just some of the things that must be changed.
5: All of this is going to cost so much money that even many Republicans will start doubting it, and the vast majority of the population will never vote to replace a constitutional monarchy with a divisive politician or a celebrity etc.

The only thing that can destroy the British Monarchy in the coming years is some very serious scandals or an abdication and this is why:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ession-to-the-throne-5254-10.html#post1851254
But I don't even think that major scandals can destroy/weaken it by 2030.
Support for the monarchy during the last quarter of a century of the Queen’s reign peaked during the Diamond Jubilee year of 2012 with 80 per cent being in favour of Britain remaining a monarchy.

It dipped to 65 per cent at the time of the Prince of Wales’s wedding to the Duchess of Cornwall in 2005 and to 69 per cent in 1993 - the year after the Queen’s “annus horribilis”.

But throughout the remaining years support averaged at 73 per cent of those questioned being in favour of a monarchy, an analysis of Ipsos MORI research showed.

In 2012, 90 per cent of the British public were also said to be satisfied with the way the Queen was doing her job as monarch, while in the wake of Diana, Princess of Wales’s death, this fell to 66 per cent.
Much factual errors here. The Queen's satisfaction numbers was at 74% in February 1996, and at 72% in December 1997. They fell to 66% in March 1998 and was back at 73% in August 1998. They was at 71% in 2000, 82% in 2002, 85% in 2006 and 90% two times in 2012.
Dr Whitelock said the Queen had commanded respect for the duty she has shown during her reign so far.

She said: “Whether you are a monarchist or not, and even fervent republicans, I think, no one is saying whilst the Queen is alive the monarchy should be abolished.
There are several republicans including the organization Republic who says that the monarchy should be abolished today.
“Everybody, given her constancy and given her selflessness, thinks she’s a pretty amazing woman, regardless of where you stand on the monarchy debate.
And yet she is criticized/humiliated for the most ridiculous things, including: When she at the age of 86 didn't go on walkabouts, when the Sun published nazi pictures of her, the EU thing etc.
“After that, I think it’s going to be a free-for-all.”
After that we would have the most remarkable event in British and world history: The death and the funeral of the Queen of the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, 12 other Countries and head of the Commonwealth. This will be be the first royal state funeral since 1952. And as EIIR (a former member here) wrote in 2012:
When it comes to Charles acceding the throne I feel people miss the point. There is likely to be a huge outpouring of national grief when The Queen passes away. It's important not to underestimate how powerful that will be. Hundreds of thousands of people queued for days in order to file past the Queen Mother's coffin. The level of mourning for the Queen is likely to be a great deal deeper - the Queen is not only a much loved head of state, she's an international icon.

That national grief will, naturally, lead to a great deal of sympathy flowing to the RF generally, and Charles as the next in line.

There will also be a certain fascination in having a new monarch - the vast majority of Britons have only ever known one monarch. The process of new stamps, notes, coins, not to mention a coronation to look forward to. There's also the fact that Charles' reign is likely to be relatively short and William and Catherine will be closer to the throne while also having their own children who will, no doubt, fascinate us all in much the same way their parents have.

This is all a rather long winded way of saying I really don't believe that there will be any significant change to the British monarchy when Charles takes over. I think Charles will be a surprisingly popular King; he'll be at the 'sweet old man' age rather then in middle aged no mans land. It's an unfortunate fact of life nowadays; we see the young as interesting and cool, and the elderly as sweet and wise. It's the in between stage where people just aren't that interested.
This was written by a historian/expert last year and I agree with him. He predicted this 20 years from now:

Charles and Camilla - (if living) will be the respected old monarch and consort.
William and Kate - Will be popular (more than Charles and Camilla), but perhaps not as interesting as their yong and very popular children.
Dr Whitelock admitted the future prospects of “The Firm” were difficult to predict, saying: “At the moment there is pretty great support for the Queen and the monarchy, but the problem is that is about the Queen and not about the monarchy.”
That's wrong. The British constitutional monarchy is more popular than politicians in itself, regardless of the members of the royal family. And William/Kate was very popular with the people/press in 2011, 2012 and 2013. They are still pretty popular and their popularity is likely to rise when they take on more duties and becomes full-time working royals. And Harry has been very popular in 2014/2015.
Buckingham Palace declined to comment.
What the heck should they say.
 
Some folks think like this, because it's hard for some to picture the monarchy going on after Elizabeth II. Her reign has gone on for so long, she's the only person people are used to leading the grand old institution.
 
