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  #1421  
Old 02-16-2014, 08:40 AM
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Camilla will be Queen if she outlives the Queen.

I don't think there will be a problem. The Diana fanatics will be dead or retired from trashing Camilla.

Great new: Richard Kay has left the Daily Mail.
(One down.)
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  #1422  
Old 02-16-2014, 08:42 AM
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I think at the time of the Queen's passing the average person will be too busy mourning the loss of Queen Elizabeth II to bother about if Camilla is styled Queen Consort, Princess Consort, "she who puts up with Charlie's temper tantrums" or anything else.

It's only those that get overly preoccupied with titles etc that are worried, especially those that like to believe Camilla is replacing a certain deceased person I shall not name.

To the average person (not a royal watcher etc) since she is married to the King she will be Queen and whatever official title she has won't come into it.

Personally having thought about it, Camilla should be Queen Consort since that is what she will be. The fact that it was mentioned that she wanted the title Princess Consort to appease certain sections of the establishment and populace is neither here nor there.

And to give her any other "lesser" title is practically saying that not only isn't she worthy but she's not up to the job, which is utter BS as she has proved that she is more than capable.
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  #1423  
Old 02-16-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I truly want Camilla to be Queen but I've read that she doesn't want to be named as Queen Consort. If that is true then I hope she is persuaded to change her mind. Otherwise, that reason will be denounced as just an excuse and the haters will just say she is not good enough.

I know there will be dissenters but better to face them down and stand as Queen Consort beside your King. I think the majority will support her.
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  #1424  
Old 02-16-2014, 11:57 AM
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.. havn't read any new argument for at least 60 pages ... the discussion goes round after round after round ... oh well..
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  #1425  
Old 02-16-2014, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
.. havn't read any new argument for at least 60 pages ... the discussion goes round after round after round ... oh well..
The arguments will remain the same for some time and will only intensify once things really kick in gear. I know some think its not going to be a big deal when the time arrives but I think differently. Its a situation I don't think those involved want to deal with.
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  #1426  
Old 02-16-2014, 12:52 PM
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I think this recently written article sums up the entire situation very well.

Queen Camilla - future Queen Consort of the United Kingdom | Royal Insight

(And what a lovely picture of The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall they used).
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  #1427  
Old 02-16-2014, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I've just arrived home from a day trip to a very hot Brisbane, and therefore it is possible that my brain has been addled by the heat, but right now I am of the view that the tradition that wives take their husband's styles and titles is just that: a tradition. A tradition is not law, and traditions can change. Nowhere is it stated in UK legislation that a wife must do that, and since the monarch is the fount of all honours it is my belief that once he becomes king Charles can issue Letters Patent declaring that henceforth Camilla shall be known as HRH The Princess Consort.

I find what you've said here interesting and thought provoking.

Of course, as we should all know when Jane Doe marries John Smith she can go a number of ways when it comes to her name and title. She can be Ms. or Mrs., and she can be Doe, Smith, Doe-Smith, or even Smith-Doe. That said, I don't think making the decision to be Mrs. Smith prevents her from also being Ms. Doe - consider Zara, who uses both Tindall and Phillips depending on the situation. Jane Doe could chose to take her husband's name legally, but sometimes use her maiden, or vis versa.

When it comes to women who marry into royalty, I'm not entirely sure if they have the same freedom that Jane Doe has when it comes to deciding what name to use, at least not when they marry as high up as Camilla has. The wives of the Kents and Gloucesters maybe, but not the wives of the Queen's children.

Even assuming that Camilla could have remained Mrs. Shand while married to Charles, it doesn't prevent her from also being Duchess of Cornwall or Princess of Wales. Likewise, in the future, if Charles decided to issue LPs to create Camilla a Princess of the United Kingdom in her own right, similar to the DoE or Prince Albert, then I support that. I don't see why there should be any problem with the wife of the monarch being a Princess of the realm when her male counterpart certainly would. And if the decision is made to have Camilla created a Princess and referred to as such in the CC, I don't think those of us who support her should make too much of a fuss about it. I would prefer to see her use her highest title, in keeping with tradition and in paying respect to the role she's fulfilled as Charles' wife - but if she would rather not be known as the Queen then I respect that.

