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  #1841  
Old 08-23-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
[....] Clarence House believes it is merely convention, and not legal statute, that the wife of the king be automatically queen.
Interestingly enough the Dutch Court used exact the same words "a convention, a social custom and not legal statute" that Máxima can be called Queen (despite a different legal arrangement).

I tend to agree with Clarence House. After all no one claims Camilla is NOT the Princess of Wales but in daily practice the convention is not followed and Camilla is addressed with another title. That scenario can be repeated when Charles is King. Of course I hope Camilla will be Queen. Often in such shock events things get an own dynamique.
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  #1842  
Old 08-23-2014, 05:04 PM
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Something tells me that Camilla care about her future title but she's not sweating it. She married the man she love and she's there to support him and the royal family.
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  #1843  
Old 08-23-2014, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Interestingly enough the Dutch Court used exact the same words "a convention, a social custom and not legal statute" that Máxima can be called Queen (despite a different legal arrangement).

I tend to agree with Clarence House. After all no one claims Camilla is NOT the Princess of Wales but in daily practice the convention is not followed and Camilla is addressed with another title. That scenario can be repeated when Charles is King. Of course I hope Camilla will be Queen. Often in such shock events things get an own dynamique.
Well thats a good point, just a when Diana died and the media went into overdrive about the flag I wonder if when the Queen dies the media will or will not remember that it was said Camilla would not be called Queen? To me if the fact is 'forgotten' by the media in the immediate aftermath of the Queen's passing and Camilla is referred to as Queen once or twice than the chances are she will be more widely known as Queen for Charles' reign.

IMO its down to how the media and the public react after the Queen's death as to how Camilla is referred in future
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  #1844  
Old 08-23-2014, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I sincerely hope and pray that King Charles iii refers to 'my wife, the Queen', long before his son does !
Correct me if I am wrong, but he does not currently refer to her as the Duchess? I vaguely remember he (and Wills for that matter) refer to "my wife" when speaking ad hoc to people in crowds. As in "my wife is over there," or "I will give this to my wife."
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  #1845  
Old 08-23-2014, 08:44 PM
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I find this issue extremely interesting and potentially very entertaining, and I hope I'm around to witness what happens when the time comes.

I've been muddling it thought in my head and have come up with a solution, though there may be fatal flaws I cannot presently see.

Regardless of the statement of intention, as things stand the moment HM QEII dies Charles will become King and his wife will become Queen Consort. Unlike the current situation, there will be no other available title/s available for her to use in lieu. She could elect to break with tradition and not use her husband's style and title, but as things currently stand the only options available for her would be Ms Camilla Shand or Ms Camilla Mountbatten-Windsor. I doubt she's that much of a trendsetter though. Maybe she could go with Mrs Charles Mountbatten-Windsor though I'm not sure how the generic "Mrs" would fare in a competition with "HM". But whatever styles/titles are available to her, "HRH The Princess Consort" will not be amongst them because it is a title that does not exist and it would need to be specifically created.

It will need to be created by her husband when the time comes, which would be rather unseemly bearing in mind that it would involve demoting his wife during a time of national mourning. Perhaps it could be done by the current Queen, though I think it would mean making Camilla a Princess in her own right otherwise I don't think it would be a title she could elect to continue to use after her husband becomes King. Though I cannot imagine HM making Camilla a Princess in her own right, I do think that course would solve the problem of it being addressed immediately following upon Elizabeth's death, and would provide Camilla with an option that is not currently available. (It would also only attach to Camilla, thus not catching future Queens Consort.) A statement could be issued immediately Charles becomes king stating that she will be known as The Princess Consort rather than Queen Consort.

Would the other Realms still have to co-operate? Unless they wanted to go against the wishes of QEII and Charles and Camilla, they might be able to just go with the flow and call her The Princess Consort without having to pass legislation. I'm not sure about that though.
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  #1846  
Old 08-25-2014, 12:13 AM
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Redesign the POW website. Remove all Q&As.

After a while most people will forgot/would not care except the Di hard fanatics. Most people probably never visit the POW website. It is a few people who want to control the BRF especially Charles.