:previous: I think you have really nailed the crux of the matter. Queen Elizabeth is the monarchy of the UK and Commonwealth. There has been no change in most of our lifetimes save those of she and Philip's generation.

They remember King Edward with disdain and King George with genuine fondness and respect. They remember the young princess and they remember her Coronation and have lived their entire lives alongside her. She isn't just their Queen or Queen Elizabeth II, but rather "The Queen".

Her death (long may she live) and the Succession of Charles will be a nexus of almost unimaginable momentousness and impossible to predict the outcome, although IMO it seems a given that the Monarchy will not fall.
 
Some folks think like this, because it's hard for some to picture the monarchy going on after Elizabeth II. Her reign has gone on for so long, she's the only person people are used to leading the grand old institution.

There is always a sense of anticipation and uncertainty in a monarchy when a long reign draws to a close. The same happened in Norway in 1991 when the late King Olav V passed away, and in Sweden in 1972 a majority of the elected politicians wanted to abolish the monarchy altogether, at the passing of the old King. This however, is a natural sentiment expressed in most countries by a majority of people at times of substantial change; it's inherently something we do not enjoy. The factors that we always miss however, is that the sadness and affection felt at the loss of an appreciated monarch, is always partly transferred to the heir, whom we usually realize is more than our new sovereign, but who is also a grieving child who has just lost a parent. That tends to give the new monarch a softer transitition into the new role, and people feeling more sympathy and affection.

We often judge before a fact comes to be, based on the past of a person or past events, but when things actually happen, we tend to be far less critical and more embracing than we might have expected beforehand.

When it comes to predictions given and judgments passed, I always tend to find them a lot more interesting, pertinent and unbiased when they come from people who manage to show slightly more distance to the subject matter than someone who has been a republican voice of whinge and discontent for decades. I think we might all do well to remember where such opinions come from, and that the sourness with which it is given, can usually be traced to being nowhere nearer a republic in the UK (or UR, should she get her way) than when she started her crusade.

Facts are firmly behind the monarchy. The Royal Family as a whole enjoys very favourable levels of support and there is no evidence to support a thesis that after the demise of the Queen, the throne will be abolished. Look to Australia for further evidence, the monarchy has seen a steady rise in its support for the past 10 years following the failed referendum to abolish the institution altogether, with many surveys ascribing much of the rise to the popularity of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, and Prince Harry, the future generations.

Lastly, with the predictions that 'as old people die, support will drop', this lady makes the most common mistake of them all, forgetting the laws of nature. More often than not, young people tend to grow older as well, and when they do, they're often more in favour of preserving the things worth preserving, the common things that link our past to our tomorrow.

That is what the monarchy does, and that is the affection that will one day meet the Prince of Wales in his new role as King. As a child of his highly respected mother, and a King of realms across the globe.
 
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Dr Anna Whitelock is an early modern history don at London University. I don't know about her early modern history – but she's certainly not much good at modern history.

She's just said that, by 2030, the monarchy could be on its last legs; that the popularity of the monarchy is linked to the Queen, not the institution itself.

Zero out of ten, Dr Whitelock. You have just got what we used to call a Douglas – a Douglas Hurd/third – for your understanding of the relationship between the monarchy and the British people.

There are perfectly good arguments for being a republican – and, if you were starting a new country now, who would set up a hereditary ruling system? It hasn't worked too well with the Assad clan in Syria, has it?

But the monarchy has worked for 1,000 years in this country. We have grown not just used to it, but are deeply attached to it. The handover from an extremely popular Queen to a slightly less popular son – and, in turn, a very popular grandson – is not going to affect that attachment.

The monarchy has staggeringly high levels of approval: 80 per cent during the Diamond Jubilee Year of 2012. Even at the institution's least popular level in recent years - in 2005, at Prince Charles's wedding - approval ratings dipped to 65 per cent.

65 per cent! That's an approval rating David Cameron – or Tony Blair or Margaret Thatcher – could only dream of.
Read more: There's nothing wrong with wanting to abolish the monarchy, just don't expect anyone to agree with you
 
It's going to take some adjustment and getting used to, but I think the future of the monarchy will do just fine under Charles and later William. They know how important it is to keep this grand old institution together and going.

There is some nervous people out there on how everything carry on without the constant presence of Elizabeth.
 
This will never happen and it goes against the hereditary principle

Charles is a serious, decent and admirable man. But he should renounce the throne in advance

On 21 April Queen Elizabeth II marks her 90th birthday, the first of our reigning monarchs ever to do so, and it will be a very happy occasion, just as her Diamond Jubilee was in 2012.