That said, though, I don't believe that legislation should be passed to strip Camilla of the title of Queen. For a few reasons, actually:
1. If Parliament decides to issue legislature changing the title they're going against a 1,000 year tradition. If they do it for all future wives of a monarch on the grounds of "equality" then they're missing the point (as I discussed earlier in this thread, I believe). If they do it just for Camilla then they're basically going "we can't move on from Diana and nothing Camilla has done can redeem the fact that she had an affair with the man who is now king." Either way, they're effectively creating morganatic marriage in Britain at a time when other houses are abolishing it.
2. There is a very real question of what Camilla's title will be in the other realms, and which ones will have to issue legislature as well - which can very easily be seen as pointless legislature that can push republican causes. While I have no problem with realms choosing to be republics, I think it's kind of stupid of the monarchy to push the realms away over something like Camilla's title.
3. If legislature is passed taking away Camilla's title as Queen Consort - her right to use her husband's title - then we're basically saying that Camilla doesn't have the same freedom as other women. If Jane Doe, upon her marriage, can chose from a number of titles and names to use in personal, professional, and legal areas, then so should her royal equivalent. Camilla has the right of any woman to chose between using her own maiden name or titles and using the names and titles she gains through her marriage, and Parliament has no need to intervene in that.

In short; if LPs are issued creating Camilla a Princess of the United Kingdom in her own right, and that's how she choses to be known then she should have that right. But Parliament shouldn't also strip her of the title Queen Consort.
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  #1428  
Old 02-16-2014, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I think they must be dreadding the moment when this problem arise, which they know is getting closer to happening than ever before.
Why? Isn't Elizabeth well.?
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  #1429  
Old 02-16-2014, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tamta View Post
Why? Isn't Elizabeth well.?

Well, HM is nearing 90. Even if she was in the best of health for her age, she's not exactly in her prime and it's been clear for awhile now that it's only a matter of time before she passes.
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  #1430  
Old 02-16-2014, 11:28 PM
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[QUOTE=Victorian-Dandy;1641546]I think at the time of the Queen's passing the average person will be too busy mourning the loss of Queen Elizabeth II to bother about if Camilla is styled Queen Consort, Princess Consort, "she who puts up with Charlie's temper tantrums" or anything else.

It's only those that get overly preoccupied with titles etc that are worried, especially those that like to believe Camilla is replacing a certain deceased person I shall not name.

To the average person (not a royal watcher etc) since she is married to the King she will be Queen and whatever official title she has won't come into it.

Personally having thought about it, Camilla should be Queen Consort since that is what she will be. The fact that it was mentioned that she wanted the title Princess Consort to appease certain sections of the establishment and populace is neither here nor there.

And to give her any other "lesser" title is practically saying that not only isn't she worthy but she's not up to the job, which is utter BS as she has proved that she is more than capable.[/Q

this sums up the entire argument really!
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  #1431  
Old 02-16-2014, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Victorian-Dandy View Post
To the average person (not a royal watcher etc) since she is married to the King she will be Queen and whatever official title she has won't come into it.
I think that that the contrary is the case. I think the average person who is not a royal watcher will accept whatever The Powers That Be tell them. Camilla is the Princess of Wales, but people accepted that she is to be known as Duchess of Cornwall and I suspect that a lot of people who are not royal watchers do not even know she is in fact also Princess of Wales.

Most people don't remember a time when we had a Queen Consort. We are programmed to accept that the current monarch's spouse is not even Prince Consort, but merely Duke of Edinburgh. I think most people would be more willing to accept Camilla being known as something other than Queen Consort than most royal watchers would imagine.
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  #1432  
Old 02-17-2014, 12:23 AM
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I agree. I don't think people, non-royal watchers that is, are going to be offended if Camilla takes a lesser title. I also don't think they're going to be bothered if she becomes Queen and uses that title.