JMO, sometimes I think the people working at royal.gov are anti-Charles & Camilla and maybe the same people work on both sites.
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  #1847  
Old 08-25-2014, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Redesign the POW website. Remove all Q&As.

After a while most people will forgot/would not care except the Di hard fanatics. Most people probably never visit the POW website. It is a few people who want to control the BRF especially Charles.

JMO, sometimes I think the people working at royal.gov are anti-Charles & Camilla and maybe the same people work on both sites.
LOL, I don't think so.

We just have to wait and see what will happen.
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  #1848  
Old 08-25-2014, 03:45 AM
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Coronation Regalia

I have been wondering for a while now what crown Camilla, and eventually Catherine will wear at their respective coronations.
Assuming that Camilla becomes the Queen Consort when HM dies, it seems ridiculous that in this day and age she will have a new consort crown created for her, especially when there are several sitting in the Tower of London. I would think the best fit would be the crown of HM the Queen Mother as it is much more 'english' in it's design than the crowns of Queen Mary and Queen Alexandra.
But it seems that most Queens keep their crown, minus the ermine and arches, if their husband predeceases them. So if Charles died before Camilla, what crown would Catherine wear at her and William's coronation?
What does anyone else think about what crowns Camilla and Kate will use?
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  #1849  
Old 08-25-2014, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Unlike the current situation, there will be no other available title/s available for her to use in lieu. She could elect to break with tradition and not use her husband's style and title, but as things currently stand the only options available for her would be Ms Camilla Shand or Ms Camilla Mountbatten-Windsor. I doubt she's that much of a trendsetter though.
King Charles can simply issue a Letters Patent:

CHARLES THE THIRD by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of His other Realms and Territories KING, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith;

To all to whom these Presents shall come, GREETING;

WHEREAS in testimony of the great love which We bear towards Our most dearly beloved Wife and ever faithful Counsellor, the most honourable lady CAMILLA ROSEMARY MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR, We are desirous of conferring upon her a style and dignity appropriate to her rank and station;

NOW KNOW YE that We, of Our especial grace certain, knowledge and mere notion do by these Presents give and grant unto the most honourable lady Camilla Rosemary Mountbatten-Windsor the Style and Titular Dignity of a Princess of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to have and at all times to hold and enjoy the said style and titular Dignity in addition to any other titles of honour shall to her belong or at any time hereafter may belong;

And We do further of Our Royal favor and affection grant unto her, the said most honourable lady, that by the said title of Princess she shall have and enjoy the Rank Place Pre-eminence and Precedence of a Consort to the King which we have already conferred upon Her In Witness & Witness;

Our Will and Pleasure further is that Our Earl Marshal of England or his Deputy for the time being do cause Our Letters or the enrol thereof to be recorded in Our College of Arms to the end that Our Officers of Arms and all all others may take due notice thereof;

In Witness whereof We have caused Our Letters to be made Patent;

Witness Ourself at Westminster the [....] day of [....] in the first year of Our Reign.



Then it will be publicized in the London Gazette:

The King has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the Realm bearing date [....], to give and grant unto the most honourable lady Camilla Rosemary Mountbatten-Windsor the style and titular dignity of a Princess of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The King has been pleased to declare his will and pleasure that the honourable lady Camilla Rosemary Mountbatten-Windsor shall henceforth be known as Her Royal Highness The Princess Camilla, The Princess-Consort.



But of course, as a traditionalist, I simply hope Camilla will just become and be known as Her Majesty The Queen.
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  #1850  
Old 08-25-2014, 05:14 AM
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A neat solution at first glance, but would that really be conferring upon her a style and dignity appropriate to her rank and station? By that stage she would be Queen Consort, so making her a Princess of the UK would constitute a demotion, implying that her actual rank and station is beneath that of her husband's. Hence my suggestion it be done during Elizabeth's reign.

So much easier for her to just become HM The Queen Consort.
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  #1851  
Old 08-25-2014, 06:08 AM
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My preference is that Camilla "just" becomes Queen indeed.