Five years ago there had been a more sombre milestone for the queen’s eldest son, Charles, Prince of Wales. He passed the mark of 59 years spent as heir to the throne set by his great-great-grandfather, Victoria’s eldest son, the Prince of Wales who became King Edward VII in 1901.
Read more: To save the British monarchy, skip the Prince of Wales » The Spectator
 
Why skip the heir that's most prepared? I think people really need to get over this anxiety on Charles taking over the monarchy. The man won't destroy it.
 
As I wrote on Twitter "Impossible to take an article written by someone who thinks UK is ruled by The House of Hannover seriously"


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Historically, there was nervousness in Queen Victoria's twilight years about what sort of a King Edward would make. He settled very smoothly into the role.

However, I think some are foreseeing that, in a much less deferential age, Ministers of the Crown may tell Charles politely to cease interfering in any issue he feels strongly about. I know the sovereign has the right to (famously) be consulted, to encourage and to warn. However, there is a danger of a future clash with the Government if Charles feels strongly enough about a particular piece of legislation.

That is my one reservation about Charles (apart from lingering feelings about his first marriage.) He is a well-prepared and committed man and a hardworking one. Apart from this one thing, he will make a splendid King IMO.

As far as the reference to the House of Hanover goes, I think the writer was being facetious not ignorant.
 
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Well, if not for WWI it would be the House of Hanover. Like all the PR, it was another step to cover tracks. We, now that I think of it, it was the House of Saxe Coburg and Gotha.
 
Well, if not for WWI it would be the House of Hanover. Like all the PR, it was another step to cover tracks. We, now that I think of it, it was the House of Saxe Coburg and Gotha.

Queen Victoria was the last ruling monarch of the House of Hanover. When she married her Prince Albert, it was then it became the House of Saxe Coburg and Gotha.

So, in a way, it is correct to say that the House of Windsor stems from the House of Hanover from the matriarchal line from Victoria. I'm sure if I goofed up here somewhere, I'll be nicely corrected. ;)

Actually, I don't really see much of a big uproar about things when Charles ascends the throne. He is more than ready to be King and will step into the role with ease. There will be more kerfluffle over Wills, Kate and Harry and how they are going to up their roles.
 
It didn't actually switch to Saxe Coburg & Gotha until Edward VII came to throne. Victoria was a Hanover whole reign.


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Well, if not for WWI it would be the House of Hanover. Like all the PR, it was another step to cover tracks. We, now that I think of it, it was the House of Saxe Coburg and Gotha.

But that's only because that was Albert's House, and it changed because Victoria - the female Monarch - married him. I think the Hanover argument has wings and I'd give it a fly for a bit of fun to poke the stick at coverture again, especially since Elizabeth kept the (anglicised) name of her father's House when she'd married a Mountbatten, or should I say Battenberg.
 
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But that's only because that was Albert's House, and it changed because Victoria - the female Monarch - married him. I think the Hanover argument has wings and I'd give it a fly for a bit of fun to poke the stick at coverture again, especially since Elizabeth kept the (anglicised) name of her father's House when she'd married a Mountbatten, or should I say Battenberg.


Victoria belonged to the House of Hanover - her father's house.

Edward VII belonged to the house of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, his father's house.

The Queen belongs to the House of Windsor, her father's House, and a cadet branch of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. The Queen's male-line, paternal cousins and their male-line descendants also belong to this House, but the Queen's descendants do not.

The Duke of Edinburgh belongs to the House of Glücksburg, his father's House, which is a cadet branch of the House of Oldenburg.

The male-line descendants of the Queen and DoE belong to the House of Windsor (or Mountbatten-Windsor), as a cadet branch of the House of Glücksburg.
 
I'd add too that the DoE isn't a Battenberg, nor was he ever.

He was born a Glücksburg. His mother was born a Battenberg, and her father and siblings became Mountbattens during the war (she never did, as she married before the name change). When the DoE gave up his Greek titles he took his maternal family's British sounding name because he needed a surname and didn't have one.
 
I know people are worried about the controversy that hangs around Charles's neck, but he will be a more engaged King and I think people will get used to it over time.

The very exciting part is that the world will be getting a brand new Prince and Princess of Wales too. They will help the Charles and the new Princess Consort. Everything will work out and things will not fall apart after Elizabeth II.
 