I do think non-royal watchers are going to be bothered by parliament spending its time passing legislature stripping Camilla of the title of Queen, especially if it has to happen in the other realms as well. At least those who notice it at all, and i think such legislature would be more grounds for republican dissent than Camilla being Queen would.
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  #1433  
Old 02-17-2014, 01:57 AM
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.. so and this is all, of what 'the monarchy under Charles has to expect'? Discussions about Camillas Titels?
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  #1434  
Old 02-17-2014, 02:03 AM
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I imagine there is little cost involved in issuing Letters Patent. The terms could be settled before the relevant time with the press informed and asked to refer to Camilla as Princess Consort from the moment Charles becomes King, and the declaration made quickly and quietly as soon as practicable. There will be no need to worry about offending anyone because the only person who could be offended will have consented and be party to the request, and no costly legislation and delay as the realms consider their position. A simple statement could be issued confirming that is to being done to put into effect that which was intended from the time of their marriage. The UK and other realms will be pre-occupied with mourning the loss of Her Majesty and the beginning of the first new reign in over 60 years and it will slip through with barely a ripple, I think.

So there you are! Problem solved. No need to trouble the Law Lords and other great legal minds of the UK any further.
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  #1435  
Old 02-17-2014, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
.. so and this is all, of what 'the monarchy under Charles has to expect'? Discussions about Camillas Titels?
The title by which Charles' spouse will be known on his accession is actually quite an important issue, and most certainly relevant and on topic. From the moment Charles becomes King, he and his wife will become a hot topic throughout the Commonwealth, if not the world. He will our King and if Camilla is not to be known as Queen Consort she will need another title. In those sad days when the Realms are mourning the loss of their beloved Queen, the press will need to refer to her as something other than Camilla Parker-Bowles. She will no longer be able to be referred to as Duchess of Cornwall because Kate will now hold that title.
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  #1436  
Old 02-17-2014, 03:46 AM
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In 2005, the intent might have been to refer to Camilla as Princess Consort because Camilla might not have wanted to be Queen Consort but..

In 2014, after working for the RF for nearly 9 years, she has confidence in herself and now is willing to accept the title of Queen Consort.

Everyone has to remember the time.
Too many people focus on Diana and fail to remember the Queen Mother. The Queen Mother was the last Queen Consort and she died in 2002 just a year later Camilla is living in her homes (Clarence House & Birkhall.)

Camilla might have been overwhelmed constantly being surrounded by the Queen Mother's ghost and her possessions.

And 2 years after moving into the Queen Mum's homes, she marries into the RF. Camilla might have felt very uncomfortable even thinking about considering taking the title of Queen Consort when she hadn't even settled into her homes & her life with the RF.
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  #1437  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
In 2005, the intent might have been to refer to Camilla as Princess Consort because Camilla might not have wanted to be Queen Consort but..

In 2014, after working for the RF for nearly 9 years, she has confidence in herself and now is willing to accept the title of Queen Consort.

Everyone has to remember the time.
Too many people focus on Diana and fail to remember the Queen Mother. The Queen Mother was the last Queen Consort and she died in 2002 just a year later Camilla is living in her homes (Clarence House & Birkhall.)

Camilla might have been overwhelmed constantly being surrounded by the Queen Mother's ghost and her possessions.

And 2 years after moving into the Queen Mum's homes, she marries into the RF. Camilla might have felt very uncomfortable even thinking about considering taking the title of Queen Consort when she hadn't even settled into her homes & her life with the RF.
You make some good points, a few of which I'd forgot to consider myself.

Well one way or another it will be sorted eventually.....just don't hold your breath if the government at the time is anything like our current one.
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  #1438  
Old 02-24-2014, 10:14 AM
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How likely is Charles to continue the same holiday patterns (Balmoral and Sandringham) as his mother?
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  #1439  
Old 02-24-2014, 10:48 AM
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How likely is Charles to continue the same holiday patterns (Balmoral and Sandringham) as his mother?
Charles and Camilla's love of Scotland and the Balmoral estate is well known. They already send the summer there, as well as New Year's. They are often up at Birkhall around the Easter period as well.

I have a feeling that Charles is not such a fan of Sandringham. He does not appear to spend much time there outside of a few days at Christmas, and short time in the summer when he and Camilla attend the Sandringham flower show. That said, that may well be because he probably did not want to take on another property on the estate for his use.
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  #1440  
Old 02-24-2014, 12:01 PM
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Recently thinking about Charles as King. I personally think that the under his rule, the Royal Family [including all the nieces, nephews, aunts & uncles] will be drastically cut to the bare bones when it comes to public events and money spent by them from the till. Privately, they will all still be family and enjoy certain perks, but certain activities by younger family members will not be favored and he will turn his back publically. I truly believe he will run a tight ship.
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