Your assumption is that this (the creation of Camilla a Princess in her own right, making her HRH The Princess Camilla) is better done under the current Reign because then there is no "demotion" but just a wish that the consort "will be known as" by a title which is her own.
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  #1852  
Old 08-25-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
My preference is that Camilla "just" becomes Queen indeed.

Your assumption is that this (the creation of Camilla a Princess in her own right, making her HRH The Princess Camilla) is better done under the current Reign because then there is no "demotion" but just a wish that the consort "will be known as" by a title which is her own.
Well, yes. I think. I'm not entirely sure I understand your post though. I was just trying to work out a way Camilla could elect to be known as HRH The Princess Consort at a time she would also be entitled to be known as HM The Queen Consort, in the same way she now elects to be known as The Duchess of Cornwall when she is also The Princess of Wales.
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  #1853  
Old 08-25-2014, 07:29 AM
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I think Queen Camilla is likely to be Crowned using the late Queen Mothers crown, and IF she becomes merely Princess Consort she will wear the circlet from that crown to the Abbey.I think Catherine will also use the same crown when she is crowned.
If Queen Camilla is still alive at that time she may well wear the circlet from Queen Mary's crown [which is a wonderful, elegant thing]
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  #1854  
Old 08-25-2014, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I think Queen Camilla is likely to be Crowned using the late Queen Mothers crown, and IF she becomes merely Princess Consort she will wear the circlet from that crown to the Abbey.I think Catherine will also use the same crown when she is crowned.
If Queen Camilla is still alive at that time she may well wear the circlet from Queen Mary's crown [which is a wonderful, elegant thing]
Its entirely possible that regardless of whatever title or style Camilla uses, she may not actually be crowned alongside Charles in Westminster Abbey. She will, however, need a crown for state occasions and I think the Queen Mother's crown (and circlet) would work wonderfully. Up until now, its usually been the rule that each Queen Consort had her crown made for her and perhaps with an eye to economic temperatures, a new tradition of using the Queen Mother's crown will become a tradition.
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  #1855  
Old 08-25-2014, 08:35 AM
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I'm more interested in whether the senior royals will wear their coronation robes and other regalia at Charles's future Coronation? That would be one beautiful sight if they did.
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  #1856  
Old 08-25-2014, 11:03 AM
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I just hope that once in my life-time I get to see a full and proper coronation ceremony with all the regalia, robes, pomp and ceremony that was seen back in 1953 - after that they can tone it down or simplify things all they like!
If Camilla is crowned queen consort, then I suspect the Queen Mother's crown etc will be worn rather than a new set created. If she is not crowned and becomes princess consort, I think she would have the robes and white dress as usual, but with a large diadem such as the one the Queen wears to and from parliament for the state opening.
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  #1857  
Old 08-25-2014, 11:39 AM
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I hope no one bends to the "princess consort" business. She will be the wife of the King, which "office" will have nothing to do with anyone Charles was married to in the past.
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  #1858  
Old 08-25-2014, 11:57 AM
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The only reason the Princess Consort title was dreamed up was because opinion polls in the media started asking the public if they would mind Charles and Camilla marrying, for a while more people said no than yes then the media started asking people if they minded the couple marrying if Camilla didn't get the title Queen. This got more people saying they would not mind them marrying.
The whole idea of Camilla not being Queen has come from the media and sets a dangerous precedent - just as now they give ask people's opinion on William becoming King straight after the Queen died rather than Charles. IMO it was dangerous for Charles' staff to give way in such a way - they should simply have said they wouldn't comment on what titles Camilla might have when Charles becomes King (ironically they won't comment on anything else about Charles becoming King saying its not appropriate to do so while the Queen is alive) - bet they wish they'd stuck to that line now!
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  #1859  
Old 08-25-2014, 04:33 PM
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I'll bet they had as well, tommy100. Such a kerfuffle...
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  #1860  
Old 08-26-2014, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
If Camilla is crowned queen consort, then I suspect the Queen Mother's crown etc will be worn rather than a new set created. If she is not crowned and becomes princess consort, I think she would have the robes and white dress as usual, but with a large diadem such as the one the Queen wears to and from parliament for the state opening.
She doesn't have to be crowned. She will automatically become Queen Consort when Charles takes the throne.
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