The very exciting part is that the world will be getting a brand new Prince and Princess of Wales too. They will help the Charles and the new Princess Consort. Everything will work out and things will not fall apart after Elizabeth II.

It isn't a 100% given that when Charles becomes King that Will and Kate will become the Prince and Princess of Wales. That will be at Charles' discretion once he is King. Although I can't see any reason why he wouldn't, there's always the odd chance that Charles may not do this.
 
It isn't a 100% given that when Charles becomes King that Will and Kate will become the Prince and Princess of Wales. That will be at Charles' discretion once he is King. Although I can't see any reason why he wouldn't, there's always the odd chance that Charles may not do this.

Oh I have no doubt that Charles will invest William as the next Prince of Wales once he's King and Catherine will then go on to be the next Princess of Wales. William and Catherine are getting ready for these roles as we speak.
 
Victoria belonged to the House of Hanover - her father's house.

Edward VII belonged to the house of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, his father's house.

The Queen belongs to the House of Windsor, her father's House, and a cadet branch of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. The Queen's male-line, paternal cousins and their male-line descendants also belong to this House, but the Queen's descendants do not.

The Duke of Edinburgh belongs to the House of Glücksburg, his father's House, which is a cadet branch of the House of Oldenburg.

The male-line descendants of the Queen and DoE belong to the House of Windsor (or Mountbatten-Windsor), as a cadet branch of the House of Glücksburg.

On the basis that this archaic notion of a person belonging to their father's House prevails, why, then, are the Queen's descendants members of the House of Windsor and not the house of Glucksburg, or Mountbatten?

BTW thanks for pointing out that Philip was never a Battenberg. I wasn't aware of that.
 
Here is the verbatim wording of the letters patent issued by HM, The Queen in regards to the name of the House and the name Mountbatten Windsor.

"My Lords
Whereas on the 9th day of April 1952, I did declare in Council My Will and Pleasure that I and My children shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that My descendants, other than female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name of Windsor:
And whereas I have given further consideration to the position of those of My descendants who will enjoy neither the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness, nor the titluar dignity of Prince and for whom therefore a surname will be necessary:
And whereas I have concluded that the Declaration made by Me on the 9th day of April 1952, should be varied in its application to such persons:
Now therefore I declare My Will and Pleasure that, while I and My Children shall continue to be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, My descendants other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess and female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Mountbatten-Windsor."
 
Oh I have no doubt that Charles will invest William as the next Prince of Wales once he's King and Catherine will then go on to be the next Princess of Wales. William and Catherine are getting ready for these roles as we speak.

William and Catherine are getting ready for the role of heir apparent and consort. That does not necessarily mean that they'll be Prince and Princess of Wales. For all we know the Welsh could ask that the title not be recreated for William - after all, the title is really a symbol of the English conquest of Wales and the decimation of the Welsh royalty.
 
Here is the verbatim wording of the letters patent issued by HM, The Queen in regards to the name of the House and the name Mountbatten Windsor.

"My Lords
Whereas on the 9th day of April 1952, I did declare in Council My Will and Pleasure that I and My children shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that My descendants, other than female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name of Windsor:
And whereas I have given further consideration to the position of those of My descendants who will enjoy neither the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness, nor the titluar dignity of Prince and for whom therefore a surname will be necessary:
And whereas I have concluded that the Declaration made by Me on the 9th day of April 1952, should be varied in its application to such persons:
Now therefore I declare My Will and Pleasure that, while I and My Children shall continue to be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, My descendants other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess and female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Mountbatten-Windsor."

Yes, that is the reason. It required a decision to be made by Elizabeth to displace the tradition, and Letters Patent to put her desire into effect because it was not the norm. I have no doubt that Philip was very cheesed off about this, leading to his famous "I am nothing but a bloody amoeba" tantrum.

It is poorly worded though, and ambiguous. The literal meaning of the Letters Patent is that only those of her descendants who do not have the Royal style and title shall be known as Mountbatten-Windsor and that her children are of the Windsor family. But both Anne and Andrew signed their marriage register with the name Mountbatten-Windsor, probably to avoid a tantrum from their father. Their mother might have been the Monarch of the country and all those other realms, but they bowed to the feelings of their father rather than respecting their Queen's wishes, but I blame their mother because she chose to act as a wife rather than a Queen when it came to her husband. The variation to the 9th April LP only applied to descendants who do not have the Royal style & title. HM only did it to appease Philip. I've always felt she was weak-willed over that issue. If she wasn't going to stick to her guns, she should never have made the original declaration.
 
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